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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Horby on September 21, 2015, 11:29:00 PM

Title: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Horby on September 21, 2015, 11:29:00 PM
Ok, now that the LA 25 is no more what will now take it's place for a trainer?  I might be involved with my sons local Air Cadets squadron to start a small club. Now that the LA 25 is gone what should be used for a trainer now. The LA 25 with a Flight Streak or Skyray was a perfect first plane, now what? What are others doing?

Cheers,
Warren
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Mark Scarborough on September 21, 2015, 11:59:00 PM
there are still TONS of them available

I know there is probably a dozen between the members of my RC club..
not new perhaps,, but servicable for sure
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Jim Roselle on September 22, 2015, 05:10:09 AM
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25465__ASP_S25A_Two_Stroke_Glow_Engine.html
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Avaiojet on September 22, 2015, 06:42:07 AM
My trainer was a JR Flite Streak and a Fox 15.

Not a bad combo and the Fox 15's are available new and used.
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Bill Johnson on September 22, 2015, 08:22:59 AM
I think the smart move is to start snatching up 25LAs and 25FPs off ebay. They are running about $50 and under brand new or slightly used. Buy as many as you think you'll need to support your program for the next 5 years.
The ASP engine weighs 50% more then the LA or FP.
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: peabody on September 22, 2015, 08:23:57 AM
The Brodak .25 has a lot of similar run characteristics as the LA .25.
It shows available on the Brodak site.

Have fun!
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Fredvon4 on September 22, 2015, 08:59:36 AM
BTW the Hobby King has a USA west AND east warehouse. The USA West warehouse has the $49 ASP 25s with remote needle and a RC carb. fairly easy to add a spigot and venturi. Near clone of the OS 25s and not bad value for the cost

Hint...with Hobby King try to never order from the Global or International warehouse as the shipping time and costs are unreasonable for all but the MUST have items

Hint two...If you log onto Hobby King..go ahead and create an account... not necessary--- but I find that with the account, their software offers me "buy it now discounts" faster than if I fail to log in

What is a "buy it now discount"?....Many items are coded to see if you are looking at them, and if you wait a bit with the item description open and scroll around and down to read reviews or whatever, the software opens a window offering to sell you that item a few bucks cheaper than listed

Hint three...never ever put an out of stock item in your cart and check out....royal pain sometimes cuz if it comes available but only at the global warehouse the shipping may be more than the item
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: C.T. Schaefer on September 22, 2015, 09:34:26 AM
I have the Brodak and the Enya .25SS Plain Bearing motors. Both are excellent!
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Bill Little on September 22, 2015, 11:05:36 AM
Has OS discontinued the R/C version???  I have all I will ever need, but wasn't aware that the R/C version is gone......

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Tim Wescott on September 22, 2015, 01:35:23 PM
Has OS discontinued the R/C version???  I have all I will ever need, but wasn't aware that the R/C version is gone......

It appears to have.  It seems like the market for cheap plain-bearing engines has dried up due to competition from cheap ball-bearing engines and cheap electric motors (with ball bearings, come to think of it).
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Horby on September 22, 2015, 11:03:22 PM
The Hobbyking motor looks like it would fit the bill.

W
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: frank mccune on September 23, 2015, 04:34:58 AM
      Hello ALL:

      Who needs a .25 engine that weighs 300g?

                                                                                                                Good luck,

                                                                                                                Frank McCune
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Fredvon4 on September 23, 2015, 07:09:44 AM
Yes the ASP 25 is more like the OS FX Max 25 with bearings(8.1 Oz no muffler) and weighs in at 8.4 Oz n mouffler and RC carb while the LA 25 is 6.9Oz with muffler, and carb
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: bob jablonski on September 23, 2015, 07:38:47 AM
K&b are getting ready to ship me a Batch of .28 control line engines bases on the Sportster RC engine. Should be on the way some time this week. And on my web store next weekend after they arrive. Along with some .40 engines.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
countylinehobbies@yahoo.com
www.countylinehobbies.com
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: FLOYD CARTER on September 23, 2015, 12:15:45 PM
One should avoid ordering from Hobby King's Hong Kong site.  I ordered a battery and paid by credit card.  My bank then called to ask if I had been active on a porn "dating" website.  In short, my credit card was stolen.

After I explained that, at 81 years, I have little interest in a porn website.  The bank cancelled those charges and issued a new credit card.
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Randy Cuberly on September 23, 2015, 12:41:16 PM
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25465__ASP_S25A_Two_Stroke_Glow_Engine.html

That is an ASP 25....It weighs 300 grams/10.5 oz and turns 18,000 RPM...I doubt it's going to make much of a stunt engine.

Randy Cuberly
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Peter Grabenstein on September 23, 2015, 01:14:34 PM
Ok, now that the LA 25 is no more what will now take it's place for a trainer?  I might be involved with my sons local Air Cadets squadron to start a small club. Now that the LA 25 is gone what should be used for a trainer now. The LA 25 with a Flight Streak or Skyray was a perfect first plane, now what? What are others doing?

Cheers,
Warren

Starting an Air Cadets squadron with an engine like a brick (ASP.25 300g), is the worst eng. to start with ,
because extra lead at the tail (Skyray) will kill any good flight Performance.
Go for a Plain Bearing crankshaft engine and you good to go ....after ...you will be "a happy camper".
Why ......because I have eyewitnessed at the local Club of Gran Canaria Island, Spain,
http://www.clubtamaran.com/index.htm
is running a Junior program for many years now with great success flying Enya plain bearings.
These engines are going strong after running in well.
My half Cent
 H^^    Peter
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Target on September 23, 2015, 01:31:34 PM
K&b are getting ready to ship me a Batch of .28 control line engines bases on the Sportster RC engine. Should be on the way some time this week. And on my web store next weekend after they arrive. Along with some .40 engines.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies

So you are getting some plain bearing .28 venturi and .40 plain bearing venturi engines?

What will they likely cost us, and how much will each weigh?
Thanks,
Chris
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Brett Buck on September 23, 2015, 01:33:48 PM
      Hello ALL:

      Who needs a .25 engine that weighs 300g?

  All-up? That's perfectly acceptable, if the power delivery characteristics are good.

    Brett
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Dane Martin on September 23, 2015, 01:38:33 PM
K&b are getting ready to ship me a Batch of .28 control line engines bases on the Sportster RC engine. Should be on the way some time this week. And on my web store next weekend after they arrive. Along with some .40 engines.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
countylinehobbies@yahoo.com
www.countylinehobbies.com

Hi Mr Bob! You should start a thread on this! That's great news
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Target on September 23, 2015, 01:40:10 PM
That is an ASP 25....It weighs 300 grams/10.5 oz and turns 18,000 RPM...I doubt it's going to make much of a stunt engine.

Randy Cuberly

Its sort of funny; I also thought that a BB engine was heavier than a plain bearing engine, and that the lower RPMs that are normally turned in control line, BB's were simply not necessary and added weight to planes that we want to keep light....
Here, down around post 115, I'm proven wrong by someone that I think frequents this forum and is a veteran C/L builder and flyer.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2416091&page=8

So, now I'm confused a bit, but likely to stick to my plain bearing guns. (if possible).
For this site owner, I mean not to detract from this site, I just wanted to point out that there appears to be lots of misinformation floating around.
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Randy Cuberly on September 23, 2015, 01:46:43 PM
  All-up? That's perfectly acceptable, if the power delivery characteristics are good.

    Brett

Hi Brett,
According to the engine specs on Hobby King the engine is ported to turn 18,000 RPM.
While I agree with your statement above I doubt that an engine with that much exhaust timing is going to give good stunt characteristics.

Also I doubt that 10.5 oz of engine, without muffler, on the front of the typical profile, or even a Nobler sized airplane, is going to make for a good CG position.  That is after all 1.5 oz heavier than an LA46.

Randy Cuberly
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: bob jablonski on September 23, 2015, 01:52:32 PM
The K &B .28 weight is 10 oz. Cost about $80.00 .  .40 13.5 oz around $150.00 . Prices will be official Friday.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Brett Buck on September 23, 2015, 01:55:42 PM
Hi Brett,
According to the engine specs on Hobby King the engine is ported to turn 18,000 RPM.
While I agree with your statement above I doubt that an engine with that much exhaust timing is going to give good stunt characteristics.

Also I doubt that 10.5 oz of engine, without muffler, on the front of the typical profile, or even a Nobler sized airplane, is going to make for a good CG position.  That is after all 1.5 oz heavier than an LA46.

Randy Cuberly

   I don't know anything about the run characteristics, but a good engine and some lead in the tail is a lot better than a mediocre engine that happens to balance. I certainly wouldn't reject any engine out of hand based solely on the weight. I am not sure what a 25FX and the supplied muffler weighs, but it works well as a stunt engine.

     The fact that it can run 18000 rpm also doesn't necessarily tell you anything, either. I think the 25FP is claimed to go 16,000+, too. Of course you aren't going to run it that way but it does suggest that the peak RPM is not a good figure of merit.

   Brett
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Randy Cuberly on September 23, 2015, 02:05:54 PM
Its sort of funny; I also though that a BB engine was heavier than a plain bearing engine, and that the lower RPMs that are normally turned in control line, BB's were simply not necessary and added weight to planes that we want to keep light....
Here, down around post 115, I'm proven wrong by someone that I think frequents this forum and is a veteran C/L builder and flyer.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2416091&page=8

So, now I'm confused a bit, but likely to stick to my plain bearing guns. (if possible).
For this site owner, I mean not to detract from this site, I just wanted to point out that there appears to be lots of misinformation floating around.

Well, maybe not so much "misinformation" as simple opinion!

While it's true that typically ball bearing engines weigh a bit more than plain bearing engines, that's not necessarily cast in stone.  There are other factors in the weight difference like the size and weight of the crankshaft and case castings.

Actually as brett said above the run characteristics of the engine are more important than the weight (within reason of course).  If the engine produces good torque in a relatively flat curve it will likely make a better stunt engine than one that produces gobs of horsepower at high RPM but has a torque curve that peaks and falls.   The latter will likely not produce stable consistent speed as it is loaded and unloaded in the stunt pattern.  Prop choices can of course greatly effect that situation but it will still be more difficult to control.

The port timing and configuration is in fact more important to make a good consistent stunt engine.  Ball bearings can actually be a plus because thier lower drag ratio can make it easier to control the speed differences with load.

The engine in question, in my opinion, has several strikes against it...not just it's weight!

Randy Cuberly
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: bob whitney on September 23, 2015, 03:13:21 PM

  the  15 they are using on the new sport good years on a flying clown would make a tough little shipthat will loop and fly inverted
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Brent Williams on September 23, 2015, 04:20:49 PM
Phil Cartier reported that the ASP 21A is a good engine once fitted with an appropriate cl venturi.  Weighs 233g/8.2oz

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8990__ASP_S21A_Two_Stroke_Glow_Engine_.html

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php/topic,35564.0.html


I came across this little motor at hobbypartz.com for as little as $40.  I wanted the 25 for the torque but this little one seems to work very well.  Weighs about the same as an FP25, but with a smaller, lighter muffler.  Of course is needs a new venturi and needle valve assembly.  I used the OS NVA in a home made venturi.  Just find a buddy with a 10inch lathe.  Sanye Mfg. seems to have come a looonnng way in quality since the last Magnum 35 I bought a few years ago.  This motor was very clean, tight, and seemed to have excellent machining and casting.  After about 30 runs is still is sqeaky tight right around top dead center.

I put it in place of a Thunder Tiger 25(nearly identical weight) and broke it in the modern way- multiple fast, rich runs on a 8/4 APC prop until it settled down and would hold a setting.  With a .265 venturi (LA25 size) it could make a good combat motor.  When set rich it would break into a screaming two cycle in a maneuver and then settle back to a 4 in level flight.  Finally ended up with a .235in venturi and a 10/4 prop.  This runs about 9800rpm on the ground, doesn't speed up much in the air, and has a fairly soft break with moderate speed up in maneuvers.  The motor is very easy to start and runs very steadily.  57-58 ft lines giving a 4.8 sec. or so lap seems about right for a 29oz. plane.  Sucking fuel out of a Sullivan SS-4 uniflow tank it takes about 2.5oz of fuel for 6.5 minutes.

Since the muffler is pretty small and short a little longer custom muffler may give more "tuned pipe" like results.  I believe it would work well on most 400+ profile stunt trainers.

(http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=35564.0;attach=147692;image)
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Target on September 23, 2015, 05:19:19 PM
Thanks Randy/All.

R,
Chris
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Scott B. Riese on September 23, 2015, 07:06:20 PM
      Hello ALL:

      Who needs a .25 engine that weighs 300g?

                                                                                                                Good luck,

                                                                                                                Frank McCune
BAD FRANK....It's the best engine out there for NEW and Old Flyers for planes under 425sq
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: Peter Grabenstein on September 23, 2015, 10:12:40 PM
Its sort of funny; I also thought that a BB engine was heavier than a plain bearing engine, and that the lower RPMs that are normally turned in control line, BB's were simply not necessary and added weight to planes that we want to keep light....
Here, down around post 115, I'm proven wrong by someone that I think frequents this forum and is a veteran C/L builder and flyer.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2416091&page=8

So, now I'm confused a bit, but likely to stick to my plain bearing guns. (if possible).
For this site owner, I mean not to detract from this site, I just wanted to point out that there appears to be lots of misinformation floating around.

Talking about the link above.
I am sure, the short nose of an "Ole Tiger",Profile, can handle a Merco.35 BB.
An ASP .25BB in a SIG Banshee nose is for sure a NO-GO.
My half Cent
Peter  H^^
 
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: dave siegler on September 24, 2015, 10:57:27 AM
The combat guys use the .21 ( real light) .25 and .32.  they can deal whit the weight. 
Title: Re: LA 25 is gone now what?
Post by: dennis lipsett on September 24, 2015, 11:50:15 AM
The K &B .28 weight is 10 oz. Cost about $80.00 .  .40 13.5 oz around $150.00 . Prices will be official Friday.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies

Bob,

I've had K&B 28 engines converted quite awhile ago and have been really pleased with them. The weight of 10 oz is not a deterrence to good flying models. I'll enclose a picture of one on a primary force that behaves more like a 4 cycle than a two cycle. Jim Lee made the venturis for me and the nva's are Randy's.
They do require a fair amount of break in and 5/22 works well in them. Give it enough bench time before flying it and it will last forever. They are also really cheap on fuel