Control line pilot video

[big ron]

Saw a video of a control line pilot flying the pattern with a caption of the maneuver on top of video with pilot only in video can't seem to find it again any help

Found it posted by istvan travnik
Bell rank normal or reverse

[Shug Emery]

Little Googling and I found it for you. Never seen it myself...should be good study.
Shug

[big ron]

That's it I have watched your videos Shug they are great keep em coming

[Allan Perret]

Great study, 2 time worlds champion.  I'm not a big fan of his inverted hand position, but it obviously works for him.  Would like to see same video of the likes of Fitzgerald, Walker, Hunt, Buck, Berry, Moon, and RO.

[Allan Perret]

Bell rank normal or reverse

[Brian Massey]

I'm not a big fan of his inverted hand position, but it obviously works for him. 

I agree, constantly rotating your hand 90 degrees would really throw me off. I have enough to worry about just chewing gum.

Brian

[Igor Burger]

If you watch carefully, you will see that the handle is most time perpendicular to flying path, what makes controlling more precise and auto stabilizing, also during turns

just imagine vertically kept handle for example in wingover (must be turned 180 degrees on top what can lead to wavy path) versus hand turned 90 degrees during first turn and then follows all the way perpendicular to model allowing good controlling

[Randy Ryan]

If you watch carefully, you will see that the handle is most time perpendicular to flying path, what makes controlling more precise and auto stabilizing, also during turns

just imagine vertically kept handle for example in wingover (must be turned 180 degrees on top what can lead to wavy path) versus hand turned 90 degrees during first turn and then follows all the way perpendicular to model allowing good controlling

Edited for misplaced quote

I've never seen the palm down inverted position, I don't like the handle horizontal at all but it does work for him. The problem for me is that any change in rotational rate of my body, lateral movement of my arm or speed of the model (up wind vss downwind) results in an elevator input. Try flying high and hold your handle palm up. Stop rotating, hold your hand motionless and what happens? The model will fly on and begin to climb eventually looping and on its way inverted it will climb again looping, essentially flying a lazy eight around the stationary handle. With a combat model it will fly 8's.

But watch closely on the square maneuver bottoms, the down movement is VERY pronounced. Could be the control system, or flying characteristic of the model but the down deflections are very magnified in camparison to the up. Another thing I noticed is that in most cases it looks like his tops are over 45 degrees. I sure would like to see this done with more of the lines in the frame and the pattern flown perpendicular to the camera angle (or as near as possible). The angle here has the pilot's hand almost pointing at the camera at the outside ends of the 8's.

Still this is a great idea, and I think I may try to employ it for my own practice. It'll probably illustrate that I'm a real klutz!

[Igor Burger]

Whole body is turned 45 degrees toward the camera, you can see it on legs, that changes all angles and deflections.

[Alan Resinger]

I don't know how many times I've watched that video of Igor flying.  Over the years I've been fortunate to fly with a lot of the top Precision Aerobatic flyers and have spent considerable time observing their style.  Paul Walker and I have flown together for years and his style has always been with a vertical hand position throughout the pattern.  I have seen some other top level flyers with the horizontal hand position in inverted flight.  Ted Fancher immediately comes to mind.  Of the current crop of top level flyers, Fitz, Buck, Hunt, Rush, Cox all fly with the hand held vertical throughout the flight.  If I had to choose the most consistent advocate for this it would be Brett.  I love watching Brett fly. A lot of times I've watched him fly I don't even watch the model.  I marvel at his total conservation of physical effort.
As to Igor's flight on the video.  You don't get to win two F2B World Championships and two European Championships being anything but a consistently good pilot.  I've seen most of the available videos of his championships for the past few years and his patterns have shown that he flies patterns that have consistent bottom heights, proper sizes with tops of manoeuvers and intersections at 45 degrees and shapes and intersections as the rule book calls for.  
One little item I'll inject here.  I too fly with my hand in a horizontal position during inverted flight.  I do find one advantage to this in that it makes hitting intersection points easier for me in the reverse wingover and the square eight.  Let me explain.  Doing the wingover, I get ahead of the model just before being upwind and right in front of the judges so that I have my body facing 90 degrees to the wind.  I'm now in the physical body position I will stay in until the manoeuver is complete.  I start the inside turn and hopefully hit the turn at exactly 90 degrees.  Whatever you hit stay there or the judges are going to ding you if you change the path over the top.  Do your outside corner and fly the inverted half lap with the model right in front of you.  Now with my hand in the horizontal position I simply have to stop my arm movement thereby shortening the down line and the model makes the outside corner.  A properly trimmed model at the proper speed will then turn at the correct entry point and corner angle.  This is one of the reasons we practice so much.  I have to stop moving my arm at just the right point but for me it is easier than making the outside wrist hinging movement at just the right time.  This also works on the square eight.
I have always found the my own wrist movement was much more difficult on outside turns than insides so I suppose that is why I taught myself to fly this way.  I've tried to change but 50 plus years of flying has a way of making change difficult.    

[big ron]

Is there any good videos of the pilots that fly with hand vertical that show mostly pilots positions in video

Thanks

[john e. holliday]

Do a search on YouTube for some of the pilots.

[Randy Ryan]

Whole body is turned 45 degrees toward the camera, you can see it on legs, that changes all angles and deflections.

Yes, that makes it difficult to really see what's happening.

Down, 3rd corner of the outside squares, about the center of the turn.

Up, 4th corner of the inside squares, about the center of the turn.

Turn from inverted, second half of wingover, initiating the turn, in this case if we were perpendicular to the lines the wrist angle would be greater.

Both shots with lines near perpendicular to the line of sight og the camera. The hand twist may give the illusion, but if you look at the rotation of the wrist there a very noticable difference. However, mimicking these movements with my are and wrist, it appears this is an anatomical limitation. Makes me think about a biased handle again.

Looking at this again, the camera height is wrong to for really observing the geometry of the lines and hand,it should be at the pilot's shoulder level.

Tried to get a snip of level upright hand position but they're edited out and only the maneuvers are there.

Only my observations, I have a pretty good eye for shapes and angles.

[Igor Burger]

Randy, I think you are watching hand instead of that front bar on handle ... at least if I look to that bar in pull uouts in wingover (same place same situation, aproximately the same handle position), I see aproximately same deflection ... but we can still ask this guy, he flew it, so he can tell us if he feels asymetric response :- )))

[Randy Ryan]

Randy, I think you are watching hand instead of that front bar on handle ... at least if I look to that bar in pull uouts in wingover (same place same situation, aproximately the same handle position), I see aproximately same deflection ... but we can still ask this guy, he flew it, so he can tell us if he feels asymetric response :- )))

Thanks Igor. I am looking at the bar and the top two pictures show, at least to me, a pretty pronounced difference. That said, the way he turns his wrist sideways on the insides may only make is appear that way. His imput would really be interesting. I think I may try doing this myself and try ro get the camera angle at shoulder height and perpendicular to the center of the maneuvers. As I watch this over and over it looks more and more like a great coaching tool, self or otherwise.

[EddyR]

He will never go anywhere with that cabled handle

[Igor Burger]

the way he turns his wrist sideways on the insides may only make is appear that way. His imput would really be interesting.

Randy, depends who is that "he" so let me to say that I am that Igor from that video :- ))) , so you have my input ... Or if you mean "he" that second man, that is Keith R. However several people flew that model (most of them top 10 from WCh) and none of them reported asymetry ... but may be they just did not tell :- )))

[Randy Ryan]

Randy, depends who is that "he" so let me to say that I am that Igor from that video :- ))) , so you have my input ... Or if you mean "he" that second man, that is Keith R. However several people flew that model (most of them top 10 from WCh) and none of them reported asymetry ... but may be they just did not tell :- )))

"Randy, I think you are watching hand instead of that front bar on handle ... at least if I look to that bar in pull uouts in wingover (same place same situation, aproximately the same handle position), I see aproximately same deflection ... but we can still ask this guy, he flew it, so he can tell us if he feels asymetric response :- )))"


I confuse easily, this is your quote I refered to, I thought there were 2 different people!!! OK Thank you!

[Keith Renecle]

Randy, I think you are watching hand instead of that front bar on handle ... at least if I look to that bar in pull uouts in wingover (same place same situation, aproximately the same handle position), I see aproximately same deflection ... but we can still ask this guy, he flew it, so he can tell us if he feels asymetric response :- )))

Igor's handle and model set-up is very, very symmetrical. I did not have to compensate for any of the maneuvers. It was as easy as drawing the shapes in the air with your finger. I think that I mentioned before, that this model should be banned! javascript:void(0); This video was done by Attila Csontos, or as Igor calls him......the "Attila-razzi"!

Keith R

[Igor Burger]

Do not worry Keith, that model is already banned, new one is already trimmed, so the old one is permanently nailed on wall :- )))

[Howard Rush]

I hope you cleaned it first.

[Igor Burger]

Those bugs won WCh ... I cannot