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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: GWH on December 27, 2006, 01:58:10 PM
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I am left handed. But I fly counter clock wise(like righties). I always have. Since the early days. Here is the problem: All my manuvers minus the outside loops start with me setting my feet with the plane about 1/3 to 2/3 before I make the manuver. Flying over my right side. I have always noticed a bobble in this section of level flight as I set up for the manuver. I am thinking of turning my next plane around to fly clock wise.. I am going to quick build a twister as a test. I know it will be ackward and weird at first. But all in all I hope to remove the bobble and let the plane come to me instead of me going away from the plane.
So, would there be any major issues besides turning everything around?
As most kits are built to fly counter-clock wise.
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GWH,
You are dead right! YES...a sympathetic ear at last! Me too lefty. My biggest problem is the overhead eight in the OTS pattern. When I made a minor fuss over my problem I was called everything but
*%#$. (By guess who, the "righties"). I had thought about doing the same thing years ago, but now pushing 70 I think it's too late! BTW, you might accomplish the same result by hand launching a Ringmaster or some other POS inverted with an upside down handle.
Regarding A/C design, asymetric wings will reverse, rudder offsets also and engine offsets as well...BUT Hal Debolt (and George also) stated many times that flying clockwise with the engine running counter clockwise eliminated/changed many torque issues therefore requiring different design and trimming!
Lemme know how it works out for you. WEVD@aol.com
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Left handers have a strong advantage in Speed, Racing, Carrier, and Combat, due to the natural advantage in whipping. Although I am naturally right-handed, I fly these events left-handed to the maximum possible extent. The safety thong limits this somewhat, but I still go left when I can. A good 5 MPH, consistantly.
As far as Clockwise Stunt, no need to build a plane. Just flip inverted after takeoff and give it a go. See what happens. A lot cheaper and easier than building a special plane.
My guess is: you'll finding that going through the pattern backwards screws you up a lot. I think I'll try it myself if the weather holds.
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I am a lefty that occasionally flies right handed and occasionally clockwise. i haven't had the problem that you are experiencing. i usually let the plane "catch up' to my front just before I start a maneuver though.
Bigiron ~^
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I'm left-handed but fly right-handed, dunno why...I've known and observed several lefties through the years and never noticed any inherent problems with it. I used to switch hands frequently in combat to avoid line tangles, but of course the "thong" ended that practice.
--Ray
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Hello,
I'm a lefty also. My biggest problem was the reverse wing over. I fixed it by leading the airplane 180 degrees when I start it and keep planted exactly in that spot until i'm finished. That allowed me to fly over the top with no bobbles. I don't have any problems with level flight before maneuvers. I do basically the same thing only not 180 degrees ahead. Only about 30 or so degrees, but that amount is not significant enough for me to loose any sight of the airplane or bobble.
Jim Pollock, Adacter et Strenue 8)
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Hello,
I'm a lefty also. My biggest problem was the reverse wing over. I fixed it by leading the airplane 180 degrees when I start it and keep planted exactly in that spot until i'm finished. That allowed me to fly over the top with no bobbles.
Jim Pollock, Adacter et Strenue 8)
Interesting...that is exactly the way I do it flying right-handed. Is that the secret everyone else is keeping so ya gotta figure it out for yourself? Not fair...
--Ray
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Thanks Jim and company
I do Plant every manuver. I have been called out several times on this bobble in comps. I do not think the judges took away points, but I am flying intermediate. Which gives a little lead way per say. I make it a point to try and discuss my scores with fellow flyers and judges. Me and my flying buddy are very critical of each other. We watch each others flights and discuss them even when just flying the pattern at the field. Heck I cant remember the last time I just goofed off a plane. Had to be back in 2000 lol.
I have tried shorting the distance from the plant position to where the plane is relative. But, that does not really give me time to set up and get a good plant.
I have heard of lefties turning their plane around and flying clockwise. I believe someone flew at the NATs or does now that flys "backwards" from the norm.
I know the easy part is just building the plane and making everything reversed. Now the question is the engine?
Usually we fly with the engine running counter-clock wise too. I believe the torque helps in line tension some?
In my case that torque would be to the inside of the circle and trying to push the plane in. Unless I counter it with offset.
Or do they make a "left" turning prop and I just break in and run the engine "backwards"??
Thanks
I am going to build a 1/2A this week and test this theory on clockwise flight.
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Actually the engine torque works against the "norm" counterclockwise flight, tending to torque the plane inward; it helps the line tension going clockwise. I've often wondered why and how the current "norm" came to be...you'd think, if counterclockwise flight was the preferred direction the engines would be built to rotate clockwise; if the engines for some reason need to run CCW then CW should have been the preferred flight direction. How did we end up with the worst possible combination? I'm sure there's a good logical reason, I just don't know what it is...
--Ray
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Thanks Minn,
Solves that issue:
If I had to venture a guess on why we fly counterclockwise. I would bet it is because most flyers are right handed and don't have to fly across their body
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FLY ACROSS THEIR BODY
That's the key!
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So why doesn't the typical CL engine run clockwise?
--Ray
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GWH answered all that when he/she stated right handed flyers. I was self taught and it seemed natural to me to use right hand. But, the best racing pilot I ever had was a left handed flyer. He could take a 35 lap airplane and get 40+ laps out of it. This was before shut-offs. DOC Holliday
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So why doesn't the typical CL engine run clockwise?
--Ray
I'm guessing but I'll bet it was a simple duplication of direction of rotation of the full size stuff. Gee maybe that's where the term "Model" comes from! Well most american engines rotate CW from the pilot seat.
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I fly left handed and believe that it is an advantage. That bobble before you start your manuever is often seen in intermediate competition left or right hand flyer. just work on getting rid of it.
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Frank,
That Bobble is being caused from me tucking the handle in close to my shoulder as I rotate slightly to set the plant to enter the manuver. It comes maybe 1/8 to 1/4 of the lap before I am setting up...I will try and make a diagram or quick drawing of the issue....i never bobble the outside loops...nor the overheads, etc....all level flight stuff coming in from counter-clockwise
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When I judge, I find the CW fliers (not many up here) difficult to judge. I try very hard not to allow it to reduce their score, but I really don't know if it does or not. As a result, I wouldn't recommend changing to CW, to solve this problem, and create another.
We have a few LH fliers who fly CCW. One is Dave Gardner, who isn't even left-handed. It seems strange, but apparently, Dave started out as a racing pilot, and never changed.
I don't see a significant difference between LH and RH for the RWO, with both flying CCW. Both RH & LH pilots need to get ahead of the model by 90 degrees, after all. The right handed flier has the same issue when hitting the inverted pullout, and again when hitting the upright pullout, and it doesn't seem a problem. I believe your problem has to be from one of two things, and that's up to you and your coach/OFB to discover. It's either you're not watching the model, while picking up your markers (Judges), or you're bumping your shoulder with your hand/handle. I'd also wonder if the model just doesn't groove well enough. Those are my thoughts, and I hope they help. :X Steve
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Steve
I did not remember that Dave Gardner flies left handed but is normally right handed. The reason may be ME. Dave and I flew together back about 1950 and being that I was 2 years older and left handed, Dave may have copied my flying technique. Hope not.
Clancy
PS: tell Dave "hi" for me and get him on Stunt Hangar.
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Hi Steve, Clancy.....
Sorry, Clancy, I didn't learn LH flying from you, and Steve, I was never much of a racing pilot! Even though right handed, I initially learned CL flying with a 'whip' airplane (no fishing pole, just whip it around) when I was 13, in 1950! After that, it just seemed to be the natural way to fly CL, even with CCW circular motion. (besides, if I whack my right hand starting, I can still fly!)
For the RWO, I make the first turn with my body about 45° to the crossover path, and step into the crosswind 'plant' as the plane climbs, and fly it over the top facing crossways to the wind. My left hand/arm is clear to make the inverted pullout and I fly the inverted path directly in front of me. As I approach the second vertical, I rotate my body CW to about 45° again, so the turn is relatively in front of me. I keep my feet planted, however, but rotate on the balls of my feet to accomodate the body turn. I fly over the top again, facing crosswind, then rotate out of the 'plant' just before the pullout to upright. I'm then facing the plane, with my left hand just leading the plane a bit.
The rest of the maneuvers are pretty much flown conventionally, since my left hand is pretty much in front of my body.
The extra 'pull' that the left hand flying gives has some benefits in some of the manuevers, especially stretching a landing!
Dave Gardner
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Dave
Thanks for letting me off the hook. I was worried that I might have caused you so much confusion.
Also, Welcome to Stunt Hangar. Take a walk around the park and see all the activity here, especially the "Chat Room".
Type at you later,
Clancy
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Jeez, Dave...I've always just watched your plane, but next chance, I'm gonna watch you do "the twist" during the RWO. Chubby Checker would be proud. LL~ Steve
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I am left handed. But I fly counter clock wise(like righties). I always have. Since the early days. Here is the problem: All my manuvers minus the outside loops start with me setting my feet with the plane about 1/3 to 2/3 before I make the manuver. Flying over my right side. I have always noticed a bobble in this section of level flight as I set up for the manuver. I am thinking of turning my next plane around to fly clock wise.. I am going to quick build a twister as a test. I know it will be ackward and weird at first. But all in all I hope to remove the bobble and let the plane come to me instead of me going away from the plane.
So, would there be any major issues besides turning everything around?
As most kits are built to fly counter-clock wise.
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In reply to # 16, I think you are judging this clockwise flyer better than you did in the beginning and I know it is easy to get you confused(just joking). if you fly clockwise and are right handed it is very hard to set up for the wingover because it is easier to fly the upside down portion in front of you. I have to be turned so I can start the first turn 90 degrees from the wind which puts the plane behind you. Some of us don't bend that far,but it keeps our bodies young and destroys our brain. Georg aldrich told me you can really whip that plane into a wingoverand he should know!