Brodak 40 availability - what's the story?

[Keith Miller]

I pranged my Brodak 40 the other day - snapped off the muffler and also broke off one of the mating bosses on the crankcase.  Fortunately, Brodak has some crankcases in stock and I was able to score a muffler. 
But I've noticed that the 40 engine has been OOS for months, and when they show up on eSmay (a rarity), they're going for double the retail.

Has anyone heard the story?

[Clint Ormosen]

....and people thought I was nuts for buying a bunch of them to stash.   

[Lyle Spiegel]

I can relate. After getting my first B40 several years ago I also crashed and broke out hole in case. Tried to order new case and told it was out of stock. The case was sent to Scott Dinger in Simi valley who did weld repair. Total $ spent to ship both ways and cost for repair  exceed 50% of new engine. Scott did great  repair job. Then was advised to replace P&L since engine was early version and later versions have better P&L. I priced out parts and was amazed to learn  P&L sold as separate parts intend of a matched fitted set. It was then I realized better option was to simply buy complete engine and I would have complete set of spare parts.  That led me to buy a"few" more B40 and little by little I accumulated more than a "few". Don't want to admit how many in my possesion(only Bill Hummel knows size of my stash))but many more than I ever could wear out. Best engine ever next to the few 46LA 's I have that were setup by Byron B before he left us.

[James_Mynes]

I can relate. After getting my first B40 several years ago I also crashed and broke out hole in case. Tried to order new case and told it was out of stock. The case was sent to Scott Dinger in Simi valley who did weld repair. Total $ spent to ship both ways and cost for repair  exceed 50% of new engine. Scott did great  repair job. Then was advised to replace P&L since engine was early version and later versions have better P&L. I priced out parts and was amazed to learn  P&L sold as separate parts intend of a matched fitted set. It was then I realized better option was to simply buy complete engine and I would have complete set of spare parts.  That led me to buy a"few" more B40 and little by little I accumulated more than a "few". Don't want to admit how many in my possesion(only Bill Hummel knows size of my stash))but many more than I ever could wear out. Best engine ever next to the few 46LA 's I have that were setup by Byron B before he left us.

This Byron B you speak of, is it Byron Bednar? If so, he has not left us. He is alive and well, living in Palmetto, FL.

[peabody]

John recently told me of his frustrations dealing with the manufacturers of the B-40. If it wasn't such a great product, I am xertain that he would drop them because of the delays....

[Mike Griffin]

Hi Jim

I think Lyle was referring to Byron Barker.

Mike

[Dick Pacini]

I bought 4 of the 40's and 4 of the 25's whenever they were available.  I also bought LA 46's and LA 25's in like quantities.  I think I have a few EVO 36's and 1 EVO 60CL.  Lastly, I have a ST 51.  All but one of these engines, save 1 of the B40's is still NIB.

I have turned into a hoarder of sorts regarding model airplane stuff.  You never know when the items we depend on will go out of production.  Back in the early 70's, I couldn't afford more than 1 of anything.  When I needed a new engine, it was a struggle.

So, today, I stock up on stuff because the day will probably come when I finally retire and can't afford the toys anymore.  Then, I will have a whole stockpile of goodies to wade through...probably a lifetime's worth.

[Peter Grabenstein]

Well...maybe the number of backorders is still to small for the factory in Moldavia to start a new series of B40tees.
Maybe they have other priority's they work on meanwhile.
I have one B40 which is a GREAT 4-2-4 runner using a SIG Banshee for a testbench.
Sold the Banshee to a Flight-Streak Pilot and bolted the B40 into my new T-F ARF Nobler which is
waiting for its maiden flight spring next year.
Sure like to have a second (spare) B40 but when will this one show up ?.
Maybe John Brodak knows better what is going on in Moldavia.
Should I jump on the waitinglist ? .

GER-1223

[John Rist]

I heard that John has to prepay for the B40.  The unstable political conditions in that neck of the woods makes it a risky investment.

[Steve Helmick]

The Magnum XLS .36 (no longer in production) is a nice engine, maybe an ounce heavier than the B.40. There should be an ASP version still available from Hobby King for a reasonable price. They do need a venturi, NV Assy. and a lighter muffler isn't a bad idea, tho the stock muffler isn't horrible. They're real ABC, start very willingly, last for many gallons of fuel, and a great match for the TT Cyclone 11 x 4.5 prop. Not as nice as an Aero Tiger .36, but fairly close. I gave one to Tim and wondering if he'd give it back, since he dorked the "KISS!" It only had about 20 gallons of 10-22 through it. Steve

[Allan Perret]

The Magnum XLS .36 (no longer in production) is a nice engine, maybe an ounce heavier than the B.40. There should be an ASP version still available from Hobby King for a reasonable price. They do need a venturi, NV Assy. and a lighter muffler isn't a bad idea, tho the stock muffler isn't horrible. They're real ABC, start very willingly, last for many gallons of fuel, and a great match for the TT Cyclone 11 x 4.5 prop. Not as nice as an Aero Tiger .36, but fairly close. I gave one to Tim and wondering if he'd give it back, since he dorked the "KISS!" It only had about 20 gallons of 10-22 through it. Steve

I have a XLS-36 on a Primary Force been trying to get it sorted out.  Tried several different hot plugs; both 5 & 10 nitro, .260 venture with .156 NVA, 11-4 MAS S2 prop that actually measures closer to a 3 pitch, 3.3 one blade and 3.5 on the other.  It only wants to run in a fast 2 which is too fast.  Cant get it run in wet 2, when I try just a little richer setting than the fast 2 it goes into a 4-2 burbling run which is too slow.  Added 3 layers of panty hose, same thing.  I have some of those TT 11-4.5's, will try next time out.  Also ordered .250 and .270 venturies from J. Lee.  Any other ideas ?

[Peter Grabenstein]

I have a XLS-36 on a Primary Force been trying to get it sorted out.  Tried several different hot plugs; both 5 & 10 nitro, .260 venture with .156 NVA, 11-4 MAS S2 prop that actually measures closer to a 3 pitch, 3.3 one blade and 3.5 on the other.  It only wants to run in a fast 2 which is too fast.  Cant get it run in wet 2, when I try just a little richer setting than the fast 2 it goes into a 4-2 burbling run which is too slow.  Added 3 layers of panty hose, same thing.  I have some of those TT 11-4.5's, will try next time out.  Also ordered .250 and .270 venturies from J. Lee.  Any other ideas ?

Did you ever try Enya Glow Plug No.3 ?. If not, give them a try.

[Bob Reeves]

I have a XLS-36 on a Primary Force been trying to get it sorted out.  Tried several different hot plugs; both 5 & 10 nitro, .260 venture with .156 NVA, 11-4 MAS S2 prop that actually measures closer to a 3 pitch, 3.3 one blade and 3.5 on the other.  It only wants to run in a fast 2 which is too fast.  Cant get it run in wet 2, when I try just a little richer setting than the fast 2 it goes into a 4-2 burbling run which is too slow.  Added 3 layers of panty hose, same thing.  I have some of those TT 11-4.5's, will try next time out.  Also ordered .250 and .270 venturies from J. Lee.  Any other ideas ?

Just an opinion.. You have an RC engine timed to do nothing but go fast. The only way to tame it without a major rework is to add head shims and choke down the intake till it has about as much power as a Fox 15. In this case your easiest way out is to stick a Fox 35 on the airplane and deal with it's idiosyncrasy's or use an FP 25 and let it rev.

[Allan Perret]

Just an opinion.. You have an RC engine timed to do nothing but go fast. The only way to tame it without a major rework is to add head shims and choke down the intake till it has about as much power as a Fox 15. In this case your easiest way out is to stick a Fox 35 on the airplane and deal with it's idiosyncrasy's or use an FP 25 and let it rev.

Seems that several years ago some had reported getting good stunt runs pretty much stock so I thought I would give it a shot.

[Joe Yau]

I have a XLS-36 on a Primary Force been trying to get it sorted out.  Tried several different hot plugs; both 5 & 10 nitro, .260 venture with .156 NVA, 11-4 MAS S2 prop that actually measures closer to a 3 pitch, 3.3 one blade and 3.5 on the other.  It only wants to run in a fast 2 which is too fast.  Cant get it run in wet 2, when I try just a little richer setting than the fast 2 it goes into a 4-2 burbling run which is too slow.  Added 3 layers of panty hose, same thing.  I have some of those TT 11-4.5's, will try next time out.  Also ordered .250 and .270 venturies from J. Lee.  Any other ideas ?

What muffler are you using?

[Allan Perret]

What muffler are you using?

Its an Enya tube style, think it came my 40XZS.  Probably used that one because it was the only tube style I had that fit it, and it wasn't heavy like most factory mufflers, at only 1.5oz.  It does not have any baffles and outlet is just under 5/16" at .306".   
I do have a tongue to fit it, which looks to be less restrictive..

[Steve Helmick]

Regarding the XLS .36...I used a .272" venturi, and have used the .46LA muffler and the stock Magnum muffler.
Ran a lot of Powermaster 10-22, but also some 10-18, launch at 9,500 to 9,700. I have one in Monty Summac's old Olympic...need to get that back in the air. Needs longer LG legs for pavement!  A Randy Aero CNC Tube muffler should work with pretty similar results. It worked very well for Monty with his homemade tube muffler. I used a Thunderbolt long idle bar, sometimes a Thunderbolt 4-cycle plug. The TT Cyclone 11 x 4.5 is really a magical prop for that engine. I also tried 11-4 Power Point and 11-4 MA Scimitar S-2. Both worked about the same...had to really howl to get up enough speed...I think over 11k launch. There is an 11-5 Scimitar S-2, I think...might be better. I don't understand why their pitches are so far under nominal.

A couple ideas...1) Too little break-in 2) Too small a venturi 3) Not enough head clearance 4) Maybe bad bearings.

1) These engines are not high precision stuff, so may need some extra running to come in. Still, they're better made than a Fox .35 Stunt... and real ABC! GMA liked Magnums because they were real ABC and had (generally) a reasonable "pinch" when NIB. Like a Fox, you may have to mess with them to "get all the screws in the right place".

2) Too small a venturi can be a bad thing. Less fuel = less oil and less cooling. More fuel is often much better!

3) Mike (Haverly) had one XLS .36 that had an extra head gasket in it, from the factory. He took the second gasket out, and discovered that the piston was hitting the head with only one gasket. Ooops! Won't run good that way! Probably, the factory counterbored the case too deep for the cylinder flange? Lowered the timing...hmmm. 

4) I don't believe I've ever had a problem with a ball bearing failure in an engine, unless it got dirt in it and got a "hitch" in it. Shaft runs on speed engines, combat engines pounded into the sod, free flight engines pounded into the rocky prairie, etc. No shredded retainers, no problems. But I really don't trust Chinese ball bearings, either. Not on my boat trailer, not in my engines. If you have a problem with them, consult with Boca Bearing.  Steve

[Allan Perret]

Regarding the XLS .36...I used a .272" venturi, and have used the .46LA muffler and the stock Magnum muffler.
Ran a lot of Powermaster 10-22, but also some 10-18, launch at 9,500 to 9,700. I have one in Monty Summac's old Olympic...need to get that back in the air. Needs longer LG legs for pavement!  A Randy Aero CNC Tube muffler should work with pretty similar results. It worked very well for Monty with his homemade tube muffler. I used a Thunderbolt long idle bar, sometimes a Thunderbolt 4-cycle plug. The TT Cyclone 11 x 4.5 is really a magical prop for that engine. I also tried 11-4 Power Point and 11-4 MA Scimitar S-2. Both worked about the same...had to really howl to get up enough speed...I think over 11k launch. There is an 11-5 Scimitar S-2, I think...might be better. I don't understand why their pitches are so far under nominal.

A couple ideas...1) Too little break-in 2) Too small a venturi 3) Not enough head clearance 4) Maybe bad bearings.

1) These engines are not high precision stuff, so may need some extra running to come in. Still, they're better made than a Fox .35 Stunt... and real ABC! GMA liked Magnums because they were real ABC and had (generally) a reasonable "pinch" when NIB. Like a Fox, you may have to mess with them to "get all the screws in the right place".

2) Too small a venturi can be a bad thing. Less fuel = less oil and less cooling. More fuel is often much better!

3) Mike (Haverly) had one XLS .36 that had an extra head gasket in it, from the factory. He took the second gasket out, and discovered that the piston was hitting the head with only one gasket. Ooops! Won't run good that way! Probably, the factory counterbored the case too deep for the cylinder flange? Lowered the timing...hmmm. 

4) I don't believe I've ever had a problem with a ball bearing failure in an engine, unless it got dirt in it and got a "hitch" in it. Shaft runs on speed engines, combat engines pounded into the sod, free flight engines pounded into the rocky prairie, etc. No shredded retainers, no problems. But I really don't trust Chinese ball bearings, either. Not on my boat trailer, not in my engines. If you have a problem with them, consult with Boca Bearing.  Steve

Funny thing about Master Airscrew, their S-2 Scimitar's are typically one pitch under, but their Wood series are one pitch over ??

I will try the .270 venturi when it gets here, along with the Cyclone 11-4.5.  Engine has about 25 flights on it and I think maybe 10 bench runs.  Bearings feel like new..

[Chad Hill]

I can relate. After getting my first B40 several years ago I also crashed and broke out hole in case. Tried to order new case and told it was out of stock. The case was sent to Scott Dinger in Simi valley who did weld repair. Total $ spent to ship both ways and cost for repair  exceed 50% of new engine. Scott did great  repair job. Then was advised to replace P&L since engine was early version and later versions have better P&L. I priced out parts and was amazed to learn  P&L sold as separate parts intend of a matched fitted set. It was then I realized better option was to simply buy complete engine and I would have complete set of spare parts.  That led me to buy a"few" more B40 and little by little I accumulated more than a "few". Don't want to admit how many in my possesion(only Bill Hummel knows size of my stash))but many more than I ever could wear out. Best engine ever next to the few 46LA 's I have that were setup by Byron B before he left us.

I bought a spare P&L for a B25 several years ago when they were available. They did not come as a matched set, which struck me as odd, and I put them away without checking the fit (silly me). Took them out recently and sure enough, the fit is terrible. There is very little pinch at TDC and compression is almost nil...

[Lyle Spiegel]

To best of my knowledge,there is no other engine mfg company where spare piston or liner is packaged & sold separately ( referrIng only to lapped setup ).  Always sold as a fitted set. Makes no sense why Brodak does it like they do.

[Chad Hill]

I have been told that the manufacturer did not supply Brodak with any extra parts for the B25, and that new engines were disassembled to provide customers with spare parts. Apparently they did not keep the P&Ls paired together as a set when they were removed from the engines, and then sold them separately.

[Dennis Moritz]

There have been many tales told about why the B40 supply is so intermittent. Some dicey. Some dull and ordinary. Too bad they're not in abundance. Fox 35 light, of modern AAC design, nice stunt friendly break. When set up correctly they have the kind of run that makes you turn your head.

[Allan Perret]

Regarding the XLS .36...I used a .272" venturi, and have used the .46LA muffler and the stock Magnum muffler.
Ran a lot of Powermaster 10-22, but also some 10-18, launch at 9,500 to 9,700. I have one in Monty Summac's old Olympic...need to get that back in the air. Needs longer LG legs for pavement!  A Randy Aero CNC Tube muffler should work with pretty similar results. It worked very well for Monty with his homemade tube muffler. I used a Thunderbolt long idle bar, sometimes a Thunderbolt 4-cycle plug. The TT Cyclone 11 x 4.5 is really a magical prop for that engine. I also tried 11-4 Power Point and 11-4 MA Scimitar S-2. Both worked about the same...had to really howl to get up enough speed...I think over 11k launch. There is an 11-5 Scimitar S-2, I think...might be better. I don't understand why their pitches are so far under nominal.

A couple ideas...1) Too little break-in 2) Too small a venturi 3) Not enough head clearance 4) Maybe bad bearings.

1) These engines are not high precision stuff, so may need some extra running to come in. Still, they're better made than a Fox .35 Stunt... and real ABC! GMA liked Magnums because they were real ABC and had (generally) a reasonable "pinch" when NIB. Like a Fox, you may have to mess with them to "get all the screws in the right place".

2) Too small a venturi can be a bad thing. Less fuel = less oil and less cooling. More fuel is often much better!

3) Mike (Haverly) had one XLS .36 that had an extra head gasket in it, from the factory. He took the second gasket out, and discovered that the piston was hitting the head with only one gasket. Ooops! Won't run good that way! Probably, the factory counterbored the case too deep for the cylinder flange? Lowered the timing...hmmm. 

4) I don't believe I've ever had a problem with a ball bearing failure in an engine, unless it got dirt in it and got a "hitch" in it. Shaft runs on speed engines, combat engines pounded into the sod, free flight engines pounded into the rocky prairie, etc. No shredded retainers, no problems. But I really don't trust Chinese ball bearings, either. Not on my boat trailer, not in my engines. If you have a problem with them, consult with Boca Bearing.  Steve

Thanks for the help Steve.  The .270 venturi did the trick,  can set it for a stable 4-cycle now.  Also my engine/tank setup seems to prefer pressure.  Now there is almost no change in RPM from launch to in flight.  Before there was such an increase I had to launch with it really rich.  Also I'm getting up there in the run time now and its sounding better.

[Steve Helmick]

Good news, Alan! It should be real happy with the TT Cyclone 11 x 4.5 (of course!), and run plenty long with around 4 oz of 10-22 sort of fuel.

As to the B.40 and B.25, they are made by the same folks that make Double Star (2Star) engines of their own design. It's likely that they make other stuff first and 2Star engines second, and Brodak engines third, in order of importance. Based, of course, on what pays the bills. Just like Fox and RJL and I believe, RO-Jett. I think Brodak probably negotiated a real good price at a time when they were hurting for work (and US$), and is holding firm, while inflation eats away at the factory's profit margin. No, I don't know exactly where Moldova is, but it is a former Soviet State over yonder. It's not on MapQuest, AFAIK.  Steve

[Balsa Butcher]

FWIW: It is unfair to put Ro-Jett in the same category as the late, great, Fox, 2-Star, RJL, etc. They are unique. You talk to Dub directly, order the engine, he tells you when it will be ready...and it is. No guessing, no drama. Longest I have ever had to wait was 6 weeks.  A better way of doing business than the others listed.