Judges

[Chuck Feldman]

  I offer these comments knowing that it may build a fury that will burn the house down.

Judges should be compensated by the host club for there actual expenses. Do not take this that when I judge a cantest that I am asking to be compensated. That is not the case at all.

Here is my idea for guidelines for Judges compensation.
A. Travel expanse's 100% whether drive or flown. Must be over 100 miles one way.
B. Daily living expense. $100.00  (100 mile rule)
C. Any other expense the judge may want to have the host club consider compensation. 

E. If a judge is also a Contestant he gets no compensation.

Now most judges will fall under E which doesn't inflate the contest costs. Other judges may travel away from home but it is not over 100 miles one way. Again this doesn't inflate the cost. Some judges will not want to be compensated and do the job gratis.
The effect of this would mean that most clubs would want to have local judges(club members) work as the judges. I think this is a good thing. This is just a thought and I hope it will be discussed on the Forum. Do not kill me or I will send Clint to beat you up. Better yet make that Wongo 

[EddyR]

You just put our contest out of business
Ed

[Aaron Little]

Great idea but I agree with Eddy, I don't know the MCLS meets would run

I do know that William Davis does this, he may have started it, or got it from another club member but if you judge at Huntersville they pay your entry fee (or don't charge you an entry fee) I don't remember the exact rules, it is probably only one event etc but its a nice gesture.

I actually learned a lot by judging, I can see where most mistakes are made consistently.

Anyway just my two cents.

(sufficiently fixed)

[Howard Rush]

I do know that William Davis does this, he may have started it, or go tit from another club member ...

There's an idea.

[Will Davis]

Just a small show of appreciation to our judges for their hard work and dedication to the event . We implemented our " No Entry fee for Judges " policy with our Friday Judges clinic  and it has helped get more volunteeres to help out .

Will

[Howard Rush]

We gave them cool Golden State Stunt Championships coffee mugs.  We have several left over, so you can do the same at your contest. 

[Clint Ormosen]

We gave them cool Golden State Stunt Championships coffee mugs.  We have several left over, so you can do the same at your contest. 

.......and since I don't really drink coffee, mine was turned into a soda pop mug.

[Randy Ryan]

There's an idea.

I caught that one Howard!

[Aaron Little]

There's an idea.

and errr fixed...

[Tim Wescott]

Why?

If I ever get good enough to judge this stuff (as opposed to being the One Crash of the Day) I'd do it if I were asked and were available -- getting a stipend wouldn't make a huge difference to whether I were willing to judge or not.

[EddyR]

Why would I want the club to pay me when I just collect from the winner.
Ed

[Will Davis]

Tim,

Judging has very little to do with your flying ability, It is more  important to know the rules and descriptions in the rulebook,  We have some of the most qualified judges in the US in our area  and some have never competed on a national level, They know the rules and can Judge with the best of them,

Being good enough to Judge will only be limited to you ability to judge, not ability to fly the perfect pattern.

Ask some of your local contest people to coach you in judging and if you decide to compete, you will be a better flyer .

Will

[jim ivey]

Should the judges be required to disclose BRIBES ? so they could be deducted from compensation?     ha ha ha

[Jerry Leuty]

I get what Chuck is saying and to some degree I do agree that judges should receive something for their willingness to sit in the hot sun, move about the circle as the contestant requires by a hand motion for their ability to compensate for the changing wind directions. To carry this a step further there should be in place a judging seminar to where a day or so of classes are offered in order to certify judges. I personally have judged a lot of stunt. I fly at the Intermediate level and have yet to win first place in the class. I have never been to the Nats, Brodaks, GSCB. I have been to VSC....not successful yet in an attempt but been there several times anyway. The deal is at our our DMAA contests in far east Dallas, Texas I am good enough to judge fairly the pilots that fly before me. I may not be able to fly it but I do know what I am looking at. Would I take money for my day of work? Nah. But then I only drive 95 miles one way to our contest. My wife brings food therefore because we are 'givers' we eat free if that is what you want to call it. We do not charge for the lunch meal but do ask for a donation for the field fund. Some donate some do not. That is on them. In the short of it I do believe that the  Nats judges should at least be compensated with travel money, motel costs, and an average per day meal allowance. If your club wants to compensate the judges then do so. I have gone to out of state contests and as soon as I arrived and introduced myself I am immediately asked if I can judge for them. Of course I will. Even though I came, spent time and money to fly. I believe in giving back to a sport that continues to give me a lot of pleasure. How about you? Are you a taker only or do you give back as well?
  Good to hear from you Chuck. I was just wondering today about you and how you are fairing down in central Fla.
Jerry

[Chuck Feldman]

  To all who have responded to this thought. Thank you for not tearing my head off. These thoughts of mine just came out of the blue and I am glad I set this thread up. I hope the comments continue. Our judges do work hard and some spend considerable funds to do it. No doubt they love what they are doing. I think the gift comment like from GSSC are very good ideas as is the entry fee like Huntersville does. Maybe some more information is forthcoming. Hey Ty, Back in the day I was a CD. I do know all that you spoke of. I did a contest in NJ and Florida and later some in Texas. It was fun and it was work. I am not a CD now because the AMA requires some more certification things etc. The group I fly with doesn't need a CD. I also would be embarrassed to have the number 650 on my planes. You would wonder who I was and expect to see some great flying etc. So I declined the number.

[Paul Smith]

Should the judges be required to disclose BRIBES ? so they could be deducted from compensation?     ha ha ha

Quite the contrary.  All brides should continue to be down low and under the table, as always.  With enough bridery, the contest management could not only do away with compensation, but require judges to kick up to buy the privilege of judging.

It is said that this system works well in certain police forces.

[jim ivey]

  thats great pual you really made lmao , that dont happen often for me on these site. Keep up the good humor. Afterall, laughter is good for the soul.  TY jim I.

[Will Davis]

Chuck,

Thank you for starting this thread, Some of your ideas may get people to thinking of alternative methods to get Judges  to help at Contest. We are very fortunate to have dedicated club members in our area that jump in and help at a minutes notice .

You being a past C/D have earned your right to come up with ideas , whether we agree or not ,

 Any contest director  has  " Walked the Walk "

Will

[Steve Helmick]

I'd rather have judges that want to do it, rather than do it for the big money involved...  Steve

[peabody]

I have always felt that ANY financial incentive is not good....even the free AMA membership for being a CD....

[Jo Ann Keville]

Years ago when I used to be the CD for the VSC we tried to take care of out judges. We provided them with a free banquet dinner and we bought them lunch on the days that they judged, and I always tried to have a large cooler at the tables and kept it full of cold water for the guys working the contest. I know it wasn't much but it let them know we cared and they were greatly appreciated. All our judges did so because they wanted to. I had one contestant one year that complained about the judging in an early VSC. I just looked at him and suggested that maybe if he didn't like the way the guys were judging than maybe he should volunteer to do so. Well the following year he did volunteer to judge and never complained again. And for the next few years this man judged about every other year. And a truly fine judge he was. But I agree with some earlier statements, You fly a few and you work a few. It is time to have fun and then time to give back to the hobby and there is no better way to give back than to work a contest and make it fun for others. All modelers should take turns doing the work Makes all contests so much more fun. Now I have no idea what goes on at the current VSC events as I don't run them any more. But that is what happened for about the first 15 years or so. And that is my 2cents for what ever it is worth. But I do know that VSC was a success from the first day of it inception. Have fun guys, but give back when ever you can. And do it because you want to. 
JoAnn Keville

[Chuck Feldman]

  Joann, Will, Thank you for what you have added to this thread. I hope the thread continues. Even Peabody stated his opinion. To all I say to you this; Chuck Feldman is not complaining about judging in anyway. I am not expecting nor seeking any reimbursement from any duties I perform. I do not know of any other judge who is either. This thread is just a discussion.

[Howard Rush]

This thread is just a discussion.

A good one, I think.  Thanks for starting it.

[Tim Wescott]

I had one contestant one year that complained about the judging in an early VSC. I just looked at him and suggested that maybe if he didn't like the way the guys were judging than maybe he should volunteer to do so. Well the following year he did volunteer to judge and never complained again. And for the next few years this man judged about every other year. And a truly fine judge he was.

Wow.  Lucky you -- both of you.

I figure that the "If you don't like it you can always do it" line will shut up complaints maybe 50% of the time*, and actually garner you a volunteer once out of every hundred times.

You're lucky you got someone who didn't just want to whine -- and he's lucky he reached for the brass ring when you held it out.

* It's why I try not to complain about volunteer work -- I'm both lazy and responsible.

[Ted Fancher]

Quite the contrary.  All brides should continue to be down low and under the table, as always.  With enough bridery, the contest management could not only do away with compensation, but require judges to kick up to buy the privilege of judging.

It is said that this system works well in certain police forces.

Really Paul!  Not All BriDes behave in such an appalling manner.  Some few of them still refrain from excessive consumption and remain above the table throughout the reception.

Ted Fancher

[Paul Smith]

I have always felt that ANY financial incentive is not good....even the free AMA membership for being a CD....

You have your wish, at least in part.

The current deal for CD'ing is a $29 discount against a $58 membership.

[FLOYD CARTER]

AMA used to give a year's free membership dues to a CD who actually ran a contest (with a sanction, and all).  Looks like they quit that.

I was CD for some R/C scale contests long ago, but I delegated almost all the work, and I only mailed the documents to AMA.  Pretty soft job!

Nothing for judges, though.

Floyd

[john e. holliday]

Same with being an event director at the NATS.  I used to volunteer to run, assist or judge events.  Even the small pitance they gave was a little help to instill a person to go to the NATS and help. 

[Les McDonald]

 Here's my take on this topic.
Find an event sponsor, sell some TV time and charge admission to hundreds of spectators. Until that happens (it won't) we just need to thank them for their time, dedication and financial outlay.
Most importantly, everyone needs to judge once in awhile especially if you're an active competitor, you can learn alot!

[Paul Smith]

AMA used to give a year's free membership dues to a CD who actually ran a contest (with a sanction, and all).  Looks like they quit that.

I was CD for some R/C scale contests long ago, but I delegated almost all the work, and I only mailed the documents to AMA.  Pretty soft job!

Nothing for judges, though.

Floyd

It was a good policy.  It encourgaged clubs & people to SANCTION contests, which helped bring in members. By my estimate, the income from the sanctions and additional members more that covered the earned memberships.

AMA coined the term earned membership in lieu of "free" which implied something for nothing.

[Joseph Patterson]

I don't believe judges should be singled out for compensation at local, regional, or Nats contests. You also have other people such as the CD'S, tabulators, pit bosses, runners, etc. who are working their buns off to see that the contest is conducted successfully. I believe the judge is one piece of the pie and the other contest workers are the rest of the pie. Furthermore, there is not enough money in local clubs to do something like this,even the AMA probably does not have extra funds to pay just the judges. If the AMA did have the money for judges, then they would also have to find more funds to pay all the other volunteers whose services are so valuable. We participate in contests because we enjoy it, because we love the hobby, the people, the flat out fun it brings. Do we end up with professional judges, professional flyers, professional CD'S, professional tabulators, professional pull testors.

I'm not trying to be ficetious, but real about this. It would be nice to compensate the people, but until the hobby/sport developes as much as "Monster Jam", Red Bull Racing, NASCAR, PBA, etc- which will never happen we keep on keeping on.

Doug
   

[Howard Rush]

We charged $10 per contestant less than we needed to break even at our last contest.  I felt bad about not providing more stuff to the volunteers, but to do so we'd have had to raise the entry fee, which would have discouraged some folks from entering. 

[Will Davis]

$ 10  per eevnt ,  A break even rate even for the big turnout we have  at Huntersville  NC Contest , just trying to keep it simple for the Registration table.

We could never afford to do enough for all of the volunteeres, Judges included

Will