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Author Topic: Leadout Wrapping  (Read 2727 times)

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Leadout Wrapping
« on: September 19, 2018, 02:48:45 PM »
Amazing how one thing leads to another.  As far back as I can remember I have wrapped my lines connectors and leadouts without using solder or glue.  I also only use a single loop on the eyelet.  This is to prevent creating hard spots and to let the connection tighten.  I even use as little heat as possible to shrink the heatshrink tubing(that I always get backwards).  With all the referencing I was doing over the Spectra thread I reread the steel line rules.  AMA requires a double loop and solder.
Why?  Both weaken the lines.(double loop not so much).

Ken
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Offline Alan Resinger

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2018, 04:00:35 PM »
I beieve that is a guideline and not a rule.  I know of very few competition flyers who would solder their line terminations.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 10:58:11 AM by Alan Resinger »

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 05:25:51 PM »
I beieve that is a guideline and not a rule.  I know of very few comptition flyers who would solder their line terminations.
Thanks - I hope so.  I will read it again.  I don't know any who solder.

Read it again - "Line construction shall be as per the methods described in Figures 1
through 4.  The CD can approve alternates but in his/her absence it appears to be a rule.

Ken
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 06:18:43 PM »
Thanks - I hope so.  I will read it again.  I don't know any who solder.

Read it again - "Line construction shall be as per the methods described in Figures 1
through 4.  The CD can approve alternates but in his/her absence it appears to be a rule.

Ken

Let's put it this way: everyone ignores that rule (!).  For pretty much the reasons you state.

It's been discussed here, long ago.  One of the points in that discussion is that the rule applies to lines, not leadouts.
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Offline Target

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 10:57:39 PM »
I think a little epoxy on the copper windings should be OK?
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Chris
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Offline Reptoid

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 11:22:45 PM »
Amazing how one thing leads to another.  As far back as I can remember I have wrapped my lines connectors and leadouts without using solder or glue.  I also only use a single loop on the eyelet.  This is to prevent creating hard spots and to let the connection tighten.  I even use as little heat as possible to shrink the heatshrink tubing(that I always get backwards).  With all the referencing I was doing over the Spectra thread I reread the steel line rules.  AMA requires a double loop and solder.
Why?  Both weaken the lines.(double loop not so much).

Ken
AMA does not REQUIRE solder. You need to re-read methods 1 thru 4 for line terminations. Read #3 closely y1
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       Don
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 11:45:43 PM »
AMA does not REQUIRE solder. You need to re-read methods 1 thru 4 for line terminations. Read #3 closely y1
True, you can use Epoxy which also creates a hard spot in the connection. 

Ken
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If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 11:58:14 PM »
I think a little epoxy on the copper windings should be OK?
On the surface - yes but you miss the point if you don't let the connection move.  It is impossible for the wrap to come off under tension but it can break.  If you create a hard spot so that it cannot slip when hit with a sudden pull it will snap at the joint.  Without some slip in the connection, vibration from the engine and vibration from wind pressure will gradually weaken the lines at the connection.  Allowing the connection to tighten under pressure then relax when the pressure is off lessens this.  Heat shrink over the copper will keep them in place.

Ken
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If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2018, 06:34:52 AM »
Here is how I do  my bellcrank.  Same thing on the leadouts.  I use clear heat shrink tubing.

https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/2012-stunter-thundervolt-a-build-log/msg233409/#msg233409

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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2018, 10:09:40 AM »
I use insulated magnet wire to do the wraps, and dip the ends in lacquer thinner to very slightly melt the insulation. It will still break the bonds enough to flex like a spring side-to-side but has a bit of connection to keep it from unwinding. I have also use a thin coat of Ambroid, too, doesn't stiffen it too much, or in many cases, nothing. DO NOT solder it and do not use any significant coat of epoxy.

     Brett

Offline Vitalis Pilkionis

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2018, 10:58:55 AM »
I quit using copper wire for wrapping leadouts and lines. I found spots of corrosion under copper wire on my mbs lines after last season. And I usually do not fly in rainy days.
This season I use braided fishing line on my new ukrainian lines and so far they hold very well. Another benefit of fishing line vs copper wire is much lower weight.


Vitalis

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2018, 12:33:39 PM »
I quit using copper wire for wrapping leadouts and lines. I found spots of corrosion under copper wire on my mbs lines after last season. And I usually do not fly in rainy days.
This season I use braided fishing line on my new ukrainian lines and so far they hold very well. Another benefit of fishing line vs copper wire is much lower weight.


Vitalis
Interesting, now I have a way to use all that Spectra we can't fly on!  Spectra can tolerate CA.  Do you use any of that to lock the place it is tied off?

Ken
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If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Online Lauri Malila

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2018, 12:46:39 PM »
Only problem is that Spectra line is impregnated with the coloured wax. It's like teflon, nothing sticks to it. Or maybe white lines don't have it. I'm not 100% sure.
Much better option is Kevlar thread, both for leadouts and other line ends. It's available from many free flight- or fly fishing material supplies.
It's much better than copper wire wrapping but I guess it can be a problem with your rules.
Btw, what does AMA rules say about leadouts soldered like in the picture? L

Offline Vitalis Pilkionis

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2018, 12:55:06 PM »
Interesting, now I have a way to use all that Spectra we can't fly on!  Spectra can tolerate CA.  Do you use any of that to lock the place it is tied off?


I use a small drop of thin CA just on a final knot, because braided line is a little slippery and a knot tends to get loose.
Then cover entire wrapping with Uhu por glue, let it to dry up and put heat shrink tube.
Of cource, one can use Kevlar thread, but I found braided line also to hold very well and quite easy to work with.


Vitalis

Offline Jim Mynes

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2018, 07:03:18 PM »
Only problem is that Spectra line is impregnated with the coloured wax. It's like teflon, nothing sticks to it. Or maybe white lines don't have it. I'm not 100% sure.
Much better option is Kevlar thread, both for leadouts and other line ends. It's available from many free flight- or fly fishing material supplies.
It's much better than copper wire wrapping but I guess it can be a problem with your rules.
Btw, what does AMA rules say about leadouts soldered like in the picture? L

I wouldn’t use any solder on those sutures.
I have seen the light, and it’s powered by a lipo.

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2018, 08:14:49 PM »
Are those knots in the thumb AMA authorized? Will the thumb handle the 10 G pull test?

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2018, 06:24:57 AM »
I quit using copper wire for wrapping leadouts and lines. I found spots of corrosion under copper wire on my mbs lines after last season.

Well, I cannot recall how many times I wrote it here - combination of different metals on such place will make electrochemical cell and electric current will make suchs pots and later line failure. Iron lines need iron or non conductuve wrapping material.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Leadout Wrapping
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2018, 08:52:07 PM »
In all the years I wrapped lines/lead outs I never used epoxy on them.  When trying to compete in F2C competition I had to learn a different way of wrapping and soldering the lines.   No room inside of wing for normal wraps.   But when the late Carl Shoupe put me onto swagging of lines I have not looked back until yesterday.   I finished up a set of .015 for a plane I was hoping to fly today.  But when granddaughter thinks she needs the car more what can I do.   So today after cutting up several tubes of copper tubing I made three sets of .018 lines for my combat planes.  Also marked them and put in baggies with associated handle.  Add to that a set of lines for the Lancet I have been having fun with.   Now to get out and put them to use. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
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