Larger inboard wing models?

[john e. holliday]

I know you guys are talking full bodied planes, but the Shameless has more outboard wing area than inboard.   Something about the center line of the weight from nose to tail.

[Howard Rush]

I made a couple of Nemesis combat planes with longer right wings and tip weight.  They flew just like the normal ones until the engine quit.  Then they'd turn left and glide inside the circle.

[Larry Cunningham]

   i am not sure what you mean by "crabbing sideways"...
     Brett

"Crabbing sideways" does seem redundant. After all, what other way is there to crab? ;-> Did I say that?

Maybe we just need some left rudder to help the ship in its constant left turn.

L.

"You can drive Nature out with a pitchfork, yet she'll be constantly running back." -Horace

[Larry Cunningham]

Okay then....is it a "wive's tale", or do most of the winning designs from the west coast have some (I have been told 3/4") wing offset with the flaps of EQUAL area?
Thanks
 

Rich, you've hit on precisely WHY these ships are winning! (That and the 1.25" flap horn drive radius..) ;->

L.

"If one cannot catch the bird of paradise, better take a wet hen." -Nikita Khruschev

[Brett Buck]

"Crabbing sideways" does seem redundant. After all, what other way is there to crab? ;-> Did I say that?

Maybe we just need some left rudder to help the ship in its constant left turn.

   
    At the CG, the fuselage is tangent to the relative wind - if you trim it the way I do.

    Brett

[Serge_Krauss]

I seem to remember that ubiquitous and successful stunt model - Mike Pratt's SIG Magnum, had symmetrical wings. Am I wrong?

Larry-

I don't know about the Magnum, and Mike and I never discussed asymmetry, but Pratt P-Force plans and model have asymmetry. FWIW.

SK

[Larry Cunningham]

Considerations for a mass-produced kit frequently override specific features the designer used. Cottage businesses are more likely to produce kits that adhere closely with what the designer originally created.

While traditional asymmetrical wings clearly have aerodynamic effects, simplifying a kit might be a larger consideration. As pointed out, how the model ultimately performs depends heavily on particular trimming and setup by the flier.

Similar things might be said about linearized control systems. Some of us feel they are worthwhile while many others (the majority?) don't worry themselves about it. And don't bring up mention exponential controls, which are even more controversial..

Do we pray for all to get what we want or what we actually need?

L.

"Ah, mind- taxing time again, is it?" -Marvin, from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

[dirty dan]

I doubt it.  One thing I've noticed about Mr. Walker is that he does a lot of experimenting to understand the flight characteristics of an airplane, but then does not make up a theoretical explanation for it.  

I have noticed the same thing and it deserves repeating and/or emphasis.

The reason Paul's approach is remarkable is that all too often one of our number will notice a change in the flying of a model and then just flat make up a theory as to the cause. This does no one any good whatsoever.

Looking at it from the other side, again PW is very consistent. Time and again I have seen folk--many with a pet theory obviously in mind, just afraid to blurt it out--approach him with an idea or technique. His response frequently is: "I dunno. Try it and see what happens!"

Dan

[Brett Buck]

While traditional asymmetrical wings clearly have aerodynamic effects, simplifying a kit might be a larger consideration. As pointed out, how the model ultimately performs depends heavily on particular trimming and setup by the flier.

Similar things might be said about linearized control systems. Some of us feel they are worthwhile while many others (the majority?) don't worry themselves about it. And don't bring up mention exponential controls, which are even more controversial.

   Agreed, and the tiny difference between the ultimate performance from something like a 1/2" difference in asymmetry is almost always swamped by tiny trim or construction differences. As long as you are in the ball park, and willing to make the necessary adjustments in tip weight and flap differential/tab, it doesn't matter very much.

   There's not that much controversial about exponential controls. I think they are a bad idea for any number of repeatedly stated reasons. But my only interest in them is trying to illuminate their characteristics so people can make an informed decision to do something so drastic and permanent on a year-long stunt plane build.

   The only thing controversial is various people randomly bringing them into unrelated discussions to provoke a response, and then turning that response into a claimed vendetta against Fred Bachl, "progress", or some other bizarrely unrelated point.

    Brett

[PJ Rowland]

...... or some other bizarrely unrelated point.  "

Like Schrödinger's cat ?

[Larry Cunningham]

Oh, Brett. By now we all know that no one dares invoke a "claimed vendetta against Fred Bachl", while you're around.

I'm really so sorry to inform you - no one really gives a tinkers damn about your opinions on exponential bellcranks. So don't inflate the mere mention of expocranks into some grand conspiracy attempting to combat your noble efforts to "inform" people in their year long efforts to build a model airplane.

L.

"Conceit causes more conversation than wit." -LaRouchefoucauld

[Howard Rush]

I'm working on a project that might help us understand the control-slope issue better.  I think I can show that there is an elephant in the room.   

[Larry Cunningham]

Howard,

If you'll drive your circuit with a trapezoidal waveform current source, the elephant will speak to you.

L.

PS - Howard, thanks again for the mouse, I'm still using it. It's one of the better things I have, and I appreciate it.

"Of all the damnable waste of human life that ever was invented, clerking is the worst." -George Bernard Shaw

[Brett Buck]

I'm really so sorry to inform you - no one really gives a tinkers damn about your opinions on exponential bellcranks. So don't inflate the mere mention of expocranks into some grand conspiracy attempting to combat your noble efforts to "inform" people in their year long efforts to build a model airplane.

  Well done, right on cue!  Got our righteous indignation in for the day, did we?

   Who brought this topic randomly and irrelevantly into the discussion in the first place? It wasn't me, now, was it? Again, kudos!

    Brett

[Serge_Krauss]

Cool it, guys.

[Larry Cunningham]

  Well done, right on cue!  Got our righteous indignation in for the day, did we?

   Who brought this topic randomly and irrelevantly into the discussion in the first place? It wasn't me, now, was it? Again, kudos!

    Brett

I'm glad you liked it. I'm often one of your fans, but sometimes your silly projections on innocent comments get irksome.

L.

"Lo, what huge heaps of littleness around!" -Alexander Pope