Just wondering...

[Mike Keville]

Is it just me, or is the Academy of Multirotors & ARFs becoming overly involved with the FAA regarding RC "models" (which aren't really "models" anymore)?

We pay dues to an organization which, lately, seems to be more involved with litigation and government red tape...all of which seems to center on RC, quadcopters, FPV and other activities far outside our scope of interest.

Question is: how many of us wish to continue force-feeding money into an organization which seems to be becoming more political every day?

Can't speak for others, but this could be my final year...since 1951.

[Douglas Ames]

Good points.
Quadcopters represent no known replicas of full scale drones. Add Go Pro video equip or otherwise and your wandering into privacy/ tresspassing issues.
Do we want R/C models of cruise missles or armed drones zinging about in todays volatile political climate?
Can you imagine the fallout of some kid overflying a major political figure's outdoor speech?
The AMA needs to stick to representing models and modelers.
Small drones have commercial applications and should be regulated like any other aircraft.
It's the dividing line between the two that needs to be drawn. Building and flying R/C giant scale bombers with 20 ft wingspans doesn't help the cause.

[pat king]

Follow the money. Some of the stuff advertised in Model Aviation this month has nothing to do with hobby R/C. $8,000.00+ multirotor vehicles advertising FPV goggles and autonimous flight are not model aircraft. The pilots of these vehicles should be licensed and regulated.

Pat

[Randy Powell]

Which once again suggests a separate organization be developed.

[Randy Cuberly]

Which once again suggests a separate organization be developed.

Yeah, Great Idea!  Anybody got a million dollars to get it started?

Insurance and liability is a real problem in today's litigeous environment.  Even for Control Line!

Randy Cuberly

[Scott Richlen]

Frankly, I'd like the FAA to regulate all FPV and any RC that could carry a payload of more than, say, 5 pounds.  In fact, I wouldn't have a problem with an FAA outright ban on non-commercial use of FPV and payload carrying capable RC, so its use is fully registered and regulated.

This very much goes against my strong feelings that the government is way too involved in our lives.  However, this case is the perfect example and justification for government regulation.

Maybe that would get the AMA back to what they should be doing, which is educating, promoting, and organizing the hobby of model airplane building and flying.

Anyone familiar with the Flying Aces Club?  They are associated with AMA for the insurance, otherwise they provide their own rules and organize their own activities.  In some ways, they are ahead of us on what should be our trajectory for the future.

Scott 

[WLGeorge]

A five pound rule?  There goes the only RC plane I own!!  There are a couple thousand Telemasters buzzing around that that kind of rule would ground.  A more inoffensive  model has never been built!!  I prefer the idea of leave my stuff alone and I will not bother yours.  If you are going to use your quad/heli/aircraft to make money then it is no longer a hobby.  It's a business.  Tax it. Regulate it like any other.

[John Rist]

The problem is that the FAA will likely stop all powered model activity.  They don't have a clue of the difference between a RC model and a control line model.  This is where the AMA needs to get involved.  A voice in the governments ear about the difference between a hobby activity and a commercial venture.  AMA membership has numbers.  Uncle Sam looks at numbers.  2.4 GHZ radios used in U-control scale and carrier was made possible by the efforts of the AMA.  They are doing a tough job in a time of declining membership.

[Randy Powell]

Well, as I understand it, if I have a accident with my CL plane, my homeowners insurance is tagged first, then maybe second is AMA. I'm not sure how hard it would be to start a separate governing body. But I hope that the AMA can pull it's head out of it's collective rears and realize that we still exist.

[RC Storick]

Well, as I understand it, if I have a accident with my CL plane, my homeowners insurance is tagged first, then maybe second is AMA. I'm not sure how hard it would be to start a separate governing body. But I hope that the AMA can pull it's head out of it's collective rears and realize that we still exist.

I would imagine the EAA could be talked into it.

[wwwarbird]

I would imagine the EAA could be talked into it.

 Doubtful.

[Randy Cuberly]

Well, as I understand it, if I have a accident with my CL plane, my homeowners insurance is tagged first, then maybe second is AMA. I'm not sure how hard it would be to start a separate governing body. But I hope that the AMA can pull it's head out of it's collective rears and realize that we still exist.

Randy,
Yes you're right about the member flight liability Insurance, but that wasn't what I was reffering to.
My concern for litigation is that which could be brought against the organization in general and it's officers for any mishaps against members or the general public.

Randy Cuberly

[Randy Cuberly]

Incidentally I would mention here that CL airplanes are not even covered by any of thes FAA regulations because legally they are not considered "Aircraft" but tethered Kites!

So let's just tell them we're going to go fly our kites and leave us alone!

 

[Mike Keville]

...My concern for litigation is that which could be brought against the organization in general and it's officers for any mishaps against members or the general public.
Randy Cuberly

==========================================================
One more reason for bailing-out . . .

[Chuck Feldman]

Hello Mike,

Like you I am not going to renew AMA. There should be a new organization for CL.

Wishing you well.

Chuck Feldman

[Tom Niebuhr]

This is part of what I said in the loss of FM thread:

"AMA forced membership for insurance and Model Aviation helped close the doors of Flying Models and American Modeler.

Model Aviation, several years ago, said that they were going to concentrate on the basics, and the next issue featured $10,000 jets. As Uncle Mikey has said, it is now nothing but Arfs.

The "Hobby Industry" greed has not helped. The quad copters, etc. are pushed for the quick buck and people are not told that they might require insurance."

AMA is suddenly political due to the problem that they helped to create. They have glorified jets and huge airplanes that are almost as big as a full size Pitts Special (17ft).  Every one flying RC knows about the word GLITCH. To me that is an unguided missile. Like so many, I am sick of seeing pictures of someone holding a transmitter that supposedly is used to fly their very expensive toy.  The insurance required to compete is the only reason to renew AMA. They have long rejected us, while they no longer have any modeling skills.

[Randy Powell]

Tom,

Yea, that's the only reason I renew. You have to have an AMA license to compete at a contest.  Perhaps if they had some competition, they would improve. Or if we could create a modelers association to oppose what has become an ARF and Multi-rotor association. But, probably not. As Randy C notes, it would take a lot of money. Unless a sponsor was found (and I can't imagine who that would be), it's not likely to happen.

Interesting world we've created.

[George]

Tom,
Yea, that's the only reason I renew. You have to have an AMA license to compete at a contest.  Perhaps if they had some competition, they would improve. Or if we could create a modelers association to oppose what has become an ARF and Multi-rotor association. But, probably not. As Randy C notes, it would take a lot of money. Unless a sponsor was found (and I can't imagine who that would be), it's not likely to happen.

 

I understand that the FAI recognizes only the AMA for international competition so for that, AMA is required.

Years ago in RC land a group tried to form a "Sport Flyers" organization. It ran into various obstacles and was unsuccessful.

Perhaps it would be better to try to upgrade the status of CL flying to AMA. For those who follow more than one discipline (like CL and RC) make sure you check-off CL at AMA renewal time. As far as within CL...united we stand.  

George

[FLOYD CARTER]

Our AMA friends, in the latest issue of MA, pleaded for members to write to to guvvies about docket FAA-2014-0396.

So, being a good member, I did just that.

The AMA isn't going to like what I wrote!

Floyd

[Joe Just]

Our AMA friends, in the latest issue of MA, pleaded for members to write to to guvvies about docket FAA-2014-0396.

So, being a good member, I did just that.

The AMA isn't going to like what I wrote!

Floyd

PLEASE SHARE WHAT YOU WROTE!!
Joe

[pat king]

Check out the following advertisements in the September issue of Model Aviation:
P84-The copter has 50 wp (way points?)  In their Training Services they offer Autonomous Flight Planning
P118- Fat Shark goggles (Appear to block all outside vision. "Fully autonomous GPS controlled systems with video downlinks"
Hobby aircraft do not make autonomously controlled flights, WEAPONS DO!!!!!!!!!!!
These people will sell anyone a "Launch and forget" low speed, invisible to radar  "Cruise Missile".
Pat

[Balsa Butcher]

Up until the late 1980s WAM (Western Associated Modelers) provided similar insurance to what is offered by the AMA. Many who competed in WAM contests were not AMA members. Doubt if it could be done today but have wondered if inquiries were made, could it be feasible...Lloyds of London maybe?

[Randy Powell]

When I renewed my AMA license this last time, you were only allowed to pick ONE discipline. So you can't choose CL and say, RC or Electric or whatever.

[Randy Cuberly]

Our AMA friends, in the latest issue of MA, pleaded for members to write to to guvvies about docket FAA-2014-0396.

So, being a good member, I did just that.

The AMA isn't going to like what I wrote!

Floyd

Floyd,
Apparently, like me you're a Baaaaddd...Boy! 

Randy Cuberly

[Randy Cuberly]

Up until the late 1980s WAM (Western Associated Modelers) provided similar insurance to what is offered by the AMA. Many who competed in WAM contests were not AMA members. Doubt if it could be done today but have wondered if inquiries were made, could it be feasible...Lloyds of London maybe?

Sure it could be done!  Like I said...Got a Million Dollars? 

[wwwarbird]

Tom,

Yea, that's the only reason I renew. You have to have an AMA license to compete at a contest.

 Kinda the same here, the only reasons I renew are because my C/L club requires it for membership, and also that many flying fields require it for use of the field. I do not consider myself a fan of the current "modern" version of the AMA.

 However, another hopeful justification in the back of my mind each year when I send my $$$ in is for the supposed work they do in protecting our right to play with our toys. I think we'd better be real careful what we wish for when using the word "regulation" in our little modeling world. I hate the quads and most of everything else the AMA currently promotes too, but if certain groups are somehow overly regulated or forced to go away it won't be good for any of us. When it comes to the politics of it all, as much as I don't agree with a lot of it, I figure we'd ALL better swallow some pride and get along no matter what type of model flying you prefer.  

[Mike Keville]

Right now, I stand by my original post (#1, above).  Should I choose to renew (unlikely), it will be solely to see the organization implode when (a) some moron dives his oversized, overweight "model" into a crowd, or (b) when some other moron's quadcopter "drone" hits a commercial airliner.

[Scott Richlen]

This is a very frustrating situation.  It would be nice if there were an alternate organization, but there isn't.    And right now PAMPA can't become that alternative, since any change to PAMPA essentially just means more work loaded on Bob Hunt's back.  And if I want to participate in contests, I have to just hold my nose and pay my membership.     If I don't, I am only punishing myself and my buddies.  So, Mike, I feel your pain (gee, somehow that phrase sounds familiar  ) and I can't blame you for being frustrated.  But consider your flying buddies and the people who expect to see you at contests (more on this, below).

I want to do something about it and I would like that "something" to be positive, rather than negative.  So, what are the things that could be done?  Here's what I'll do:
1)  I'll be sending in a picture of my latest stunt ship to MA for their "Focal Point" picture page.  Since submissions can be made on line, it will be easy for me to send in the picture and some description.
2) Again this year I'll be teaching a stick and tissue building class as an after-school activity at the local Junior High.  Frankly, if you are retired and not doing this kind of thing - well...
3) This will also be the second year that I will host building sessions for our NVCL Club Members on another group build.  6 of us are currently finishing last year's build, 13 of us are signed up for this next group build.  The arrow is pointed in the right direction!
4) I will continue to send in pictures to my AMA and my PAMPA District IV Reps for use in their columns.
5) I will continue to participate in local contests and go to Brodaks Fly-In.  This is not about winning hardware.  It's about this: when I go to contests expecting to see one of my "once-a-year" flying buddies from far off, and they don't attend, I miss them and feel badly.  So, knowing how I feel when someone doesn't show up, I'm not going to do that to them.  I'll show up!

I know that this won't change the world, but it will change my world.  And that is all I can really directly affect anyway.  But I am not going to let AMA's follies push me out of model airplanes if I can help it.  And I refuse to withdraw despite the frustration.

Scott

[Tom Niebuhr]

This morning's news is full of reports of the drone that "buzzed" the Panthers-Chiefs game in Charlotte.

These unlicensed, uninsured,  idiots are adding to the FAA concerns about RC aircraft. Talk radio is talking about the possibility of bombs, although the radio people have no idea of the size of the craft needed. But they do know that large RC airplanes have been around for along time.

Like I said before, AMA and the greed of the "hobby industry" have contributed to this.  I hope that they don't destroy CL because of guilt by association.

[Mike Lauerman]

'Guilt by association' is the key here. AMA insureds will be grouped together, in the event of an R/C mishap.

I was 'grounded' by city police officers who grilled me for 30 minutes flying my C/L plane, (Sterling F51 profile Mustang) who demanded I come up with the 'radio'. Showed them the lines and handle, but they wanted that radio!

I shudder to think...

[FLOYD CARTER]

Sounds like the police guys in Atwater aren't too swift.

F.C.

[Brett Buck]

Up until the late 1980s WAM (Western Associated Modelers) provided similar insurance to what is offered by the AMA.

    Well, hypothetically.

    Brett

[wwwarbird]

Sounds like the police guys in Atwater aren't too swift.

F.C.

 ...mirroring the general society, and with that the voter majority, which at some point will likely be our problem. 

[55chevr]

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/google-building-fleet-package-delivering-drones-25168677


This is the latest .... wonder if AMA has an opinion on small package delivery drones. 

[Chuck Feldman]

Isn't this the dumbest idea ever? Why? OK send me your address and I will have one of my RC machines deliver to you a surprise package. How about a bag full of poop?

[55chevr]

This is still in the fantasy phase but nothing would surprise me.  These companies have the resources to develop an atomic bomb if they wanted to.  Plus with political connections and lobbyists, they have the juice to silence the FAA.


Joe

[George]

...OK send me your address and I will have one of my RC machines deliver to you a surprise package. How about a bag full of poop?

 
Well, isn't that one definition of surprise...a fart with a lump in it?   

George