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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Bill Adair on May 17, 2014, 07:49:53 PM
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Hi Folks,
I recently purchased a Sterling Viper kit (which I'd never seen before) at a very reasonable price, and was showing it around at the club field, in an attempt to get some information, or history on the kit. A fellow club member says "I have one of those, so wait until I get mine out of the car". Back he comes with a near identical airplane, but obviously for a 35 or larger engine, and not half-A size like my kit!
So now I've seen two versions of this c/l sport/stunt airplane design that I didn't know existed.
Anyone have any knowledge or experience with either of these designs? I've read a few comments by Jim Thomerson, and he speaks highly of the half-A Viper flying qualities.
Next time I saw my friend at the field he told me that he found out the name of his airplane, and that it's a Talon, and not a Viper like mine. Did extensive Google searches for the Talon, and found the it was a Kostecki design kitted by Jetco, but there my leads ran out.
I'd like to scratch build the Viper with parts tracings from my kit, but it must be one of the early kits from this series because the die cutting is super sharp. I doubt that pencil transfer will work, so I'm looking for any parts drawings that might be available.
Any help appreciated.
Bill
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If you have a copier that does not distort things, just tape the parts to a sheet of paper and copy. Yes, the little Viper 1/2A was quite a plane for its size. Mine had a Medallion .049 for power.
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Hi Doc,
Thanks for the reply. H^^
I'm trying to keep the kit intact even though the decal sheet is missing. I was hoping to avoid punching the parts out, but may end up doing just that.
Cute little airplane, but those points on the ends of the stab and fin tips look like a bugger to cover with an iron on film.
Bill
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another option would be to lay a peice of onion skin or tracing paper over the parts sheets,, then using the side of a pencil rub lightly across it like you would over a coin or something,, you should be able to get a trace that way without popping the parts out
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I just put the die cut sheets in the copier and the copies are surprising good.
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Hello Bill
I don`t think that Jetco produced any Kostecky Talon stunter kits. The design appeared in the Dec 1966 Flying models magazine. I was building one when I left home to join the Air Force. I still have the plan and hope to build one in the future. There is a photo of the plane in the Pampa site in the picture gallery. A very beautiful model.
Juan
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Mark,
I forgot about the tracing paper part, but will pick some up since the grandkids can use it if I don't.
Christ,
Neat idea! I didn't know that little trick, but it certainly sounds easier than tracing, or punching out parts.
Juan,
Years ago I might have considered building a Viper, and a Kostecky Talon in matching trim, but at my age I'll be darned lucky if I ever finish the half-A version! D>K
Thanks for the info on the Kostecky Talon build article! I notice there is also a Talon Stunt by Dave Rees, but it is modeled after the T-38 Talon fighter jet.
Bill
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The Jetco Talon was an A-2 towline free flight glider. I don't think any of Kostecky's designs were kitted. I may be wrong but don't ever remember seeing any mention of them or adds in the old mags.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Hi Dan,
The 80" span Jetco Talon sailplane kept popping up on Google every time I did a search! Didn't matter if I added c/l, stunt, or anything else that I could think of as a qualifier to narrow the search! HB~>
I would like to see the Kostecky Talon plans, and compare them to the Sterling Viper. They look so much alike it almost has to be a scale down for half-A.
Bill
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I had 2 Viper kits which I purchased in 1980. I recently sold both of them but I weighed both boxes with their full contents. I was somewhat taking back by the differences. I just loved the fact it was a full bodied 1/2A. While I always wanted to build it, I never did. I never saw one EVER built until approx 4 years ago. At one of our club picnics a fellow showed up with this cool little 1/2A strapped to the back of his motorcycle. Sure enough it was a Viper. Beautiful job this fellow did on this plane as well. To my surprise it had a Babe Bee in the nose swinging a slightly larger prop than I would've preferred. I honestly don't think I ever would've thought that plane would've flew as well as it did. I would certainly guarantee anyone with building experience could make major improvements on this model. One thing I just don't care for is the diamond shaped airfoils. Ken
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My favorite Sterling 1/2A was the Space Kaydet,which came out in 1952, thus OTS legal. It was quickly changed to Space Master, over copyright issues, maybe. Barry Baxter has a very good set of plans. Back in the day, I built two of them; one with McCoy 049 diesel, and the other with an Atwood 049.
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Hi Dan,
I would like to see the Kostecky Talon plans, and compare them to the Sterling Viper. They look so much alike it almost has to be a scale down for half-A.
Bill
Kostecky Talon, December 1966 Flying Models
KT
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Ken,
Wish I had two Viper kits, so I could rat hole one, and build the other.
Probably not unusual for Sterling kits to vary in weight. Some of the kit wood I saw looked like, and weighed about the same as hardwood. Perhaps they had two lumber stacks to pick from? ;D
If (and that's a big if) I ever get around to building a Viper - I doubt I'll use the diamond airfoil that the kit shows.
Bill
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Jim,
Had to look that one up. The Sterling Space Master is also an attractive design, and looks a bit easier to build.
The McCoy .049 diesel should be a great engine for either design, and I love the little jewels.
Didn't you use a McCoy diesel in your Viper?
Bill
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If I remember correctly the main reason for the diamond airfoil on the Viper was ease of building for beginners. The wing could be built flat on the table.
George
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Jim Hoffman built and flew a Kostecky Talon at VSC many years ago. He let me fly it then, and I thought it was a great flying airplane. In fact I intended to build one but ran into health problems for several years and it fell by the wayside. I have plans but will likely never get around to it now. Too many airplanes in process now!
Randy Cuberly
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Hi Geo,
I've heard that too, but don't think I believe it.
More likely a cost savings in balsa, as those diamond shapes can be cut a lot closer together than conventional ribs.
Bill
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Randy,
Appreciate the good report on your Talon flight. Looking at the plans Keith posted it appears to be a complex build, so I'll not likely try one.
Sorry to hear of your health issues.
I've had poor vision for years (cataracts), but recently had one eye fixed (20-20 again!), and have surgery scheduled to fix the other eye. Now that I can almost see what I'm doing - the urge to build is coming back. Just hope the other minor issues like balance problems, and unsteady hands don't get any worse for a long time.
Bill
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The plans that Keith posted don't look anything like a Sterling Viper - I wonder if the original post was referring to some other 'Talon' or some other Kostecky design.
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Randy,
Appreciate the good report on your Talon flight. Looking at the plans Keith posted it appears to be a complex build, so I'll not likely try one.
Sorry to hear of your health issues.
I've had poor vision for years (cataracts), but recently had one eye fixed (20-20 again!), and have surgery scheduled to fix the other eye. Now that I can almost see what I'm doing - the urge to build is coming back. Just hope the other minor issues like balance problems, and unsteady hands don't get any worse for a long time.
Bill
Thanks Bill,
Fortunately the health issues are in the past now. atrial Fibrilation that was taken care of by Cardiac Ablation Surgery. It took 2 times on the table about 5 months apart but I've been good now for about 4 years. I had to stop flying for about 5 years because of it but going strong again now and flying better than ever. Just too many airplanes on the Bucket List!
Hope your eye problem is fully corrected. My wife had cataract surgery about 10 years ago and it was very successful!
Gettin' old is a tough battle...but best not to lose it!
Randy Cuberly
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The plans that Keith posted don't look anything like a Sterling Viper - I wonder if the original post was referring to some other 'Talon' or some other Kostecky design.
Mike,
Your right, and once I got the plans (thanks to Keith) I could see the differences.
See my first post.
A friend in my club saw my Sterling Viper kit at the field one day, and showed me a 35 size almost identical airplane he bought at a swap meet with no engine. It had a full removeable cowl which appeared to have been carefully fit for some engine, but my friend did not know at that time what airplane it was. A few days later he told me it was a Talon, so I searched the net for that airplane. The closest picture I could find was the Kostecky Talon, but as mentioned it apparently is not the same design.
Bill
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Randy,
Now that sounds serious, but I'm glad to hear you came through the treatment well.
When I read Cardiac Ablation in your post, I pictured heat shield ablation during reentry of a space vehicle, but could not visualize a similar activity in ones chest cavity! ???
I should see my friend (with the airplane he calls a Talon) sometime this week, and will get a better look at what he has.
Bill
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The detail that I notice is the 'pointy' extensions at the stab tips/rudder tip on both the Talon and the Viper. Makes me think that there is at least some Kostecky influence both of the designs. But I'm not familiar enough with his designs to recognize any specific plane.
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Here is a link to a picture in the PAMPA site that shows the talon Stunter in the picture gallery that shows the classic designs:
http://www.control-line.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=23
Juan
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Juan!
That link takes me to the photo index page, but not to a category that I can recognize. Could you please narrow it down a bit?
Bill
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Hello Bill
In that link go to the bottom of the page there you will select Classic Designs (101) in the second page of that album picture#659 shows the Talon Stunter by Kostecky.
Juan
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Juan,
Thanks again.
I found both pictures, but the information does not name the airplane, or the builder.
How did you ever find that photo among all the hundreds of photos on that sight? ???
Bill
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Hello Bill
I saw the photo and recognized the plane since I built one in 1969 but was not able to finish it because I joined the service and had to go to basic training. When I came back the termites had damaged the plane and I discarded it. I hope to build another one in the future.I Still have the Dec 1966 Flying models issue and a plan I bought from FM. Jim Kosteky built other airplanes Like the Cutlass, Formula S and the Patriot. I really like the way he did the painting and graphics.
Juan
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Hello Bill
I saw the photo and recognized the plane since I built one in 1969 but was not able to finish it because I joined the service and had to go to basic training. When I came back the termites had damaged the plane and I discarded it. I hope to build another one in the future.I Still have the Dec 1966 Flying models issue and a plan I bought from FM. Jim Kosteky built other airplanes Like the Cutlass, Formula S and the Patriot. I really like the way he did the painting and graphics.
Juan
Since you mentioned the Formula S, which definitely shows the Kostecky influence and is in my opinion one of the best of the whole lot of Classic Stunt Planes, I will show a picture of Bob Whitely with his VSC Winning Formula S. I've flown this one also and think it's very near perfect...It's like "mind" flying when you fly it!
Randy Cuberly