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Author Topic: LA46 ABC sets. Taking names for the next prod run  (Read 10093 times)

Offline Brian Gardner

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LA46 ABC sets. Taking names for the next prod run
« on: August 06, 2016, 12:44:50 AM »
Feedback on the first production run of LA46 sets has been really good.

I have sufficient requests to proceed with a second production run as of 25th July.

The sets will again include piston/liner/rod/pin/head/shim. The head is mandatory as I've increased the liner thickness at the top for extra strength during production and service. The revised port timing (as opposed to stock) and angling is giving great results.

Brian
[/b]
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 08:33:25 PM by Brian Gardner »


Offline Arlan McKee

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2016, 06:25:04 AM »
Brian,

I measure .037 and if you do them put me down for 2 sets.

Arlan McKee

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2016, 02:50:43 PM »
I got .0359 in one spot with a ball mic. .9838/.9840 for the o. d. near the top.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.

Online proparc

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2016, 04:33:07 PM »
Part of makes your parts so good, is that they are complete. I would definitely include the rod and pin in ALL sets so everyone knows they are going to get a complete ready to go solution.
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2016, 07:38:15 PM »
Good point and I agree mate.

Part of makes your parts so good, is that they are complete. I would definitely include the rod and pin in ALL sets so everyone knows they are going to get a complete ready to go solution.

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2016, 08:24:57 PM »
Well, that's a similar wall thickness to the Fox 36X (the thinnest we've done) and they have been successful.

So guys let me know if you are a definite yes to this project and we'll see if we get the numbers to make it happen.

Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2016, 08:39:41 PM »
Hi Brian, Really a super idea! Please put me down for one complete set.

Phil Spillman
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Offline Arlan McKee

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2016, 11:39:20 PM »
I got .0359 in one spot with a ball mic.
Perry,
Did you get .037 in any spots?
I'm just curious if there is that much difference on that radius between a vernier caliper and a ball mic.
I'm no machinist.
Thanks,

Arlan

Offline Perry Rose

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2016, 05:26:23 AM »
I didn't check lots of places. I got .040 with my digital calipers which made me use  the mic.The production tolerances and dimensions are not known to me.
I wouldn't take her to a dog fight even if she had a chance to win.

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2016, 08:27:04 AM »
I failed to mention these will be stunt 4/2 timed using the same timing as I did with the ST51 sets.

Offline Paul Taylor

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2016, 05:15:46 PM »
Can we get a price?

Also just asking but should a few be made and tested to make sure they are as good as your other products?
Just asking cause would hate for them to go out only to find a issue.

I might even send a old P&L to you for comparison.

I would be interested if know for sure they work And the cost.
Paul

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Offline phil c

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2016, 05:26:55 PM »
Brian, you can put me down for 2

Phil C
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Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2016, 05:49:11 PM »
I bet the guys into Fox 35 speed would be interested if you  offered them an ABC setup like the ones FOX used to offer.
 Maybe your ABC setp for the 36X P/L can be modified to fit the Stunt case?
Too bad no one near to me ( AlbanyNY) playing with Fox speed.
Lyle
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Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2016, 06:08:07 PM »
The Fox 35 racing guys have been onto me Lyle.

If I do the LA46 as a full set piston/liner/rod/pin the price would be around $120 to $130 Aussie dollars. ($92-$100US)

If I do just piston/liner sets they would be more around $105 Aussie dollars. ($81US)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 07:19:52 AM by Brian Gardner »

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2016, 07:35:18 AM »
A number of people have sent pm's expressing concerns that changing the port timing to proven stunt numbers will bring a loss of power.  (The stock timing is 142 exhaust and 116 transfers.)

This may be true in the case of outright peak 2 cycle power.

But with proven stunt timing figures the engine will deliver good - controllable stunt runs. If more power is sought a larger venturi or more nitro will give that whilst maintaining the quality of run characteristics.

I've just received a temporary sample engine to look at and make final decisions. So far enough people have committed to an order for me to be able to do an initial production run if I decide to proceed.

Offline frank williams

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2016, 09:17:14 AM »
Brian
I've marvelled at the LA46 for years.  The LA46 numbers are terrible ... it shouldn't work as a good stunt motor....... but for some reason they work really well.  The run is not a fullout two cycle..... its a really good stunt run as is,for almost everyone.  I don't know why, I wouldn't have thought so but they work with the high timing and big blowdown.  Go figure.  I don't know if anyone has ever tried one with normal timing.  Somehow I think an LA46 with normal timing wouldn't be an LA46.
Frank

Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2016, 09:24:05 AM »
Brian,

Put me down for one set (LA 46)

Thank you, Jerry

Offline Tom Luciano

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2016, 09:31:30 AM »
Brian,

I'll take 2 sets.

Thank you!
Tom
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Offline Chris Belcher

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2016, 10:18:49 AM »
I have modified 2 LA 46s by simply but CAREFULLY filing the transfer ports with a flat needle file, measuring the height first with calipers and then removing 25 thousandths leaving the roof angle at 90 degrees and the same height all the way across. This is exactly what Derek Pickard was doing and I found this mod in an article he produced back in the..well back a while ago. There is minimal power loss but that was not an issue FOR ME. The motor now runs in a solid 4 and just breaks at the tops lightly (depending on prop, compr, venturi size etc) but the real deal here is...it does this EVERY time. Derek even states in his article that "right every time counts a lot". I am NOT saying the stock motor doesn't run right every time for everybody...it just didn't FOR ME. As far as stunt timing for Brian's P/L sets as long as we don't expect a wet 2 run and more of a 4/2 run I know I would be VERY pleased as my hack at the motor produced exactly the results I wanted. His "mods" no doubt would be an even greater improvement. I can only attest to modified timing. Mike Scott, Doug Moon and Chris Rigotti can attest to the motor runs i am getting on this motor....consistent is the best word I think. Again, not that others have not gotten consistent runs on a stock motor, I just didn't. NOW...FUEL CONSUMPTION!!! That's the real caveat...stock I could do the pattern on 3.25 to 3.5 ozs of 5/22 Powermaster...that is amazing to me...a pattern with 10 laps to spare on a .46 motor on 3.5 ozs pulling a 48 oz Cardinal!!! Incredible. Modified motor uses 5 ozs....every bit of it, same fuel (with 1 head shim). Just my 2 cents...if Brian makes these i will buy several for all, well not all, I would leave some stock, my 6 LA46s.

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2016, 04:41:07 PM »
I'm going to look at angling the ports a little towards non exh side of the cylinder. It won't be much help on fuel economy because the liner is so thin and any angle on the port sides won't have much effect. But every little bit counts in trying to stop the fresh charge getting dragged out the exh.

Online tim lackey

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2016, 05:31:02 PM »
Hi, Brian
put me down for 2 sets, I'm hoping you do the complete package.
Thanks Tim

Offline Al Ferraro

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2016, 06:34:10 PM »
I measured the LA 46 liner and got .039 for the side and .033 for the top flange which is thinner than the .25. The engine that I was working with had a.015 shim under the head.
  I keep reading that guys put an extra head shim to get a better stunt run. It would be good to know what the total shim height is that every one is using and make the liner flange bigger, say like .058 and only use one .005 shim under the head.
Al

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2016, 06:55:59 PM »
Brian
I've marvelled at the LA46 for years.  The LA46 numbers are terrible ... it shouldn't work as a good stunt motor....... but for some reason they work really well.  The run is not a fullout two cycle..... its a really good stunt run as is,for almost everyone.  I don't know why, I wouldn't have thought so but they work with the high timing and big blowdown.  Go figure.  I don't know if anyone has ever tried one with normal timing.  Somehow I think an LA46 with normal timing wouldn't be an LA46.

      Most people run them just as they come. There's A LOT more to getting a decent run than the supposedly "correct" timing numbers.

      Brett

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2016, 07:01:15 PM »
I'm with you there Al,  If I proceed I intend to beef things up as much as I can. The liner thickness is similar to the Fox 36X and they were ok.

I measured the LA 46 liner and got .039 for the side and .033 for the top flange which is thinner than the .25. The engine that I was working with had a.015 shim under the head.
  I keep reading that guys put an extra head shim to get a better stunt run. It would be good to know what the total shim height is that every one is using and make the liner flange bigger, say like .058 and only use one .005 shim under the head.
Al

Online Randy Cuberly

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2016, 12:50:46 AM »
I'm going to look at angling the ports a little towards non exh side of the cylinder. It won't be much help on fuel economy because the liner is so thin and any angle on the port sides won't have much effect. But every little bit counts in trying to stop the fresh charge getting dragged out the exh.

Brian, I have modified many LA46's over the years (something around 60) and discovered that the stock timing with the ports angled back 60 degrees away from the exhaust port did in fact significantly reduce fuel consumption on most of the engines.  Also I'm convinced that it gives steadier runs in the mid range.  Of course that's only an opinion based on running and flying many of them.  There are of course other factors involved in fuel consumption but it does work on nearly every engine I reworked.  There are still many of my engines floating around and they typically run very well.  I never tried milder port timing but suspect it would do exactly as expected and as you say.  I also experimented with a number of different head configurations but never found one that was enough of an improvement to justify the work.
Given the quality of work you put into piston cylinder fit I'm sure these will be great runners.

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2016, 02:54:51 AM »
Thanks Randy, that's good to know it's worth trying to direct the fresh charge away from the exh port.

Also good to know it's not really worth experimenting with heads.



Brian, I have modified many LA46's over the years (something around 60) and discovered that the stock timing with the ports angled back 60 degrees away from the exhaust port did in fact significantly reduce fuel consumption on most of the engines.  Also I'm convinced that it gives steadier runs in the mid range.  Of course that's only an opinion based on running and flying many of them.  There are of course other factors involved in fuel consumption but it does work on nearly every engine I reworked.  There are still many of my engines floating around and they typically run very well.  I never tried milder port timing but suspect it would do exactly as expected and as you say.  I also experimented with a number of different head configurations but never found one that was enough of an improvement to justify the work.
Given the quality of work you put into piston cylinder fit I'm sure these will be great runners.

Randy Cuberly

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2016, 01:23:15 AM »
Guys, I've not forgotten about this. I've just been busy on other things and having a bit of a bad run with my health.

Offline Matt Spencer

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2016, 02:25:10 AM »
IF the LA 25 set FITS the FP 25 ! , Does the LA 46 Fit the 40 ?

and the LA fit the FP ??

Which Fits the FSR ! ( with gudgeon pin circlips ! )

Thus we'd get a ABC 40 FSR ABS set IF the 46 fits the 40 , ad infinitum .
seen the 40 Rod's same 40 max , FP , & FSR ! thinking the FS is a recased FSR , so that'd benifit too .

a can of worms , simplified , Does a LA 46 liner fit a LA 40 CASE ! ? thanks . H^^

Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2016, 10:33:25 AM »
IF the LA 25 set FITS the FP 25 ! , Does the LA 46 Fit the 40 ?

and the LA fit the FP ??

Which Fits the FSR ! ( with gudgeon pin circlips ! )

Thus we'd get a ABC 40 FSR ABS set IF the 46 fits the 40 , ad infinitum .
seen the 40 Rod's same 40 max , FP , & FSR ! thinking the FS is a recased FSR , so that'd benifit too .

a can of worms , simplified , Does a LA 46 liner fit a LA 40 CASE ! ? thanks . H^^


No.

The OS VF 40-46 are interchangeable.

Jerry

Offline Motorman

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2016, 10:57:27 AM »
having a bit of a bad run with my health.

Nothing serious I hope. Get well soon.

MM
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Online Randy Cuberly

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets?
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2016, 11:19:32 AM »
Guys, I've not forgotten about this. I've just been busy on other things and having a bit of a bad run with my health.

Nothing is worth taking chances with your health.  Take care of yourself Brian...modeling will still be here when you're well.

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Re-confirm please.
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2016, 05:16:35 AM »
OK Guys,

After a lot of consideration I'm prepared to proceed with these, but there is an increased cost/requirement.

We'll be ok with the thin wall of the liner but I want to increase the thickness of the top flange to ensure we can maintain a truly round bore and maintain the quality that everyone is acustomed to with our ABC sets.

This means that a new head will be mandatory adding a cost of approx $28-$30AUD per set.

Those that have requested to be put on the list for these can you please confirm you are still in.

Brian


Offline Al Ferraro

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2016, 06:14:23 AM »
  3 for me.
Al

Offline Steve Lotz

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2016, 08:33:55 AM »
I'm still in but I don't remember how many sets I wanted and I can't find the thread.

Steve Lotz

Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2016, 09:48:53 AM »
Brian,

I'm sorry to bow out but it is a must do for me. I hope your health is on an upswing and you get much better ASAP!

Happy Holidays to you mate, Jerry

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2016, 03:38:55 PM »
That's OK Jerry, I'll take your place in line. Put me down for one set Brian...Thanks!  8)
Pete Cunha
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Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2016, 04:37:49 PM »
Done Pete

That's OK Jerry, I'll take your place in line. Put me down for one set Brian...Thanks!  8)

Offline Paul Allen

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2016, 02:34:39 AM »
Brian
       Yes, I will have a set please.
Paul Allen

Offline Tom Luciano

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2016, 04:28:16 AM »
Brian,
 I'll commit to 1 set.


Thanks,
Tom
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Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2017, 01:51:27 AM »
These are ready. I'll be notifying everyone on the list in the coming week & requesting payment etc. Here's a preview :-)


Offline Lyle Spiegel

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2017, 03:37:49 AM »
Been awhile. Am I on your list? I cant remember, lol!
Lyle Spiegel AMA 19775

Offline Mike Bufkin

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2017, 04:20:17 AM »
Brian,
If you end up with any leftovers,I'll take a few.
Mike

Offline Brian Gardner

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2017, 05:25:57 AM »
Lyle, yes you are on the list mate.

Mike, there are some that are not yet reserved.

Online tim lackey

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2017, 09:07:18 AM »
Just wanted to confirm that I was still on the list.
Thanks

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2017, 09:14:12 AM »
Brian,

If there are enough not reserved

I would like one set

V/R
Fred von Gortler
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Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Chris Belcher

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2017, 09:24:18 AM »
I'd like a set as well.

Online Randy Cuberly

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2017, 12:28:19 PM »
Brian,
I don't remember if I got into this order or not, but I am definitely interested in two sets!

If possible I'll send PayPal right away for two sets.

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2017, 04:10:05 PM »
Looking good Brian, consider me re-confirmed.  ;D
Pete Cunha
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Offline Mike Bufkin

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2017, 04:38:20 PM »
Lyle, yes you are on the list mate.

Mike, there are some that are not yet reserved.
Yes
Let me have your PayPal
One set will be fine
Thanks
Mike

Offline Steve Scott

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Re: LA46 ABC piston & liner sets? Please re-confirm
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2017, 08:13:48 PM »
Brian,

I'd like to get in on the offer for 1 set if still available.  If so, PM me with any PayPal or other accepted payment means.


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