Latest ama magazine

[Dane Martin]

Jim, ya know I loves ya. ... but to that point. .
Much like others here, I have sent in several articles. In fact, if there's one thing I'm "known" for, it's applying iron on covering. Not saying I'm good at it, but people seem to think I do ok and I comment on it a lot. Any how, I've sent article's about getting started in iron on, build articles, new kit build articles etc etc. I have received positive responses, but I've never been published in the AMA mag.
So I think a lot of us are trying to pitch in. But, it's a little discouraging to never see your work make the cut!

[Randy Cuberly]

I'm sorry for being negative about this whole thing.  However, I really don't logically see any future for "Model Aviation".

When the current generation expires (perhaps as much as 20 years but probably closer to 12-15) model aviation will exist only in very small pockets with very little support from any current organization, especially the AMA!

I thought for a long time that only Control Line and Free Flight were in the last throws of existence but recent trips to several R/C flying fields have convinced me that it is also on it's way OUT. 

I suspect that the AMA feels the same way I do and are grasping at anything (Drones) to stretch their existence a few more years.  Personally I don't think that will work because I don't think the "Drone folks" are interested in any controlling organization!  At least the ones I have talked to were not!  Most of these guys are simply interested in the technology and in advancing that!   They are not really interested in the idea of flight or competition or the "sport" of flying the things.

It's is a very different world now than the one I grew up in.  I admit I really do not understand it and often wish I could go back to the old one!  Hmmmm...does that make me Crazy, or just old and stupid!

Randy Cuberly

[Jim Carter]

Jim, ya know I loves ya. ... but to that point. .
Much like others here, I have sent in several articles. In fact, if there's one thing I'm "known" for, it's applying iron on covering. Not saying I'm good at it, but people seem to think I do ok and I comment on it a lot. Any how, I've sent article's about getting started in iron on, build articles, new kit build articles etc etc. I have received positive responses, but I've never been published in the AMA mag.
So I think a lot of us are trying to pitch in. But, it's a little discouraging to never see your work make the cut!

Bro Dane, I know what you're saying.  Heck, I to have attempted to submit articles with no success, to date but I s'pose, other than the subject matter, my writing or composition just didn't make the cut or maybe it was the quality of the photos or selection of photos  !  Years ago, when I was on active duty I received a respectful rejection letter from a different magazine explaining that what I had submitted was good and interesting but it was too long and was too involved for them to edit thus if I wanted to rework it to meet their tight page, space, photographic and advertising requirements I was welcome to resubmit  .  Yeah, my "pride" was a bit smited and I was somewhat insulted but I understood what was being said  .  Apparently, I've made the same errors in a couple of submission to the AMA mag as well, I 'spose, but I never found out why and as such, again, I .... I chose not to resubmit  !  Lazy, maybe, insulted, maybe, thought it was good enough, sure, would the composition have been of a style and quality that met their (AMA) publishing standards and even the standards and expectations of the other 99% of readers .... we'll never know because I gave up .

On the other hand, I believe they, AMA Mag, pays a stipend for articles published, don't they  ?  Well, if that's true, what and why should they pay for my or any "sub-par" articles?  I'm sure you wouldn't nor would most editors pay for what doesn't meet what the "public/customer/reader"base wants and it is they, just as the boss on your job, who set the minimum standards and expectations for you to get your paycheck.  Ya' don't have to like or agree with 'em but .... sometimes, as Curtis said "the captain will not listen."   

[Jim Carter]

I'm sorry for being negative about this whole thing.  However, I really don't logically see any future for "Model Aviation"....  It's is a very different world now than the one I grew up in.  I admit I really do not understand it and often wish I could go back to the old one!  Hmmmm...does that make me Crazy, or just old and stupid!

Randy Cuberly

Yep!  Mr. C, I think we're in 'da same boat and da' leaks are comin' faster an' faster!  By the way can I borrow your "Mae West"??   
(p.s. I bet half the readers of this don't even know what one is!! 

[curtis mattikow]

I'm sorry for being negative about this whole thing.  However, I really don't logically see any future for "Model Aviation".

When the current generation expires (perhaps as much as 20 years but probably closer to 12-15) model aviation will exist only in very small pockets with very little support from any current organization, especially the AMA!

I thought for a long time that only Control Line and Free Flight were in the last throws of existence but recent trips to several R/C flying fields have convinced me that it is also on it's way OUT. 

I suspect that the AMA feels the same way I do and are grasping at anything (Drones) to stretch their existence a few more years.  Personally I don't think that will work because I don't think the "Drone folks" are interested in any controlling organization!  At least the ones I have talked to were not!  Most of these guys are simply interested in the technology and in advancing that!   They are not really interested in the idea of flight or competition or the "sport" of flying the things.

It's is a very different world now than the one I grew up in.  I admit I really do not understand it and often wish I could go back to the old one!  Hmmmm...does that make me Crazy, or just old and stupid!

Randy Cuberly

I agree with everything you say, except...it's not NEGATIVE.  It's just ACCEPTING THE REALITY that we are in.  I am a serious RC flyer.  Beleive me when I tell you RC is dying rapidly, it's not your imagination.  In ten years, we will be lucky if there are HALF the people flying RC.  Just how it is.
But I ACCEPT that.
What you say about AMA grasping at drones is RIGHT ON. 
They are a big organization now, they take in about ten million dollars a year, plenty of salaries, plenty of travel expense accounts(`14000 a year for each of those unpaid VPs), all that at stake...they are no longer about models, they are about PRESERVING THE ORGANIZATION.
Me...I'm OKAY if the organization and membership shrank by half.  It's inevitable.

[curtis mattikow]

Bro Dane, I know what you're saying.  Heck, I to have attempted to submit articles with no success, to date but I s'pose, other than the subject matter, my writing or composition just didn't make the cut or maybe it was the quality of the photos or selection of photos  !  Years ago, when I was on active duty I received a respectful rejection letter from a different magazine explaining that what I had submitted was good and interesting but it was too long and was too involved for them to edit thus if I wanted to rework it to meet their tight page, space, photographic and advertising requirements I was welcome to resubmit  .  Yeah, my "pride" was a bit smited and I was somewhat insulted but I understood what was being said  .  Apparently, I've made the same errors in a couple of submission to the AMA mag as well, I 'spose, but I never found out why and as such, again, I .... I chose not to resubmit  !  Lazy, maybe, insulted, maybe, thought it was good enough, sure, would the composition have been of a style and quality that met their (AMA) publishing standards and even the standards and expectations of the other 99% of readers .... we'll never know because I gave up .

On the other hand, I believe they, AMA Mag, pays a stipend for articles published, don't they  ?  Well, if that's true, what and why should they pay for my or any "sub-par" articles?  I'm sure you wouldn't nor would most editors pay for what doesn't meet what the "public/customer/reader"base wants and it is they, just as the boss on your job, who set the minimum standards and expectations for you to get your paycheck.  Ya' don't have to like or agree with 'em but .... sometimes, as Curtis said "the captain will not listen."   

Like I said...I published about 100 model airpane magazine articles...including many to Model Aviation.  Even five in one issue, many under different names.  But EVERY ONE was submitted with the correct format, language, photos, and the like.  They simply do not want to mess around with a lot of editing.  Submitting an article CORRECTLY is part of the author's job.
Yes, they do pay for articles. 
I have not submitted anything in years(it just got old, and most of the mags folded) so I do not know what the current pay rate is.

[Dane Martin]

For the record; the articles I submitted were in the correct format. I was asked a few clarifying questions, then a few they said, "these are perfect for the magazine". "We'll let you know when they will be included". I don't care about the money. I'm just saying, everyone says, no one is submitting articles. That's why there's no CL articles. I am just disagreeing with that statement.

Respectfully, of course. And, I don't doubt at all that less articles are being submitted. But the ones we do submit are not as cool, I suppose.

[Jim Carter]

For the record; the articles I submitted were in the correct format. I was asked a few clarifying questions, then a few they said, "these are perfect for the magazine". "We'll let you know when they will be included". I don't care about the money. I'm just saying, everyone says, no one is submitting articles. That's why there's no CL articles. I am just disagreeing with that statement.

Oh! Okay, my bad!!  Jus' that I figured I may have screwed up my compositions in someway and "jacked" myself.  However, like you, I didn't give a hoot about the money .... I wanted to see "my name" in print!!  Love 'dem braggin rights!!  Didn't happen but like the late Muhammad Ali said, ".... look at me; I’m still pretty.’" 

[curtis mattikow]

For the record; the articles I submitted were in the correct format. I was asked a few clarifying questions, then a few they said, "these are perfect for the magazine". "We'll let you know when they will be included". I don't care about the money. I'm just saying, everyone says, no one is submitting articles. That's why there's no CL articles. I am just disagreeing with that statement.

Respectfully, of course. And, I don't doubt at all that less articles are being submitted. But the ones we do submit are not as cool, I suppose.

The thing about formatting submissions properly was for Jim Carter, not you....
The thing about nobody submitting articles...well...yeah, as you say...people do.  That's not to say that back in the heyday of many magazines they were not always struggling to fill the issue...quite often there was never enough suitable outside material, and the truth is most model magazines were filled with articles by the same few authors, the ones that consistently did the work, and quite often, they used many pseudonyms so that the table of contents would not look stupid with five articles by the same author.
As you say, though, it's not lack of material, it's an editorial choice for Model Aviation Magazine to suck.

[curtis mattikow]

Oh! Okay, my bad!!  Jus' that I figured I may have screwed up my compositions in someway and "jacked" myself.  However, like you, I didn't give a hoot about the money .... I wanted to see "my name" in print!!  Love 'dem braggin rights!!  Didn't happen but like the late Muhammad Ali said, ".... look at me; I’m still pretty.’" 

All those VP district news columns are dead wasted space to me...but people like them, because they get to see their picture plane and name there.  People like that, everybody likes to see their name in print...even today, it has more mental impact than the web.

[Jim Carter]

As you say, though, it's not lack of material, it's an editorial choice for Model Aviation Magazine to suck.

WOW!  You're quick!!    Now please don't get upset with me because I know I don't have anywhere near the "smarts/knowledge/experience" to do what I'm about to ask you.  But .... IF you were the editor (I accept and realize you probably wouldn't want the job) but I'm curious .... what would you change, say, in the latest edition?  What would the table of contents look like?  How would you incorporate the varied interests of so many different genres and yet avoid the .... "editorial choice for Model Aviation Magazine to suck."? 

[curtis mattikow]

WOW!  You're quick!!    Now please don't get upset with me because I know I don't have anywhere near the "smarts/knowledge/experience" to do what I'm about to ask you.  But .... IF you were the editor (I accept and realize you probably wouldn't want the job) but I'm curious .... what would you change, say, in the latest edition?  What would the table of contents look like?  How would you incorporate the varied interests of so many different genres and yet avoid the .... "editorial choice for Model Aviation Magazine to suck."? 

I would run articles about master modellers and the planes they have done, articles about America's Hobby Center, about Berkeley models, about Walter Umland handmade control line kits, about how to carve pilot figures, a review of a long out of production sterling stuka, full monthly control line and free flight columns, editorials about how our hobby is fading, all stuff that would not please everyone.  I would not TRY to please everyone.  I would just try to make it great.
And I would get fired right away!
PS after being on the internet since before Al Gore was born...nothing on the internet upsets me anymore, ever.

[Fred Cronenwett]

I am coming from the point of view of writing a column for model aviation and feature articles for the magazine. Several points need to be said out loud. If you have good photographs (High resolution, not the small versions) or information send them to the right columnist, believe they love getting good photos and information sent to them. think of it this way.... You have a great contest and send pictures and contest report to a columnist (stunt news, model aviation, etc) and it gets published. Then someone reads it and says hey maybe I should go to that contest next year, it's called free advertising.

1) The advertising money that model Aviation gets is not what it use to be, because of that that will require some changes

2) I rarely get photos or contest reports that I can put into the CL scale column. The only material I have is material that I have shot myself at the contest or I have asked for someone to take some pictures and record the results. If I didn't have lots of my own material I wouldn't have anything for the CL Scale column.

3) I had a feature article published on the CL Speed F2A world cup recently and I am currently working on another article for 2019 covering Buder Park. Send the idea in with the topic and what you plan on covering. It is possible with the right material assuming you have good photographs and writing to go along with the topic.

4) The VP columns are good to have, it's a great spot for clubs within the district to get items printed up and out there.


Fred Cronenwett
CL Scale Model Aviation Column

[Will Hinton]

To tag on to Randy Cubberly's post which is so well written, and then to incorporate Curtis' reply about even r/c losing people; we are coming to the place where airplanes and flight no longer have the romantic draw for young people they used to have.  When I was active in aviation I would have worked for bed and food only because I was that enthralled by the wonderful flying machines.  (Almost did for about a year.)
Those magnifecent machines just captivated us, didn't they?  Now that romance is all but gone. 
A good friend of mine in Scotland is working hard to try and draw young people to the trades involved because his study shows that many airlines are having a hard time finding new pilots and new support people.
I don't know how accurate his figures are, but they show a tremendous shortage possible in the next several years.  If that is because the draw is gone, and if we modelers are growing old and dying off, (All of you but me) then the hobby is truly in trouble.
Let's face it, things are changing, and we can't stop it.  So what's the answer?  Ya got me, all I know is I no longer see youngsters running out into the yard to watch Piper Tri-Pacers fly over and be dreaming of when they could be flying one.  So if that interest isn't there, why would they fly models?

It's sad, at least to me, and maybe a little bit of a helpless feeling accompanies it.

[kevin king]

 Just build a control line quad / drone.

[curtis mattikow]

To tag on to Randy Cubberly's post which is so well written, and then to incorporate Curtis' reply about even r/c losing people; we are coming to the place where airplanes and flight no longer have the romantic draw for young people they used to have.  When I was active in aviation I would have worked for bed and food only because I was that enthralled by the wonderful flying machines.  (Almost did for about a year.)
Those magnifecent machines just captivated us, didn't they?  Now that romance is all but gone. 
A good friend of mine in Scotland is working hard to try and draw young people to the trades involved because his study shows that many airlines are having a hard time finding new pilots and new support people.
I don't know how accurate his figures are, but they show a tremendous shortage possible in the next several years.  If that is because the draw is gone, and if we modelers are growing old and dying off, (All of you but me) then the hobby is truly in trouble.
Let's face it, things are changing, and we can't stop it.  So what's the answer?  Ya got me, all I know is I no longer see youngsters running out into the yard to watch Piper Tri-Pacers fly over and be dreaming of when they could be flying one.  So if that interest isn't there, why would they fly models?

It's sad, at least to me, and maybe a little bit of a helpless feeling accompanies it.

Well said. 
And therein lies the crux of the matter.  No new blood.  And that will not change.  So...that is the shrinking model airplane future we are left with.  I accept it.  In my eyes...AMA is here to serve you and I and all the crusty old dying farts to built it.  They are not here to serve and save themselves...they are here to service US.

[Dan McEntee]

I've been a life long member of the AMA, even when I wasn't active in modeling here and there.

The AMA isn't run by robots, it's run by great people and I strongly believe they know exactly what they are doing.

And they have reasons for everything they do.

       I don't believe this for one second. Out of all the photos that we have been bombarded with from you, none of the models have sported an AMA number. But I guess it doesn't matter since you never fly anything. And as far as the rest of your statement, you obviously haven't had many dealings with the AMA. I would be interested in hearing you back up this statement with facts and other observations, if you please.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[curtis mattikow]

       I don't believe this for one second. Out of all the photos that we have been bombarded with from you, none of the models have sported an AMA number. But I guess it doesn't matter since you never fly anything. And as far as the rest of your statement, you obviously haven't had many dealings with the AMA. I would be interested in hearing you back up this statement with facts and other observations, if you please.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

 I don't know Aviojet from Adam, but...
I don't put my AMA number on my models, EVER.  Never have. As a matter of fact, I recently dropped my AMA membership.
These days...I build a TON of planes and rarely fly them.  Just where my head is at these days, what I enjoy.
As far as his dealings with the AMA, I have no idea, but....while I myself(and I guess YOU) are disgusted with the AMA, the vast majority of AMA members are NOT...you and I are the minority, so it's not really helpful to go after a fellow modeller just because they do not share your view about the AMA.
Even though you and I are RIGHT!

[Dwayne]

I don't know Aviojet from Adam, but...
I don't put my AMA number on my models, EVER.  Never have. As a matter of fact, I recently dropped my AMA membership.
These days...I build a TON of planes and rarely fly them.  Just where my head is at these days, what I enjoy.
As far as his dealings with the AMA, I have no idea, but....while I myself(and I guess YOU) are disgusted with the AMA, the vast majority of AMA members are NOT...you and I are the minority, so it's not really helpful to go after a fellow modeller just because they do not share your view about the AMA.
Even though you and I are RIGHT!

Look at how many posts Dan and Avio have, they've been here a long time, there's history here...lol

[Avaiojet]

       I don't believe this for one second. Out of all the photos that we have been bombarded with from you, none of the models have sported an AMA number. But I guess it doesn't matter since you never fly anything. And as far as the rest of your statement, you obviously haven't had many dealings with the AMA. I would be interested in hearing you back up this statement with facts and other observations, if you please.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

The Avenger pattern ship.

Scratch built from plans, sheeted foam wings, sheeted stab and elevator.

Fiberglass cloth applied with Polyester resin. Auto primer and all auto base coat colors.

Brushed hand lettering with black 1-Shot enamel sign painter's paint.  Authentic 23K applied gold leaf. British graphics are Don's Brushing Lacquers. Finished with DuPont 2 part automotive clear coat.

I believe an OS with a tuned pipe. And this was my work 36 years ago. 

Who said you can't troll with a photo, I do it all the time. 

Oh, and the last thing I want is to be part of your pathetic self gratifying CL fraternity.

I love being the Donald J. Trump of the Forum.

AMA No. 007, 

[curtis mattikow]

Look at how many posts Dan and Avio have, they've been here a long time, there's history here...lol

Oh...I don't need to look up their posts to see that...I've been on the internet since 1942...I know the drill...they are DUELLISTS.  Back and forth forever.  I've BEEN that guy, and actually suffered serious real world consequences from it, which I cannot get into.  I mean, serious.  It was a lesson that you do NOT know who you are really dealing with online and they may seem like one thing and end up being quite another.  Me, I don't want to argue online anymore.  Those guys, if they enjoy it, have at it. 

[Avaiojet]

Oh...I don't need to look up their posts to see that...I've been on the internet since 1942...I know the drill...they are DUELLISTS.  Back and forth forever.  I've BEEN that guy, and actually suffered serious real world consequences from it, which I cannot get into.  I mean, serious.  It was a lesson that you do NOT know who you are really dealing with online and they may seem like one thing and end up being quite another.  Me, I don't want to argue online anymore.  Those guys, if they enjoy it, have at it.

Curtis,

With all due respect.

I never asked to be Trolled and I never trolled first. Sometimes I just defend when the troll is a blatant lie but now I mostly ignore the trolling Posts.

 As far as Dan, he's like a left over troll, most others, still a few though, have given up and stopped for whatever the reason.

A good thing actually because the Forum reads better. The Forum has been "cleaned up" of most of the trolling and bullying towards Avaiojet over the past 7 years or so.

There's absolutely no honest reason a modeler can give, as to why they elect to troll or bully another modeler, without looking pathetic.

Don't we have enough problems with "division" in America?

Why bring this to the Forum? This does absolutely nothing to promote model aviation or CL.

How long have I been saying this?

[curtis mattikow]

Curtis,

With all due respect.

I never asked to be Trolled and I never trolled first. Sometimes I just defend when the troll is a blatant lie but now I mostly ignore the trolling Posts.

 As far as Dan, he's like a left over troll, most others, still a few though, have given up and stopped for whatever the reason.

A good thing actually because the Forum reads better. The Forum has been "cleaned up" of most of the trolling and bullying towards Avaiojet over the past 7 years or so.

There's absolutely no honest reason a modeler can give, as to why they elect to troll or bully another modeler, without looking pathetic.

Don't we have enough problems with "division" in America?

Why bring this to the Forum? This does absolutely nothing to promote model aviation or CL.

How long have I been saying this?

It's not a problem at all for ME...you can ignore trolls, you can pick up your Dungeons and Dragons broadsword and BATTLE them, or you can, as you say...MOSTLY ignore them!  None of it bothers me...I know what it's like to have picked up a relentless enemy online, and the consequences I have paid have been worst than any you might suffer for sure.  You might enjoy the wrassling, I dunno.  But I recognized his post for what it was, no fear.
Gorgeous model...don't know or care if you flew it or not...as I said...I build TONS of models I never bother to fly.  I count TEN on the wall of this one room I am in I have built over the past two years and never flew.  So what?

[Jim Carter]

I don't know Aviojet from Adam, but...
I don't put my AMA number on my models, EVER.  Never have. As a matter of fact, I recently dropped my AMA membership.
These days...I build a TON of planes and rarely fly them.  Just where my head is at these days, what I enjoy.
As far as his dealings with the AMA, I have no idea, but....while I myself(and I guess YOU) are disgusted with the AMA, the vast majority of AMA members are NOT...you and I are the minority, so it's not really helpful to go after a fellow modeller just because they do not share your view about the AMA.
Even though you and I are RIGHT!

I usually don't put my AMA number (L-7921) on my planes either  !  Heck, when it hits the dirt .... the guys already know who did it by the sound of the Richter Scale!!   

[Fredvon4]

Screw all this ---I am kind ticked at the notion that WE need to provide the folder and feed for the RAG ah er so called magazine...usually gratis

The AMA is as much a multi million dollar industry as the Harley Owners group or Road and Track or any of other Hobby past time venture

In my dumb youth-- a few 5 years ago-- I subscribed to about 12 magazines

Each has a staff , editors, and reporters that get paid

On my Motorcycle mags I followed
As well as my Ham radio mags
As well as my Hot rod mags
As well as EEA
As well as Boating
As well as Golf

 many reporters who make the treks every year to all the big and small events and photographed and wrote.....so WTF AMA?

[Robert Zambelli]

I had NO IDEA that my post would draw such and interesting array of responses.
Yes, it seems like most people are totally against this absurd attempt to indoctrinate us to favor drones.

And yes, they have their place - surveillance, arial photography etc, etc.
But, they ARE NOT model airplanes - no way, no way.
They are just electronic toys and, in my opinion, DO NOT belong in a publication entitled Model Aviation.
The comment that they are the "future" of model aviation was ridiculous.

I've read all the responses and agree with most.
Although I consider the response "The AMA isn't run by robots, it's run by great people and I strongly believe they know exactly what they are doing. And they have reasons for everything they do" some sort of asinine attempt to defend the ama, the poster has his first amendment right to express himself, no matter how absurd it sounds.

I personally do not like the ama nor do I like the people who run it.
This goes back a ways to when I had a huge collection of models built by a master modeler/engineer from Quakertown, PA.
I planned to donate them to the ama museum.
I called, left messages, wrote letters and sent e-mails.
NOT ONE RESPONSE. They would not even return my phone calls.
Yes, some bozo on this very sight attempted to justify their behavior, saying how busy they were and cannot be bothered.
BULL****! NOBODY is too busy to type a simple response like NO THANK YOU.

A while back, I posted a picture of the stupid ama sticker I received, showing an R/C plane, a jet, a helicopter and a drone.
Of course someone, again on this site, stated that the plane could represent C/L.
Again, BULL****.

I'm a member for one reason: I like to attend the occasional contest.
Please, to all - continue the dialog.
You've all given great "food for thought"!

Bob Z.

[FLOYD CARTER]

Some years ago, when Bill Northrop's "Model Builder" magazine ceased publication, I found I had a complete collection of every issue;  several boxes full.

I called MA Headquarters and talked with the "Head Curator" (no name, please).  I offered to donate the complete set to the museum.

He said, "Sure, send them".

Now, I'm all for making contributions to a good cause, but shipping for me would have run into the hundreds of $$$.

I guess they were not interested.  My collection went to recycling.

[Dan McEntee]

   Some one mentioned in another thread that they should be focusing on the FRV aspect of this issue. That is really the problem. If there were no FPV or it was strictly regulated, that would eliminate the "toy" aspect of issue and put it squarely into the professional realm of operation. Years ago, when taking any kind of video from an R/C model, especially a transmitted TV signal, you had to have a special FCC license . As the technology expanded so rapidly, the license requirement went away, I guess, so we have the FCC to put some of the blame on. I don't understand why the AMA doesn't try to go for the trifecta and bring R/C cars under their umbrella. That is a similar market and mind set as the quadcopter crowd as far as I'm concerned. At least R/C cars and trucks look like something that I can go elsewhere and watch. And the R/C boat guys also. I was just flipping through the latest issue and saw the column by Chad Budreau on the subject of the FAA requiring a transponder on ANYTHING that flies. Toys, models, frisbees, quads, they are really trying to put a blanket over everything. They used the term, "remotely identified."  So far the brain trust at the AMA has not managed to get through to the FAA that models operated by hobbyists as they have been for so long by means of the line of site practice and proper registration of the pilot/operator with the AMA  and have the AMA number displayed on the aircraft, they are already remotely identified. This is partially what you get when you have just "people" in charge of the organization who were hired because they submitted a resume. I sometimes wonder if it possible to change things and right the ship. I think instead of embracing the quad copter crowd, they should be pushing good old fashioned modeling, like a lot of us old timers have been saying. To a couple of generations, it's something that they don't know exists. A whole new market. Preach the simplicity and wholesomeness of it. There is already a lot of stuff on you tube about basic models such and rubber powered F/F and even control line. It seems in the presentations that the people posting the videos don't have a clue as to what the AMA is. Why isn't that an aspect of current technology explored  instead of embracing the quad copter crowd, which will eventually shrink on it's own now that the newness of it is wearing off and it becomes passe to the millennials and they look for the next big thing. I'm curious to see what the sales of these things will look like after the Christmas season is over. I'll bet that they aren't as hot as they have been over the last couple of years, and the numbers that the AMA is hoping to see from it just isn't there.So much for quads being the future of model aviation!
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[JoeJust]

Anybody miss "Control Line World" yet?
Joe Just

[Tony Drago]

Some years ago i was at a large C/L contest. A officer of the AMA came to the contest to present an award. As he and his entourage walked by. I heard him say I want to get this over with. I do not want to stay around these control liners and this contest any longer then i have to.
 His name. Well here are his initials. D.B.

[Chuck_Smith]

Nothing Changes

The most interesting part to me is they have all drones and helis, but when you go to the page with member's projects what do you see? Wood airplanes. That right there is evidence of how out of touch the AMA has become.

But it's not new. I was  recently perusing through my collection of AAM, MAN, an R/C Modeler from the early 70's. Controline was almost non-existent in AAM and MAN by that time. What little controline they did cover was usually carrier, scale and speed, you know, all the stuff the average guy flies - LOL!

What you do see however, is lots of R/C cars and Boats.

If I were king:

1) The AMA would sell the property they own. It's unnecessary in today's work-from-home world where we all have smartphones, tablets and Dick Tracey watches.
 
2) The NATs would return to the old format of moving around the country. It does a lot to promote the hobby and introduces everyone to all aspects of the hobby. I'm a member of a club with over 100 members and I'll bet most of them have never seen a "real" controline plane fly, much less a free-flight. Back in the day we would all descend upon some city and get all kinds of TV coverage and we'd make a positive impact on the local economy. It was great for the hobby.

3) I would encourage clubs to drop the "fun fly" format and instead focus on "Discover Model Aviation" days. You can still have all the fun flying you want but you could attract new participants, or introduce current modelers to different aspects of the hobby. It always makes me chuckle up here in north that most modelers do nothing from November to April, yet there are myriad places to fly indoor free flight. Which, by the way, is really fun and costs almost nothing.

Anyway, sell the property. It's the thing that's causing the issues. I pay my dues to the AMA to have support for my local flying club, not to service a place in the middle of nowhere that most members will never see.

Chuck

[Tony Drago]

The AMA property is a Very Expensive Anchor. Just Dead Weight.
  Also it is a Symbol of Prestige for all their Over Inflated Ego's.
 The hobby should be taken to the people. Not for the people to come to them..

[Frank Imbriaco]

Wish I could believe that there is still a kid out there who reads Model Aviation in bed way past his official "lights out" hour.

[Jim Kraft]

The old Air Trails magazine was the one I use to drool on in study hall in school. That, and old Scrambler motorcycle mags. Air Trails had some of all modeling activities including solid models, boats, tether cars, and all flying models. The Air Trails annual had tons of info on the planes that were being flown at the NATS. The control line section told what and how many coats of dope, what prop, glow plug, starting battery, covering, fuel, and engine used.

They had no glossy color pages, but what they did have was inspiration. But, that was a different world. Maybe just because we were young and blown away by what was happening on the modeling scene. But, for many of us it has been a life long love affair.

Lets face it, we have never grown up. Not sure when i go to fly I am not that same kid stringing out my lines the same as I did then. As my kids tell me, what goes around comes around, or I have come full circle. I did fly R/C Pattern competition for 25 years  before coming back to control line.


The hobby aspect has changed so much over the last 10 years that it is almost unrecognizable. It has morfed into something else. I remember the smell of the wood when you opened a model box of the latest Scientific Hollow log plane. I built them on the living room floor after putting news paper down. I ran OK Cubs in the basement. Actually, my first powerd model was a Half Pint race car that I had to build the tank from brass sheet. That was my first OK Cub .049. I hopped it up later with and .074 I traded something for. I did a lot of trading to get what I wanted as even though I worked at lots of different jobs, I never seem to have any money. When I was 14, I traded a 37 Chevy, a Winchester 12 ga, single shot, and $20,00 for my first Harley. A 1942 "45" Flat Head.

Well, enough of my ramblng which is not going to bring back those fun days where we were all model builders. But I still have remnants of the past. I have a box of 1/2 A engines from those days. I have since accumulated a lot of engines, mostly old iginition engines that I drooled over in the hobby shop windows and at the school ground and the park in the 40's.

Now, FAA has taken over the whole activity. No one under the age of 16 can take the test for the certifcate to fly. There are schools poping up to help people to pass the test. As Ed says on Last man standing. Whats happening?

[Fredvon4]

Anybody miss "Control Line World" yet?
Joe Just


Hey Joe...I sure the hell do!

[john e. holliday]

I too miss "Control Line World".   


Had to correct spelling as this key board and my mind plus fingers don't agree at times.

[Andre Ming]

Wish I could believe that there is still a kid out there who reads Model Aviation in bed way past his official "lights out" hour.

LOL!

You did that too??

I remember one summer I was so revved up about C/L that I would stay up until 3 AM working on airplanes and reading American Modeler. Fun times.

Andre

[john e. holliday]

My Dad and Mom didn't say any thing about me reading Air Trails or any model plane magazine or even working on planes past bed time as long as home work was done and I got up in time for school.   Not fun walking the 2 miles when Dad would leave for work because I didn't get up in time.  Of course I was in better shape back then.

[Jim Carter]

  Yeah, now I know some of you guys are just venting for the sake of venting and "spinning" other folks up!  Honestly, y'all know some of the ideas put forth just aren't in the realm of "Can Do" .... ever, ever again  .  For example, a "mobile NAT's" .... really??  Where would/could it be held?  How many state and local licenses, noise waivers, FAA altitude waivers, etcetera would be required?  What kinds of costs, land rental, insurance, security, police, on-site medical support would be encountered and required?  Where are there clubs sufficient in size and membership plus volunteers to provide the local manpower?  Yeah, enough money can make anything happen but where's it coming from .... entry fees .... really?  Y'all don't want to pay dues for membership to the organization that is at least "trying" (though many will still say that's not true) !!  How many of us old foggies would even attend?  Y'all know y'all AIN'T gonna pay $150 - $200 per event entry fee plus the drive, hotel, food expenses and so forth to cover even the very basic expenses of any organization hosting such an event for a plastic or wooden trophy  !!

More than that, where are the young folks coming from?  As much as y'all talk about it, there's probably only a handful of us with the time, patience, demeanor or even the desire to work with and teach some of the young folks today, yes?? no??  It's a "hoot" reading all the ragging about the content and or perceived usefulness of a one of the last surviving "in-print" magazines that could possibly spur some, some, self-motivated young people to embrace this hobby/sport, just as those magazines of the past spurred me and you    Yet because of the flood of new and specialized content, so many of y'all want to make it go away too HAA HAAA HAAA!!  Again, REALLY!!  Heck, I remember nearly all of the old magazines included articles about nearly every aspect of modeling, plastics, rocketry, cars, boats, full-scale and model aircraft of all types and even some real military information and history all because someone CONTRIBUTED that information in the correct format in the proper timeline.   Is that still happening .... especially in those categories or are those specialized and subsequently, published contributions coming from the very folks who are interested in THOSE categories??  Let me shut my mouth and end this message before I get someone upset with me!!      Y'all are all old enough to know the old adage "Ya' Gits Whatcha' Pays For", or "Nuttin' In Gits Ya Nuttin' Out"!!

[john e. holliday]

The thought just hit me(I know it must be brain damage),  but if Model Aviation was on the news/magazine stands so the general public might see it, I think it would help pay for it self.   That is how I discovered Air Trails for Young Men while Mother was doing the grocery shopping.  Store manager never said any thing as the issue would wind up going home with me.  I think it cost me 25 or 35 cents which meant some home chores to do for Mom and Dad.  Or collecting newspapers and bottles to cash in for the money. 

[Brett Buck]

More than that, where are the young folks coming from?  As much as y'all talk about it, there's probably only a handful of us with the time, patience, demeanor or even the desire to work with and teach some of the young folks today, yes?? no??  It's a "hoot" reading all the ragging about the content and or perceived usefulness of a one of the last surviving "in-print" magazines that could possibly spur some, some, self-motivated young people to embrace this hobby/sport, just as those magazines of the past spurred me and you    Yet because of the flood of new and specialized content, so many of y'all want to make it go away too HAA HAAA HAAA!!  Again, REALLY!! 

    I have been hearing the same stuff since I was a kid - "where all all the juniors! We have to break everything to make them come back!!!, we are ally dying off!!!!!!"

     That was *50 years ago*, during which time we contracted greatly when RC became practical in the mid-70's, further when we ran out of acceptable engines, back up again dramatically during the Mike Keville/Tom Morris era of OTS and the greatly improved SN, along with the development of tuned pipe engines, and now back down again as the "Windy Wars" finally came to a head, and the NATs has become permanently located 2400 miles from one of the big centers of activity.

CL was only ever "alive" for about 15 years. It has been supposedly "dying" far longer than that.

      *Juniors are not coming back*, period. It doesn't matter what you do, or how you approach it. They have long since moved on to more interesting things, to them. Modeling is not ever going to be the way it was in the 40s-50's, because airplanes became "really fast busses" and yesterday's news with Sputnik. Now we have 3-4 generations of people who haven't cared one whit about airplanes or aviation technology.

    A lot of people *have completely lost their perspective*, in the sense that they think any of this is reversible if we just tried harder - your mocking quotes above being a typical example. *It is not reversible* and lack of outreach and lack promotion is not the problem. And some of the misguided or cynical "promotion" attempts have been highly counter-productive.

    We aren't going to go back to rotating NATs, we aren't going to go kids reading Air Trails or a modern equivalent (which would have to be a cell-phone-friendly web site) thrilling over the dim-witted adventures of fictional pilots or glimpses of model airplane hotshots. No one gives a flying tinker's damn about pilots, airplanes, model airplanes, or anything like it  - look around!

What we are complaining about is another of these foolish "promotional" activities by the AMA. They want to impose themselves into the drone boom, and will do anything to get their hooks into it. The problem is that their witless efforts along these lines is about to kill *everything*, because *drones are going to be heavily regulated* or effectively banned as a hobby activity very shortly. In chasing this hopeless cause, they are also going to kill everything else along with it.

   That's the problem, they see the situation with lack of perspective to the same degree (i.e. delusional) you and others seem to have, spurred on by visions of becoming the T-Rex of government lobbying blocks by representing millions of drone idiots. What they are missing is the oncoming asteroid.

   Brett

[curtis mattikow]

    I have been hearing the same stuff since I was a kid - "where all all the juniors! We have to break everything to make them come back!!!, we are ally dying off!!!!!!"

     That was *50 years ago*, during which time we contracted greatly when RC became practical in the mid-70's, further when we ran out of acceptable engines, back up again dramatically during the Mike Keville/Tom Morris era of OTS and the greatly improved SN, along with the development of tuned pipe engines, and now back down again as the "Windy Wars" finally came to a head, and the NATs has become permanently located 2400 miles from one of the big centers of activity.

CL was only ever "alive" for about 15 years. It has been supposedly "dying" far longer than that.

      *Juniors are not coming back*, period. It doesn't matter what you do, or how you approach it. They have long since moved on to more interesting things, to them. Modeling is not ever going to be the way it was in the 40s-50's, because airplanes became "really fast busses" and yesterday's news with Sputnik. Now we have 3-4 generations of people who haven't cared one whit about airplanes or aviation technology.

    A lot of people *have completely lost their perspective*, in the sense that they think any of this is reversible if we just tried harder - your mocking quotes above being a typical example. *It is not reversible* and lack of outreach and lack promotion is not the problem. And some of the misguided or cynical "promotion" attempts have been highly counter-productive.

    We aren't going to go back to rotating NATs, we aren't going to go kids reading Air Trails or a modern equivalent (which would have to be a cell-phone-friendly web site) thrilling over the dim-witted adventures of fictional pilots or glimpses of model airplane hotshots. No one gives a flying tinker's damn about pilots, airplanes, model airplanes, or anything like it  - look around!

What we are complaining about is another of these foolish "promotional" activities by the AMA. They want to impose themselves into the drone boom, and will do anything to get their hooks into it. The problem is that their witless efforts along these lines is about to kill *everything*, because *drones are going to be heavily regulated* or effectively banned as a hobby activity very shortly. In chasing this hopeless cause, they are also going to kill everything else along with it.

   That's the problem, they see the situation with lack of perspective to the same degree (i.e. delusional) you and others seem to have, spurred on by visions of becoming the T-Rex of government lobbying blocks by representing millions of drone idiots. What they are missing is the oncoming asteroid.

   Brett

Holy crap.  What a GREAT POST.  Just spot on. 

[Brett Buck]

I don't know Aviojet from Adam, but...

  Avaiojet is a very special case, and has been banned from at least a couple of other forums for his incessant trolling, taking credit for things he didn't do, treating master modelers like dirt or morons, etc.  He has really never posted anything with worthwhile content or insightful evaluation, his earlier post being a perfect example - since this was about the negative things about the AMA, he had to post something positive, even though he has absolutely no connection in any way with the AMA, stunt, or anything else, just to draw attention to himself. He is far and away the worst example of this sort of thing I have seen in something like 25 years of this sort of forum, and I am sure when he reads this, he will be thrilled to learn that, since his goal is to get people to pay attention to him, whether or not it's negative, he simply craves attention and doesn't care about the side effects.

   Note that the more he accuses everyone else of being "trolls", the more you can be sure he is doing it himself. You are not like him, fortunately.

     Brett

[Tom Vieira]

Brett,

great post!  here is something I wrote the other day kinda like what you wrote.  but, I'm not sending it because, well, my thoughts tend to wander while writing as you'll see.....

[curtis mattikow]

  Avaiojet is a very special case, and has been banned from at least a couple of other forums for his incessant trolling, taking credit for things he didn't do, treating master modelers like dirt or morons, etc.  He has really never posted anything with worthwhile content or insightful evaluation, his earlier post being a perfect example - since this was about the negative things about the AMA, he had to post something positive, even though he has absolutely no connection in any way with the AMA, stunt, or anything else, just to draw attention to himself. He is far and away the worst example of this sort of thing I have seen in something like 25 years of this sort of forum, and I am sure when he reads this, he will be thrilled to learn that, since his goal is to get people to pay attention to him, whether or not it's negative, he simply craves attention and doesn't care about the side effects.

   Note that the more he accuses everyone else of being "trolls", the more you can be sure he is doing it himself. You are not like him, fortunately.

     Brett

Like I said...I don't know him from Adam. BUT...having been thrown off all the major RC websites years ago myself, I do know what it's like to have pissed off the in crowd and the sponsors and that you can become everybody's whippin' dog pretty easily.  The nature of the internet is to have a real dogpile gang up mentality, so I sypathize with the outsider and I am always suspicious of what all the kool kids are saying and doing.
But in the end...I've seen all types of internet feuds and punchups and they just don't INTEREST me anymore.  Seen too many, it just got OLD.  Others enjoy that, it's all good by me, I don't want to censor or moderate anyone.  It's sooooo easy just to scroll past it.

Again...every damn thing in your post is sooo right on target.  Especially that cry about the juniors being fifty years old.
I can't beleive that people still think there are 80000 juniors in AMA, that is a totally FAKE number, AMA did some really fake things to conflate those numbers, I can't beleive members are not more outraged by the simulator trailer scam.  All those fake members actually cost us a lot to produce.

[Dane Martin]

Again...every damn thing in your post is sooo right on target.  Especially that cry about the juniors being fifty years old.
I can't beleive that people still think there are 80000 juniors in AMA, that is a totally FAKE number, AMA did some really fake things to conflate those numbers, I can't beleive members are not more outraged by the simulator trailer scam.  All those fake members actually cost us a lot to produce.

Good day!
I'm just curious about that number. I've actually never heard there was 80,000 junior members. Maybe I just haven't paid attention to the AMA reporting that.
That would only be like .00024 percent of the estimated population. Or .01 percent of the population of children (estimated). Plus, juniors are free. You don't think that number is a possibility? I have no idea myself. I've never thought of it until you posted that number.

[Brett Buck]

AMA did some really fake things to conflate those numbers, I can't beleive members are not more outraged by the simulator trailer scam. 

  Simulator trailer scam? What is that?

    Brett

[EddyR]

Jim and Brett your last post are how I see the current situation.  I was one of those kids in the 1940 s and it was a fun time. I liked ama mag up until 20 years ago and I stoped reading since then. One thing that is a turn off for new people is most cl flyers are hard core contest flyers.  I fell into that mold myself and sport flying got boring.  CL served a purpose for many as a filler while in pre adult age. It was fun and they moved on. Some of us did not move on and now are trying to bring back those teen age years. Hobbies of the 1950-60 s are no longer interesting for the people of today. Move on and enjoy what is left of it.
ReddyR

[Tom Vieira]

hey eddy, I'm 35 and having a blast with this!  so is my niece at 11 years old!

[curtis mattikow]

Good day!
I'm just curious about that number. I've actually never heard there was 80,000 junior members. Maybe I just haven't paid attention to the AMA reporting that.
That would only be like .00024 percent of the estimated population. Or .01 percent of the population of children (estimated). Plus, juniors are free. You don't think that number is a possibility? I have no idea myself. I've never thought of it until you posted that number.

As of a few years ago, ama claimed 180000 members.  $7.5m in dues revenue.  So at $75 each, that would be 100000 paying members.  80000 non paying junior members.