Kits vs Scratch Building from Plans

[Mike Griffin]

I am wondering if anyone has ever done a cost analysis difference between Buying a kit of a certain model and then building that same model from plans.
It would be interesting to see what the difference would be.  Some of these kits are now in excess of $300.00. How much would one save by building that same model by buying the balsa and plans.

Just a thought

Mike

[Paul Taylor]

I have often wondered myself.
I’m not a fan of cutting and sanding a stack of ribs.
If I ever buy another vinyl cutter I’m getting one that can cut balsa. 😉

[Rusty]

I can answer that.   Scratch building is WAY, WAY cheaper.   This is especially true if you have a collection of balsa & ply that you bought a long time ago.   Look at the classified ads for laser cut ribs.   Cutting your own ribs is almost comparing pennies to dollars.   For my twister I just finished, I think I used 4 sheets of 3/32 x 3 x 36.  They're like 2 bucks a sheet when I last bought some. 

[Dave Rigotti]

What on a Twister is made from 1/32 balsa?

I can answer that.   Scratch building is WAY, WAY cheaper.   This is especially true if you have a collection of balsa & ply that you bought a long time ago.   Look at the classified ads for laser cut ribs.   Cutting your own ribs is almost comparing pennies to dollars.   For my twister I just finished, I think I used 4 sheets of 1/32 x 3 x 36.  They're like 2 bucks a sheet when I last bought some.

[Crist Rigotti]

When scratch building, I can buy the contest balsa needed and select the grain too.  It's very expensive but builds a better model.  I'm guessing a kit does not contain all contest balsa and thus delivers an inferior product.

[Dave_Trible]

I build 98% of everything from scratch.   A few years ago it was usually a little cheaper to do that than buy a kit and as Crist said you can be choosy about the materials that way.   It can be a little hard to figure though depending on certain things.   For example I buy plywood in sheets that are two feet by four feet.   This is expensive up front but you can build several airplanes from it.  In the last couple years the prices of the staples like balsa have gotten seriously more expensive and with few stocking hobby shops around and fewer sources you are generally ordering it on line and of course paying much higher shipping costs.  Worse,  when you can't see and pick your own wood and will surely have a percentage you wouldn't want to use,  you are left with ordering some margin more of it to cover the loss.   Few sources for hardware and few options for the other items means we are undoubtedly paying quite a bit more now to scratch build.   That makes those kit prices look more reasonable .   The main problem now is there are fewer choices in kits as well.
I had a well known flying buddy in the 70's who would buy a Shark 45 kit just to use the ribs to build his 'own' design airplanes-just chucked the rest of the kit.  To me such a waste.   Cutting a set of ribs really isn't that much a challenge.   Admittedly I have a little practice at it but with the root and tip rib templates made I can produce a full set of ribs for a normal stunt ship ready to use in 5-6 hours.   These days there are those who can laser out a set for you.  It's not that much of a challenge.   With fewer kit options but tons of good designs you can build it may be a good time to look at making /or getting made your own rib sets.  Another 'out' had been getting a foam wing done for you.   Not sure that option is still open for most so again ,  look into cutting.

Dave

[Rusty]

What on a Twister is made from 1/32 balsa?

Nothing!  Typo- 3/32 for the ribs. 

[Ken Culbertson]

Assuming we are talking PA, out of 33 ships only a Nobler (my first PA) a Skylark built in a USAF Hobby shop and a Dolphin I built in a hurry as a backup in 1964 were kits.  Only recently have I bothered with plans.  I do not recommend this for anyone.  It leads to misaligned heavy planes.  Going forward there will always be plans but kits, not likely.

Ken

[EricV]

I am wondering if anyone has ever done a cost analysis difference between Buying a kit of a certain model and then building that same model from plans.
It would be interesting to see what the difference would be.  Some of these kits are now in excess of $300.00. How much would one save by building that same model by buying the balsa and plans.

Just a thought

Mike

I think a lot of it has to do with how much you feel compelled to "upgrade" the kit Mike. If you build it box stock with supplied controls (assuming it comes with, at minimum, competent controls and hardware) then you might be at a wash.

Once you start upgrading, you might as well scratch build and you could easily be ahead of the game at today's prices. For instance, back in the day when you bought a Brodak Legacy kit for around $110, it was a real bargain. It had reasonable weight clear straight wood, a competent scaled up TF style bellcrank, nothing that would hold you back from reaching the average users potential. You could spring for an arrow shaft, and still be way ahead using everything in the box, and you could reshape the rudder and wingtips and canopy placement to your hearts content. Today a Legacy kit is $250. That might get you re-thinking things, especially if you are going to switch it to ball links, pin hinges, etc etc.

At todays prices, well, a short kit maybe and DIY hardware might get you where you want to go if buying balsa through a laser cutting service... I dunno. Everyone likes to do things different.

EricV

[Steve Helmick]

There are, or have been, some excellent kits with nice hand cut or laser cut parts. Randy Smith, Pat Johnston, RSM, Walter Umland, Ultra Hobbies and Brodak...probably more, just here in the USA. Most of those will (or were) willing to sell just a set of laser cut wing ribs. I hear that Brodak will sell a wing kit or just ribs. I bought ribs only from Randy and RSM.

An anonymous club member built a really nice "Gee Bee Stunter" (Bob Miller?) from FM plans, but used whatever wood (balsa, presumably) he had on hand or got from Tower Hobby (etc.). It is flyable with 8 oz of nose weight and .46LA. Shocking, huh? Price isn't everything.    Steve

[Jim Svitko]

I have gone completely to sheeted foam wings so my main concern is sheeting weight.  Good balsa is costly but I am after the time saving.  Lately, I have managed to get some 5 lb 1/16 at a reasonable cost.

The sheeted foam has worked well for me.  Much faster, much easier to keep straight.  Building the rest of the plane goes fairly fast.

I have not built a kit in over 40 years.  The cost of the foam wing, plus all the sheeting and adhesive, probably wipes out any cost saving over a kit or conventional wing built from scratch, but the time matters more to me.

[Ty Marcucci]

A lot of my building is from plans and it is far less expensive than some kits.  Also my plans built models are lighter than most kit builds. Several club members have remarked on how light some of my models were. I was into free flight for several years before I got back into CL, thus I had a LOT of 4 to 6 lb balsa.. Following is off subject, but related, sort of: I have purchased several used models that were clunkers and loved the challenge of rebuilding them lighter.. Didn't make it on two, but they were lighter, just too heavy  no matter what I did.

[Mark Mc]

I have often wondered myself.
I’m not a fan of cutting and sanding a stack of ribs.
If I ever buy another vinyl cutter I’m getting one that can cut balsa. 😉

Been doing that for about three years.  I love cutting parts on my Cricut Maker.  I also have a few kits that I cut but never built because it's just so easy to download a plan from Outerzone and draw it up in Inkscape.  I probably have about 25 plans in .svg format that I drew up for the Maker that are just sitting in a folder.  But the parts are so much better than hand cutting.  Even better than laser cutting, IMO.  I'm temporarily out of modeling for a while.  But I was in Portland last week for my son's wedding, and seeing the three Skyray 35's that I built and left up there when we moved down makes me antsy to cut ribs for three more and build them.

[Dennis Toth]

Mark, googling the Cricut Maker it seems like a reasonable cost to cut up to 3/32" balsa (at least in the new Cricut Maker 4 model). Besides ribs have you been able to cut fuse sides and formers?

Best,  DennisT

[Bill Schluckbier]

I will second the idea of getting a rib kit along with drawings and going from there.  It is still not all that cheap but at least it takes care of the tedium of having to cut ribs.  I built a 40 sized Legacy that way.  I have a kit for a Mo-Best and my impression is that its wing is probably the closest to a modern airfoil when compared to other Brodak offerings.  Nice blunt leading edge.  If I were to build a model around a wing that would be my choice.  It is not a huge model but given our field restrictions its size if probably just about right.

[Doug Moisuk]

With scratch building you have more control over weight. Weight is everything. 

[Doug Moisuk]

Scratch built gives you more control over weight. Weight is everything.

[Dennis Toth]

With the cost of balsa and the quality we have to be creative. One approach is to use the heavier wood available but use a thinner section (this is not new Bob Hunt and others have been doing this for years). The heavier and harder wood is stronger than soft light stock. Now some parts need to be a certain thickness so we are stuck there, but for fuse sides instead of 1/8" use 3/32" for sheeting 1/32" will do with a few extra supports or on foam cores.

The other area to save weight is in the finish. MonoKote the wings and tail surfaces then paint at least the nose for glow ships.

Best,   DennisT

[Motorman]

I have to believe it's cheaper to scratch build. How much, I don't know but, I do enjoy it more.

  I have a kit for a Mo-Best and my impression is that its wing is probably the closest to a modern airfoil when compared to other Brodak offerings. 

The Tanager wing from Brodak is pretty good too.

MM

[Tim Wescott]

Get a kit.

Take out all the wood that's too heavy.

Take out all the wood that you're going to re-engineer.

Note that there's a canopy and some hardware left.

Put it all back in the box, give it to someone in need, and build from scratch.

[Paul Taylor]

Been doing that for about three years.  I love cutting parts on my Cricut Maker.  I also have a few kits that I cut but never built because it's just so easy to download a plan from Outerzone and draw it up in Inkscape.  I probably have about 25 plans in .svg format that I drew up for the Maker that are just sitting in a folder.  But the parts are so much better than hand cutting.  Even better than laser cutting, IMO.  I'm temporarily out of modeling for a while.  But I was in Portland last week for my son's wedding, and seeing the three Skyray 35's that I built and left up there when we moved down makes me antsy to cut ribs for three more and build them.

Hey Mark,
If you wouldn’t mine sharing you can upload your cut files for ribs in the vinyl cutters section. Please

[Mike Griffin]

Although we got a little thread drift in relation to what I asked, that is ok.

Specifically, what i was trying to find out was if anyone ever had a kit (any design) and let's say the kit cost today $275.00.  Then built that very same model from plans and a pile of balsa and done a cost comparison of which model was cheaper to build.  I dont care about the length of time or anything other than the cost in dollars.  Can you build that kit from scratch for less that $275 and if so, how much cheaper.

I am assuming no one has ever done this so I guess I will pick out some kit and log the price.  Then I will buy the plans and balsa to build that same model.  Again, all I care about is the cost of materials to build the airframe.  No hardware or engine.

I thought it may be fun to do and I am bored since I quit producing kits, building and flying.

Thank you all for your input.

Mike

[Jeremy Chinn]

I can scratch build cheaper than building a kit. Better quality wood as well. Especially with older kits - I’ve mainly ended up using them as templates and plans.

Recently bought a Ringmaster kit, and the fuselage was too warped to use. Rest of the stock was too heavy as well.

My biggest building issue is finishing materials. I’m a monokote guy. I hate dope and silkspan and any other type of similar finishing material. Monokote has become somewhat like unicorn hair to purchase.

[fred cesquim]

Although we got a little thread drift in relation to what I asked, that is ok.

Specifically, what i was trying to find out was if anyone ever had a kit (any design) and let's say the kit cost today $275.00.  Then built that very same model from plans and a pile of balsa and done a cost comparison of which model was cheaper to build.  I dont care about the length of time or anything other than the cost in dollars.  Can you build that kit from scratch for less that $275 and if so, how much cheaper.

I am assuming no one has ever done this so I guess I will pick out some kit and log the price.  Then I will buy the plans and balsa to build that same model.  Again, all I care about is the cost of materials to build the airframe.  No hardware or engine.

I thought it may be fun to do and I am bored since I quit producing kits, building and flying.

Thank you all for your input.

Mike

around 25/35% cheaper you have to consider balsa waste on kits, packagin and seller economic cost ( credicard taxes, rent, taxes) and margin.