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Author Topic: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)  (Read 2226 times)

Offline Ruslan Kurenkov

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K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« on: April 05, 2019, 03:26:02 PM »
Hello, friends !
I have good news for owners of K77 engines.
The Stalker company is now completing the K77 with a completely new rear engine cover. This part of the engine crankcase is now anodized in a completely different way.
The strength of the anode layer is several times higher than it was before.
This is due to the fact that if the K77 engine is not properly operated, the following defects may occur, namely;
- use of fuel with a very large percentage of nitromethane (more than 5 percent).
- the use of a very light propeller (small diameter, or small step), which leads to a strong increase in engine speed and with poor (incorrect) blowing of air to the engine forward bias. All this together leads to the sliding of the connecting rod from the crankshaft of the engine and rubbing it against the back cover of the engine crankcase. With proper operation of the K77 engine, such problems do not occur.
Airflow in your aircraft should be designed to reduce cooling from the front and maximally focus on cooling the engine from behind in the exhaust. When cooled, the engine will heat up equally from the front and from the rear. That will support its long-term operation without and without damage.
The new, reinforced with a very strong anode, rear cover of the engine crankcase will be supplied to all owners of K77 engines absolutely free. For the possibility of delivery and replacement of the back cover of the K77, please contact me convenient for you, here on the forum in this thread, or send me a personal message or email to me with your home address where I can send you a new part for your K77 engine .
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov / kurenkov.f2b@gmail.com /
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 02:04:00 PM by Ruslan Kurenkov »

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2019, 08:29:57 PM »
Quote
Airflow in your aircraft should be designed to reduce cooling from the front and maximally focus on cooling the engine from behind in the exhaust

Have you any drawings , pictures , photos of such wonderous contrivances ? .  H^^

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2019, 07:29:30 PM »
This is due to the fact that if the K77 engine is not properly operated, the following defects may occur, namely;
- use of fuel with a very large percentage of nitromethane (more than 5 percent).
- the use of a very light propeller (small diameter, or small step), which leads to a strong increase in engine speed and with poor (incorrect) blowing of air to the engine forward bias. All this together leads to the sliding of the connecting rod from the crankshaft of the engine and rubbing it against the back cover of the engine crankcase. With proper operation of the K77 engine, such problems do not occur.

  So, Ruslan - people have been using the K77 as a substitute for the PA75 or RO-Jett 76. This means running maybe 9500-10500 RPM with a 13-4 3-blade or so.

    What is it intended to do, if not that?  People have been asking me what they need to do, and for the most part, I tell them that I don't know. Good for you to supply a more durable backplate. But I am very surprised that running on conventional fuel would damage it, and certainly, people would not expect that.

     Brett

Offline Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2019, 01:41:09 PM »
  So, Ruslan - people have been using the K77 as a substitute for the PA75 or RO-Jett 76. This means running maybe 9500-10500 RPM with a 13-4 3-blade or so.

    What is it intended to do, if not that?  People have been asking me what they need to do, and for the most part, I tell them that I don't know. Good for you to supply a more durable backplate. But I am very surprised that running on conventional fuel would damage it, and certainly, people would not expect that.

     Brett
Hello Brett!
Thank you for message.
I really want to publish our recommendations for the operation of the K77 engine which we produce and bear full responsibility for its long-term work.
For us, as for the manufacturer of Shtunt engines, contractual and uninterrupted operation is at least 2000 flights before replacing the piston and cylinder, subject to our recommendations. (Replacing bearings every 500 flights) All our engines are designed from Stalker 40 to Stalker 81.
The K77 engine is also designed for uninterrupted operation of up to 2,000 flights. We use for production of the K77 piston the most modern and most expensive alloy today. This alloy contains 27 percent silicon. We get this rafting from Switzerland from our friend Lauri. To anodize the back cover of the engine, we use the strongest anode for today. Previously, we had no need to use the strongest anode. But recently we received several complaints from our customers. After finding out the reasons for the engine breakdown, I posted my post here on the forum. The main reason for the connecting rod to creep into the rear wall of the engine and the destruction of the anode layer is a strong tilt of the engine cylinder forward to the propeller due to the very high engine overheating at the back and the complete lack of cooling from the exhaust side. The main reason for the strongest overheating of the K77 was the use of fuel with a huge content of NITROMETHANE and very large engine revolutions in the air. The exact amount of nitromethane and engine speed unfortunately could not be found out.
Engine K77 was originally designed to work for at least 2000 flights. This is only possible without nitromethane in the fuel. K77 - EXCELLENTLY works without nitromethane. We strongly recommend using fuel without nitromethane or 5% ready fuel for those who do not want to independently engage in the purchase of methyl alcohol and independently stir the fuel as the Pilots of the F2A models and pilots of the free-flying F1C models do so all their lives. Nitromethane greatly increases the compression ratio in the engine and moves the ignition advance angle very far forward. Ignition does not occur - fuel EXPLOSES and much earlier than necessary. The engine starts to detonate strongly and vibration develops which leads to improper burning of a very large amount of fuel with a significantly higher amount of thermal energy. With the release of a large amount of oxygen from nitromethane, large quantities of nitrous acid are produced at the same time, which gradually destroys the engine piston.
Resource K77 is greatly reduced from 2000 to a maximum of 500 flights. Sometimes there are several flights (unfortunately).
For K77, we strongly recommend the use of working turns on the ground -
8800-9400 rpm.
For a 3-blade propeller 12.2 x 4.75-5.25in.
For a 4-bladed propeller 11.5x 5.25-5.75in
For a 2-blade propeller 13.4 x 6.0-6.3 - 8600 rpm
For a 2-blade propeller 13.0 x 6.0-6.6 - 9200 rpm
Regards
Ruslan Kurenkov

Offline big ron

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2019, 02:38:52 PM »
Kaz Minato's comment
This new engine runs like PA75
It needs break-in before fly but long time bench run is not good.
I think 3 tanks running on ground is OK before fly.
But please fly richer (open) N/V at the first flight.
I use 10 to 15% nitro 20 to 22% all synthetic oil fuel
I use 230cc(8.1oz) tank for pipe and 180cc(6.4oz) tank for rear muffler.
I use Enya#3 plug for most of time

You can use the same propeller and fuel as for PA75.
Tuned pipe 12.2 x 4.5 to 5.2 3B 8800 to 9500pm
So far pipe length (plug to #1 baffle) is 455 to 460mm in my case
Rear muffler 12.0 x 5.2 to 6.0 3B 8700 to 9300rpm
Prop for rear muffler should be 0.5inch smaller than the prop for pipe.
You can determine the prop is too big for the engine if rpm increase in air.
Pipe create more power than the rear muffler.
When you use the rear muffler, I recommend "No baffle" muffler.
(Rear muffler 5670yen)
And It is highly recommended to use muffler pressure.
It really help one speed running.


So can we expect to not get 2000 runs when running like this? Just curious I have 2 of these.
John Blanchard
Brusly, Louisiana
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Offline Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2019, 03:15:09 PM »

So can we expect to not get 2000 runs when running like this? Just curious I have 2 of these.
Hello Ron!
I know about these recommendations from Kaz Minato.
K77 is just a copy of PA75.
But this is not PA75. Internal parts of these engines are not interchangeable, made of different materials and have different sizes. Only fit sizes.
Kaz is the only seller of these excellent engines and he is responsible for his recommendations himself. We cannot influence his attitude towards NITROMETHANE.
For example, I still do not understand - why for PA75 nitromethane.
I understand why nitromethane was needed 30 years ago for OS MAX 40VF.
I am very sorry but when using such a large amount of nitromethane your engines will not work and more than 500 flights. For the K77 to work with nitromethane, it is necessary to greatly increase the combustion chamber by installing 2 additional gaskets under the cylinder head of the engine and using a very, very cold glow plug. This is necessary to install a later moment of ignition of the fuel mixture with nitromethane.
Regards.Ruslan

Offline Walter Hicks

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2019, 05:24:30 PM »
I use 15 % Nitromethane all synthetic ( Byrons Heli fuel 21% oil by volume.)in mine buy two extra head gasket. Never had a problem I do not run them at 10,000 as I use a rear muffler more like 8,700 with Eather 3 blade 12.5x 4.75 or Rev UP 13X5 which is really 4.5 pitch. I use the 15% to keep it in the 4 cycle and it is very easy to needle. Was this engine really designed for no nitro. I thought Kaz Minato was the one who gave Oleg the design specs?
If this is a P A 75 replacement shouldnt we be able to operate it on more Nitro than 5%? I think there may be a bit of confusion in the translation here.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 06:29:38 PM by Walter Hicks »

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2019, 10:31:31 PM »
Hello Ron!
I know about these recommendations from Kaz Minato.
K77 is just a copy of PA75.
But this is not PA75. Internal parts of these engines are not interchangeable, made of different materials and have different sizes. Only fit sizes.
Kaz is the only seller of these excellent engines and he is responsible for his recommendations himself. We cannot influence his attitude towards NITROMETHANE.
For example, I still do not understand - why for PA75 nitromethane.
I understand why nitromethane was needed 30 years ago for OS MAX 40VF.
I am very sorry but when using such a large amount of nitromethane your engines will not work and more than 500 flights. For the K77 to work with nitromethane, it is necessary to greatly increase the combustion chamber by installing 2 additional gaskets under the cylinder head of the engine and using a very, very cold glow plug. This is necessary to install a later moment of ignition of the fuel mixture with nitromethane.

   Ruslan  - not to dispute anything you are saying, but you probably need to be aware of the fact that "no-nitro" fuel is almost never available, and even 5% is not that easy to find, without special-ordering it. 15 or 25% is the normal inexpensive fuel found at hobby shops.

    In fact, the 40/46VF didn't need that much nitro, and most people ran 5 or 10%. It needs (for our purposes) less nitro than a PA, in general.

    The PA75 (as used by David Fitzgerald) uses a very mild 10% fuel, even in hot weather. It's that way to make sure it runs in a very deep 4-stroke, all the time, at about 10200 RPM in the air (maybe 9300 on the ground) with a 13-4 3-blade prop. It also uses the *hottest* available plugs. I know that it has no serious operational issue running on 20% fuel nearly indefinitely, Of course it will run on 5% (I don't know about FAI fuel, I assume it will run OK) but with more critical handling required, touchy on the needle. It's still plenty strong enough.

   It is set up that way to be competitive, which requires a tuned pipe, revs around 10500 in the air, and 3 3/4 - 4" of pitch. The 13-4 3-blade is nowhere near as much prop as it *could* swing (it works fine on my RO-Jett 61 with minor changes), but because the engine is so powerful, it's outstanding for purposes of propulsion but will still permit tight cornering.

   Most of us would expect a 77 running a tuned pipe in this low-load condition would just be loafing along well within its capabilities, not self-destructing, just because you ran conventional fuel that we could consider very mild. I have seen/heard many of them running with no obvious detonation or sound of strain on 10 and 15% nitro, so it is extremely surprising to hear that will damage it.

    Brett

Offline Lauri Malila

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2019, 11:49:34 PM »
Hi Ruslan,

Hard anodizing the backplate certainly works, at least for a while, but that is not fixing the real problem. You should find out why the conrod wants to move backwards and make corrections in engine geometry.
-Is crankshaft flexing too much?
-How much is cylinder rake (angle compared to shaft)?
You can make small tricks afterwards, like grind a slight conicality to crankpin and play with cooling, but there seems to be bigger issues that should be solved.
I have learned that eliminating all unwanted sources of friction heat is one of the most crucial things if you want to increase the stability and life of an engine.
Besides, a (too) high rpm rarely causes catastrophic failures in healthy engines. L

Offline Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2019, 01:58:28 PM »
Have you any drawings , pictures , photos of such wonderous contrivances ? .  H^^
Hello Mat!
We do not possess any inventions.
Everything was invented 50 years ago. Look carefully at the pictures of piston-engined airplanes of World War 2. There you will see a lot of interesting air intakes and diffusers. It is very individual for each individual aircraft, and for each individual form of the fuselage. You need to reduce the cross-section of the air window in front of the engine and increase the air purge immediately behind the engine near the exhaust manifold. This is your task as a model airplane. You have to come up with it and do it yourself. This is the whole point of our favorite sport.
Regards. Ruslan.
   Ruslan  - not to dispute anything you are saying, but you probably need to be aware of the fact that "no-nitro" fuel is almost never available, and even 5% is not that easy to find, without special-ordering it. 15 or 25% is the normal inexpensive fuel found at hobby shops.

    In fact, the 40/46VF didn't need that much nitro, and most people ran 5 or 10%. It needs (for our purposes) less nitro than a PA, in general.

    The PA75 (as used by David Fitzgerald) uses a very mild 10% fuel, even in hot weather. It's that way to make sure it runs in a very deep 4-stroke, all the time, at about 10200 RPM in the air (maybe 9300 on the ground) with a 13-4 3-blade prop. It also uses the *hottest* available plugs. I know that it has no serious operational issue running on 20% fuel nearly indefinitely, Of course it will run on 5% (I don't know about FAI fuel, I assume it will run OK) but with more critical handling required, touchy on the needle. It's still plenty strong enough.

   It is set up that way to be competitive, which requires a tuned pipe, revs around 10500 in the air, and 3 3/4 - 4" of pitch. The 13-4 3-blade is nowhere near as much prop as it *could* swing (it works fine on my RO-Jett 61 with minor changes), but because the engine is so powerful, it's outstanding for purposes of propulsion but will still permit tight cornering.

   Most of us would expect a 77 running a tuned pipe in this low-load condition would just be loafing along well within its capabilities, not self-destructing, just because you ran conventional fuel that we could consider very mild. I have seen/heard many of them running with no obvious detonation or sound of strain on 10 and 15% nitro, so it is extremely surprising to hear that will damage it.

    Brett
Hello Brett!
Thank you for the very detailed description regarding the nitromethane issue. To be honest, I always find myself thinking that we are talking about completely different systems for assessing what we all call "proper engine operation."
For example, we have the normal operation of the engine Stalker 76 in mode
                          4            - horizon
                      in 4+          mode - when flying up
             in mode 4 -          - when flying down.
This means that the engine slightly adds up (but this is not mode 2), and when flying down, it slightly turns off relative to the flight horizon. ............. Now the most important thing: To completely destroy this flight mode of the engine and fly all the time in 4 + mode (where each subsequent dead loop is performed faster than the previous one), without dropping turns during flight down (without braking) - we need to add only 3 percent or more of nitromethane to the fuel. Stalker engines can work WELL without nitromethane.
If someone either works with Stalker or K77 for some reason, this does not mean that the engine works EXCELLENT.
Just for you it is acceptable.
If you like it so much, then please fly and enjoy your every flight.
I just expressed earlier my point of view and the point of view of all the test pilots of the Stalker company and the point of view of Oleg Korotchayev, the founder of the company and the manufacturer of the K77.
This is all that is written above - OUR COMMON OPINION.
And this opinion will not change. We have done all this long ago and tested hundreds and thousands of times.
Maybe we have a different quality nitromethane, or methanol?
Maybe we really just misunderstand each other because of the language barrier.
Regards.Ruslan

Hi Ruslan,

Hard anodizing the backplate certainly works, at least for a while, but that is not fixing the real problem. You should find out why the conrod wants to move backwards and make corrections in engine geometry.
-Is crankshaft flexing too much?
-How much is cylinder rake (angle compared to shaft)?
You can make small tricks afterwards, like grind a slight conicality to crankpin and play with cooling, but there seems to be bigger issues that should be solved.
I have learned that eliminating all unwanted sources of friction heat is one of the most crucial things if you want to increase the stability and life of an engine.
Besides, a (too) high rpm rarely causes catastrophic failures in healthy engines. L
Hello Lauri!
Thank you for your correct advice.
We three years ago tried all the options that you wrote. We optimized all the parameters and started to produce the K77 series only after numerous tests.
Everything worked fine and now everything works fine.
There are several failures that occurred through no fault of ours.
Two K77 were very overheated.
We simply call upon the owners of the K77 to be more careful with complex aircraft models. And this:
Monitor engine temperature after landing.
Use only recommended propellers and do not abuse nitromethane. If you do not do this - then the resource of your engine can significantly shorten.
If the pilots do not want to adhere to our recommendations, then follow the recommendations of top pilots who are trusted by many athletes.
Do not tune the K77 yourself if you do not know how to do it correctly.
Regards.Ruslan.

Offline Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2019, 02:22:06 PM »
Hello, friends !
Today the first batch of rear covers of the K77 engine crankcase was sent to our customers.
A total of 16 parts were sent for 9 pilots of pilots that responded to my replacement request.
The rear engine covers were sent to such places;
1.Oregon 97502 USA / Code package: RI610418265UA                  1 backplate
2.Indianapolis 46220 USA / Code package: RI610418257UA           2 backplate
3.Winamac, IN. 46996 USA / Code package: RI610418243UA         3 backplate
4. Tucson, Arizona, USA / Code package: RI610418230UA              1 backplate
5. United Kingdom ,Penshaw / Code package: RI610418226UA        1 backplate
6. Oregon City, Or. 97045 USA / Code package: RI610418212UA     2 backplate
7. Brusly, La. 70719 USA / Code package: RI610418291UA             2 backplate
8. Kettering , Ohio 45409 USA / Code package: RI610418274UA      2 backplate
9. Italy, Milano, 20010 / Code package: RI610418288UA                 2 backplate

If someone from the K77 owners has not yet contacted me, then please send me an email with a detailed description of the delivery address of the new K77 back cover for timely replacement.
Once again I want to inform athletes and their coaches that for the successful and long operation of the K77 engine, try to fulfill the following basic condition during training.
Install your propeller of such a diameter and pitch so that the K77 engine speed on the ground, before take-off, does not exceed 9800 rpm.
Regards
Ruslan

Offline Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 09:35:36 AM »
Hello, friends ! 
Yesterday we sent a new back cover to the crankcase of the K77 engine to distant Australia.  Track number: RG610806906UA
We are waiting for you letters with addresses to send and replace. 
We wish you all the best.  Production company Stalker.

Offline Chuck_Smith

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2019, 05:56:42 AM »
Interesting stuff here. As some of you know, I'd been having fuel consumption problems with the K77. Dropping  from 10% to 5%, the engine changed character, is smoother and just seems "happier" and I can live on just over 8 oz with the pipe. Less scary on the "spinner flick" too. I think I'll mix a batch of no nitro and see what happens. I wonder if running with the pipe/tunnel is assisting with the cooling too?
 

Chuck
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Offline Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2019, 09:07:01 AM »
Interesting stuff here. As some of you know, I'd been having fuel consumption problems with the K77. Dropping  from 10% to 5%, the engine changed character, is smoother and just seems "happier" and I can live on just over 8 oz with the pipe. Less scary on the "spinner flick" too. I think I'll mix a batch of no nitro and see what happens. I wonder if running with the pipe/tunnel is assisting with the cooling too?
 

Chuck
Hello Chuck_Smith
I also think that a lot of interesting things are here. On numerous tests that we carried out with the K77 engine over the past 3 years, it was found that the engine works perfectly on fuel only without nitromethane. When nitromethane is used, the compression ratio of the fuel-air mixture greatly increases and does not correspond to the volume of the combustion chamber, as a result of which the mixture ignites earlier than the piston reaches the extreme upper position. Ignition and - detonation occurs. The temperature of combustion of fuel with nitromethane is higher, which, like detonation, causes the engine to operate at an elevated temperature, which leads to an uneven expansion of the aluminum alloy piston and brass sleeve. These materials are very durable, but the thermal expansion coefficients are not the same. All of the above actions may sooner or later lead to undesirable negative consequences with the work of your K77.
On the PA-75 engine, the piston and liner are made of aluminum alloys with the same coefficients of thermal expansion. The volume of the combustion chamber and the compression ratio on the PA-75 are initially set to use fuel with nitromethane. All these factors make it possible to use PA-75 with nitromethane at a speed of 10,500 and higher without any problems.
Our friend Donald from America who has two K77 and some more engines Stalker wrote me the following letter yesterday: "Hello Ruslan,
I mixed my fuel and ran my.46 se motor and it ran perfectly! And the cost of my own fuel was almost half the price. Your help is much appreciated. The methanol can be purchased at Jackson Solvents which is a VP Racing fuel distributor, and there home office is in San Antonio TX. Their web site is vpracingfuels.com. The oil is Techniplate from Klotz oil and there home office is in Fort Wayne IN. Their web site is klotzlube.com.
As always thank you.
Best Regards Don    "

Offline Chuck_Smith

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2019, 04:55:34 AM »
Thanks Ruslan,

Sounds like I should treat this motor similar to the ABC motors we used in pylon racing, only about 30,000 RPM less.  :)

And thanks again for the great customer service and the way you stand behind your motors. Craftsmanship and integrity still mean a lot to some people. Much appreciated.

Chuck
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Offline Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: K77 Stunt Engine (Backplate)
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2019, 07:58:35 AM »
Hello Chuck
Thanks for the kind words !
To any engine must be treated with love.
Yesterday we sent two more rear covers for the K77.
Track Number - RI610422795UA, Victor NY 14564, USA
Track Number - RI610422821UA, Indiana 46112, USA
and have already received the first delivery reviews
"Hi Ruslan,
I got the back plates today. Thank you, they are quite nice. I noticed that they are heavier too, that's great. It is clear that there is a need to make sure that it is clear. I switched to 5% nitro as I mentioned before and it runs smooth and strong.
Thanks again for the wonderful service,
T ... "
Regards.Ruslan


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