Lap time for Arf Flite Streak...

[Joe Yau]

Just wondering what is the ideal lap time for this plane?  I'm finding 5 sec + don't work too well. specially in the 15km+ wind. I'm running a ST C.35 with tongue muff, 10X 4.5 APC, 60' C2C .015 lines.

Thanks in advance.

[Ray]

The Flite Streak was a "Combat Trainer", and as such, was expected to fly faster than a "Stunt Trainer", although I have seen some of them fly very nicely at reduced speeds with engines such as 15s, 19s, and 20s. The ST model C was available in several varieties, including one with lowered compression, sold as a "stunt" engine.  It was not a 4-2-4 style engine, but rather a "wet two" engine, and was uneconomical on fuel. 

The more common ST "C" engines need to run at fairly high rpms, using a low pitch prop to control speed. 

One of the better choices for a Streak from the old Tigre stable was the G20/23, but my own favorite was a 3-bolt backplate Fox 25.  With that, even running it in a classic 4-2-4 run, we usually were flying at about 4.6 to 4.8 second laps on 58' lines. 

[Joe Yau]

The Flite Streak is just my back up and bad weather plane..  I usually use it to feel out the condition before I fly the big ones. the ST C.35 has  head shims and a custom venturi insert to limits the speed.  I run it at a wet 2-cycle setting and its quite steady throughout the pattern. I'm just finding the Flite Streak just don't fly well at 5 sec/lap. and not bad at around 4.5  sec/lap or so.  I guess the wing area on the FS  just don't support slower speed..?

[Terry Bolin]

Joe, Now you're gonna be sorry but, Here is my two cents worth: Leave your  RPM alone if you are happy with the engine run. change your lap time with the prop pitch. Go to a 5 or 6 pitch prop and also try the APC brand props. I have improved two of my planes performance just by using the apc brand props. (they got better over head)  I learned this from Allen Brickhause but also buy a larger diam. prop and cut it down to the length you need (11 cut to a 10") so you have a little wider blade tip and also use the "Sport" style.
We have a flier here who has gotten confortable enough that he can fly with almost no line tension so it's what ever settings are right for you. Good luck and let us know how you do.
Terry B.

[Joe Yau]

change your lap time with the prop pitch. Go to a 5 or 6 pitch prop and also try the APC brand props. I have improved two of my planes performance just by using the apc brand props. (they got better over head)  I learned this from Allen Brickhause but also buy a larger diam. prop and cut it down to the length you need (11 cut to a 10") so you have a little wider blade tip and also use the "Sport" style.

Actually, I have been using APC props from day one.  (10X6, 10X5, 10X4) with the 10X4, the line tension went light, and needs more rpm to even to pull up on a wing-over.   but my lap time was around 4.9- 5/sec/lap.  then I got a  APC 10.5X4.5 and I cut it down to 10"  seems to work well, and very good on the overheads (4.85 sec/lap).  but not too good in the wind till I up the rpm more.  The 10X6 is much better in the wind, but lap time is in the lo/mid 4s depends on the NV setting.

[Alan Hahn]

The ARF FS version is pretty light, so I am wondering if that is part of the problem.
You don't say what the exact problem is, but it is important to have very loose controls. I went to sewn hinges just to keep the control pressure very light. If you are using the provided CA hinges, then simple slice through them with a razor blade, and sew right over where the old ones were. The part left inside provides a nice hard support for the thread. However you may need a thimble to get the needle through the plastic.
Now I'm flying mine on a Fox 15BB, and using 52 foot lines. I'm not really a windy weather flyer, so I might have similar problems to you. But one suggestion is to go to shorter lines. Now that will give you faster laps, if you keep everything else the same, but also more line tension.

[ray copeland]

Just ordered my ARF Flite Streak , planning on using an OS FP20 and 52 foot lines to train on. Also have an OS 25FSR if needed or a Fox 19. Any other mods to this plane to help it be a better trainer for me ? I will just be working on the beginner pattern. Thanks, Ray

[Andrew Hathaway]

I wasn't overly impressed with my ARF Flite Streak.  With a 20FP and a 9x4 APC prop, it did ok, but it wasn't as good as some of the other beater profiles I've flown.  Couldn't tell ya on lap times, since I never timed it, but it didn't fly very fast or slow.  Probably somewhere in the high 4 second range. 

The ARF FS with a 20FP and 52ft lines would be a bit fast.  I was flying mine on 015 x 60ft eyelet to eyelet lines, and was planning to go to 61ft or longer 012's to slow it down a bit.  A 25 FSR would be about 3 times as much power as the plane needs.  The 20FP is really overkill, the 25 FSR would be hard to keep up with.  I'm not sure about a Fox 19... It'd be enough power, but between vibration and the potential for difficult starts, I could see the nose falling off.  If I were putting another one together, I'd toss the stock fuselage and make a new one from scratch with doublers that come back to the spars on the wing.  The supplied fuselage just isn't strong enough in the nose section. 

[Steven Kientz]

I helped a retread with his FS arf. Ureely (50' lines), OS 32, 30%nitro. Close to 3 sec. per lap, for about 75 seconds. Thank god he stuffed it, the natives(r/c guys) were getting a little scared. We have since tamed it down, 10% on 60' lines and a new fuse.

Steve

[ray copeland]

Thanks for the tip about the fuselage! I would think 1/4 balsa and 1/16th doublers. I haven't even seen the kit yet and already thinking of redesign!  I am sure this kit needs to be "dump worthy" for me, so i am still open for any other mod ideas.

[Just One-eye]

Since the kit first came out, I have built a minimum of two dozen of them, about a third from the TF kit, and the rest either from George's plans, or any one of a variety of personal variations, along the lines of the first Brodak Streak clone (can't recall its name).  The three-bolt Fox 19 and 25 engines produced a great deal less vibration, and didn't need any serious nose modification the way a Fox Rocket or the earliest Combat Special 35s required. 

I've not had much experience with the Fox 19s with the four bolt backplates, although I had one of their BB 25s for a short while.  If they were "shakers", I never was aware of it.  We've recently had a couple of ARF Streaks, with an FP 25 on one, and a K&B (Cox) Conquest 15 on the other.  Both were nice to fly (the 15 handled 015 by 52 lines quite well), and I want to try out an FP 20 on it, eventually.  None of those vibrate Fox-style (although an ABC Fox 35 doesn't, either). 

Just for the record, with the kit's (the ARF is also short) short nose, I always had tank problems with classic stunt 35s and the Streaks (Fox 35, Johnson "S", OS Max-S 35), unless I used a clunk on the inboard side.  My one attempt with a Fox 35 and a "Veco T-28" type tank was extremely unpleasant.  The T-28 was designed for use on short-nosed profile planes, and worked nicely for Tige G21-35s, 36Xes, and most Johnsons. 

[Andrew Hathaway]

Set all the supplied hardware, and the fuselage aside.  Cut a new fuselage from 1/2" balsa.  Might as well pull the moments out to modern standards.  Stretch the nose and tail to match a Skyray 35, and bring the ply doublers back just as far.  In addition to being more damage resistant, it'll give you more room for fuel, landing gear, etc and it'll probably balance better, along with improving the turn and the stability.  Substitute a good bellcrank, quality leadouts, and a two wheel gear with decent wheels that won't fold over under the weight of the plane.  With those changes you'll have a much better plane. 

[ray copeland]

Thanks Andrew  for those great tips. Will look on the internet for Sky  Ray specs to somewhat duplicate when i start building on the fuse. I do like building durable planes at this point of my flying career! The fox 19 is a 4 bolt backplate and is destined for the bay along with my fox 15, they both run good and  I really like the 4 and 2 break on the foxes but i like the smoothness of the os engines better.

[Joe Yau]

I have always flown my Flite Streaks with the ST C.35 and 9x7 props in a two stroke 25% nitro. No wind problems, but then I was usually flying slow combat in the 60-70's era.  It is a fast plane, not a slow one.

I built my first Top Flite .35 Flite Streak back in about 74, (I left off CL in 75) and I used the very same engine (ST C.35) that was in it on my current one.  I ran a yellow Tornado 9X6 with the combat venturi, 25% Missile Mist and it was fast.   But my current one is set up for stunt,  so it has been detuned to some degree.

[dave siegler]

Here is my experience.  I would not spend a lot of time beefing it up.

I am on my second one built to stock except
1) different tank
2) different wheel
3) hard AL plates under the motor and the nuts on the other side.
4) Different hinges (barrel type)
5) ply hard point for elevator hinge.

I use a OS 25fp, MAS 9x4.  This engine is prety happy running at stunt speeds so the lap times are comfortable.

The first one crashed on an outside loop too low after many flights.  It hit at a low angle, not that hard, a scratch build plane would have lived throug that.  It didn't even break the prop.  The whole center section crumbled and it wasn't worth fixing it.  The balsa was light and pithy and the repairs and a new fuse would have been a lot of work.

I think if you go through the trouble of making a new fuse and all that, you are just moving the failure point to a new location that may be hard to fix. 

In my opinion, build it close to stock, and fly it.  Use a low vibration engine, and fix some of the easy stuff, and burn lots of gas.  Don't shed a lot of tears when it expires.

If you want something more durable, get the slow combat fomaie from Phil at the corehouse or the UKEY.  Both will fly slowly and both are prety tough.

Dave
 

[Joe Yau]

I also have a few mods done to mine.

1/ Solid 1/2" hard balsa fuselage with extended plywood doublers.
2/ Dual wheel landing gear.
3/ Wing Flaps / larger elevator
4/ Dubro pin hinges
4/ Ball link from bellcrank
5/ .027 leadouts
6/ CF pushrods




This is why the fuselage should be upgraded...

[Larrys4227]

I'm now on my 2nd Flite Streak ARF. The first will fly again, but with a new fuse made of solid balsa, ply and extended fore and aft. The 2nd FS needed the nose rebuilt after the 5th flight, due to a botched stooge launch. I put in 2 wooden dowels, 6" each, from just behind the motor mount extending back to mid wing. Since the fuse is hollow, this was easy. Then I doubled up the ply on each fuse side back to about mid-wing. On the fuse-side opposite the motor, I didn't bother make the u-shaped cut-out. (The 2nd FS had alot of vibration in flight, right down into the handle.) I also took the time to put in a 2-wheeled landing gear.

I've got about 20 flights on it thus far .... with no repairs. I've been able to really start trimming it out, and doing some basic stunt practicing. Counting off in my head .... I think I'm around 5 sec. laptimes, with a OS 25, 9x5 prop, and 60' lines. On this same basic setup with FS #1, I was low-mid 4 seconds ..... The rebuild of the fuse in FS #2 has made the plane heavier, thus alittle slower.

Next time out to the field I gotta figure out why my loops look like an 'upright #9'. Starting the loop is pretty tight, but the last half of the loop the plane seems to fall off and struggle to complete the loop. I got a feeling that I need some more weight in the tail. I moved my handle line spacing out (which helped), and elevator throw seems to be more than sufficient (at least 1/2", from memory). With FS #2, I've never been able to get the 'start' and 'end' of the loop on the same line. Maybe the extra weight and slower speeds is causing it .... before adding tail weight, I may try a 9x6 to bump up the speed.

Ahhh .... the trials of experimentation!, but as long as I can fly without some sort of repair to this thing, then its all good!

After building a fuse for FS #1, I'm definately going with a kit plane. By that time, the new Evolution 36 should be out. I wanna try that engine. I've got a Evo 46 in an RC plane, and its a wonderful engine.

Pic below is FS#1 during maiden flights. I've learned alot since then ... :-)

Babbling now ..... FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

[Joe Yau]

You don't say what the exact problem is,

I'm finding the Flite Streak just don't fly well at 5 sec+/lap time. But good from about 4.8 sec/lap and down. (depends on the wind conditions)

[Andrew Hathaway]

This is why the fuselage should be upgraded...

I love that pic.  That's the nose off my ARF.  It suffered a fouled hand launch in heavy winds, crashing very softly in soft dirt and grass.  There was no visible damage at the time.  A few weeks later the engine was making some bad noises, and the inspection revealed cracks behind the doublers.  Some thin CA, and I flew it about another 10 flights.  I went to insert a brass tube bushing in the landing gear block and the nose FELL OFF.  I disected the nose, and posted the pics.  That thread is still on here, with all the pics.  I still haven't fixed the plane. 
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=6803

[Steven Kientz]

When I built a new fuse for my flying partners plane, I used a set of Skyray plans, copied moments and all. Now on 10% and 60' lines with a OS32( 10x4 prop) its very docile.

Steve

[Larrys4227]

Thought I'd pass on an update, after some testing last night.

I recorded some lap times on my FS#2 --- OS25, 10% fuel w/25% castor and 60' lines:
       ** 9x5 prop -- 5.10's to 5.30's (seconds p/lap)
       ** 9x4 prop -- 5.50's to 5.70's
       ** 9x6 prop -- 4.80's to 5.00's

The FS was way slow on the 9x4. I tried one wingover and I thought the plane was gonna
fall on top of me. The 9x6 gets the plane in the vicinity of what I'm looking for, and it responded
well on the few stunts that I can perform. Good pull on the lines too. The wind was blowing a good
10-12mph, and maybe on a calm day, the 9x6 laptimes will go down ... making it alittle too fast.
Not sure if others change props based on wind conditions?

Now that I got the laptimes better ... my next issue was try to correct the out of shape loops.
Every loop I've tried with this plane (FS #2) results in an upright #9 ... even with the 9x6 and better
speed, the pullout was still very close to the ground. Even though the CG was at the recommended 1.5",
I was thinking the nose was still too heavy. I removed the Dubro spinner/prop nut, and installed the basic
nut and washer that came with the engine. I didn't weigh it, but the Dubro has to be an ounce or two
heavier than a nut/washer. Right from the takeoff, it was very sensitive to inputs ... I had changed my
line spacing at the handle to a wider setting .... so I flew it gentle, let the fuel run out and landed.
Changed the spacing, fueled and started it up .... much better!  Tucked into that first loop, .....
and perfect! The entry and exit was almost exactly on the same line. No loss of speed and it seemed
almost effortless for the plane to go around. Landing was pretty uneventful as well ... was worried
about a too-tail heavy plane, with no power trying to land.

The sun was going down, and didn't want to push it, so I packed it up .... I had a smile and a decent
night of testing!

Tonight I'll check to see where the CG is .... manual calls for 3.5", but everyone says that is wrong.
I'm interested to see how close I am.

This weekend I'll do some more testing .... specifically playing around with the elevator throw. Theres alot
in it right now, and not sure if I need that much. The 4-5 loops on the last flight were pretty tight.

OK, I'll step down now ... thought ya'all would be interested and wanted to let ya know.

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

[john e. holliday]

Good report,  now to get to the learning the pattern now.  I still have the remains of my ARF Streak that was flown with LA 25 from the start.  The nose was reattached several times after grand daaughters started flying it.  I myself must have had at least a couple dozen patterns on it.  Flew with .012 lines center or plane to center of handle.  Prop was Top Flite 10-4 or a 9-5 depending on the day.  Fuel 10% nitro all brands.  I really don't time the laps as I fly what feels comfortable to me.  Glad to here you are making progress.  DOC Holliday

[Larrys4227]

Thanks Doc -- Actually feels great not to have to repair the darned thing. Been 2 weeks now ... Hahaha! (Knock on wood). Got a few flights in this morning before the winds came up. Forgot my digital stop watch w/lap timer at home. Sure felt like it was going faster with no wind.  Once I figure this out, I'll ditch the lap timer, but I'm a very curious person and 'gotta know'.  The plane was nice and responsive with no wind, but things were happening kinda fast (maybe too much coffee first thing in the AM?) .... was all good though. Very pleased.... Couple times I had it inverted for about an 1/8 - 1/4 lap .... I've been practicing the lazy 8 (I think). Basically a backwards "S" turn with inverted flight in the middle. Someone was telling me about it in another thread and I've been practicing it. Can practice my inside and outside loops (well half of them) without the nose ever pointing to the ground .... and alittle inverted flight to boot. Still makes me 'pucker' just abit, so I'm taking it slow ...

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

[john e. holliday]

I know about pucker power.  As a youngster with very little in finances each plane was a like a peice of gold.  Was very cautious doing manuevers.  Then when I got out on my own with a decent job things changed.  I hadn't discovered girls as a replacement for planes yet.  The mentors in the old "Flying Eagles Club" always said if you don't crash you aint trying.  Learned to rebuild a few planes.  Keep us posted on your progress.  DOC Holliday

[Larrys4227]

Had even more success this weekend! Unfortunately, the winds were fairly high all weekend, so the only flying I got in was between dawn and about 9am. Still, I seem to be able to get in alot of flights in that time. Had a first for me today .... flew inverted for several laps on each flight. Wow! Was that a rush the first time. Seemed to be tough to get my feet to move me in the opposite direction. LOL! Also put together successive horizontal 8's ... felt strange that I could stand in one spot flying for so long. The horiz-8's weren't the prettiest .... 

Ahh .... feels good to be getting somewhere. Plane is in great shape and flying well!!

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

[john e. holliday]

Great news.  Now if I were there you could probably be doing the pattern in no time.  As I told my brother one time as we were picking up pieces, do not change your mind when you start a maneuver.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday

[Larrys4227]

Now if I were there you could probably be doing the pattern in no time.  As I told my brother one time as we were picking up pieces, do not change your mind when you start a maneuver.

I've often thought that some help might be nice .... but unfortunately, I dont have that luxury. LOL! I'm the only one at my field flying control line, so its either sink or swim. 

Have caught myself changing my mind when I start a manuever ... I found that I really need to avoid doing that. Hahaha!

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

[Larrys4227]

All things considered, if you can fly a good pattern with a Flite Strek, then you can fly a really great one with a  typical stunt plane.  Keep up the practice. See you at the circle.

Thanks Ty ... its certainly practice, practice. I got alot further last weekend in stunts than I had planned. Gonna keep practicing what I know before attempting anything new. 

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

[john e. holliday]

Larry, how far from Tampa are you.  According to your profile your in Lakeland Florida just a hop, skip and a jump from there(Missouri talk when giving directions).  DOC Holliday

[Larrys4227]

Hey DOC - Not far from Tampa, about 40 minutes under good conditions. At some point soon, I'd like to make a trip over to P. Coopy's club in Lake Wales. He hosted the Cent. Florida Fly-In a month or two ago .. also met a couple guys from a tampa club there. I should be able to get the time now ... the club I belong to does all the logistics and support for Florida Jets and Top Gun. Now that those are over, its nothing but weekend fun flying.

I've been trying to get alittle better before hooking up with either Tampa or Lake Wales. These guys are very good CL flyers and made me look silly. 

FlySafe! Larry (Larrys4227)

[john e. holliday]

That is exactly the guys you need to be with.  You will improve much faster.  Of course you have to be able to take a little criticism.  DOC Holliday

[bill marvel]

Thanks Andrew  for those great tips. Will look on the internet for Sky  Ray specs to somewhat duplicate when i start building on the fuse. I do like building durable planes at this point of my flying career! The fox 19 is a 4 bolt backplate and is destined for the bay along with my fox 15, they both run good and  I really like the 4 and 2 break on the foxes but i like the smoothness of the os engines better.

Ray:
I'll save you some research.  My FS ARF has a 4 5/8" nose from the leading edge.  My Sky Ray nose is slightly under 6" long from the leading edge.  I have a .20 FP on each.  It starts with 1-2 flips and runs like a sewing machine.  I added 1/2 oz. of weight to the nose of the FS.  I use .015 X 60' lines.  She seems to like lap times under 5 secs.  I have not changed the nose length.  A 3 oz. Hayes tank gives me over 7 minutes.

The FS ARF is a nice plane right out of the box.  The nose is a weak point and breaks right at the leading edge without a lot of violence.  Before you put your FS together, trace the fuselage pattern onto a piece of 1/2" balsa (or a piece of cardboard to make a pattern).  While you are flying your ARF, build a new fuselage the way you want it.  Increase the thickness of the tail feathers from 1/8" to 3/16" and you will eliminate a little flex.

When (not if) you break off the nose, the repair/rebuild will go quickly.

regards,
bill marvel

[Just One-eye]

Howdy, Bill M!

Because we still have half a dozen or more Fox stunt 25-29-35 engines (mostly of pre-1970 variety), when we assembled the first Streak ARF, I added a plywood brace to the inboard side, 1/8" thick, about 1 1/2" on the right angle sides.  The Fox 29 and 35, other than the ABC (and perhaps the ceramic, don't know about that option yet), vibrate enough all by themselves to shake the nose off a stock Ringmaster, built according to the S-1 plans (which use the term "cement" throughout, rather than "glue", and which has doublers that do not extend nearly far enough back over the wing). 

So far, we've had the FP 25, and the old pre- Max-S OS 25, on our FS ARF.  The first was not unlike using a Tigre C35 with it -- 80-85 mph or so speeds.  The second was so comparatively weak, I questioned my recall from using the same type engine back in the 1960s (I do have an FP 20, just haven't put that one on it yet).  I haven't had the second one in the air, because I need the right venturi for the K&B Cox Conquest 15 I put on it.

[ray copeland]

Received my FS via UPS, everything broken in half except the wing is repairable, they sent another so i have a replacement now also. The broken fuselage in the package really reveals how weakly it is built! I have repaired and built the broken plane as the original plans go and am mounting an fp 20 to use for practice, it seems quite a bit noseheavy. I have traced all of the parts of the new plane on a piece of cardboard. Right now the repaired plane will be used for practice untill it expires and then i will build the new one with changes. I have drawn on 1/2" balsa a new fuse extended 1" on the nose to accept the Hayes 3oz. tank and 2" on the tail for balance.  Thanks for all the tips and advice!!