Slowing it down?

[Terry Caron]

I'm a 68 y.o.retread with a BBTU Flite Streak.
After a few months and a couple dozen flights (not all successful) I can basically go in circles safely.
But release at the recommended 11.4K rpm is too much speed for my brain/reflexes.

What's the best way to slow lap times and still have the power for basic manuvers?

Terry

[RC Storick]

Less pitch or longer lines. Less RPM

[Tim Wescott]

Expanding on what Robert is saying:

What line length are you running?  I flew both my Fright Streak and my Skyray on 60' lines.  Granted, I was flying 4.5 second laps which means you keep on your toes, but I did OK with it.

What prop?  The true BBTU calls out an APC 9-4 prop.  If that's not what you're using -- change.

[Howard Rush]

I'm a 68 y.o.retread with a BBTU Flite Streak.
After a few months and a couple dozen flights (not all successful) I can basically go in circles safely.
But release at the recommended 11.4K rpm is too much speed for my brain/reflexes.

What's the best way to slow lap times and still have the power for basic manuvers?

Terry

Terry, I think that you are probably too old to fly stunt.  I'm 68 and couldn't even make 20th place in the last contest I entered.

[bob whitney]

what engine are u using   mine was great with an OS 20 without a MUFF  i had to go to an OS 25 with a MUFF   both on .015 x 60 ft lines

[Terry Caron]

Terry, I think that you are probably too old to fly stunt.  I'm 68 and couldn't even make 20th place in the last contest I entered.

Howard, contests are the last thing on my mind.  
I don't even want to fly real stunt - just do some loops, figure 8's, inverted and such (have the figure 9's down pretty well).  

I'm flying 60' lines/.20FP ABN/2030/Hayes/9x4 APC.
Only change is a 2-wheel wire LG.
I have 60' x .012, .015 & .018 lines.

[Tim Wescott]

Terry, you may just need a bigger plane.  A good light 40 sized stunter will do fine with 5 second laps or slower.

And Howard's funning you.  He never wins our local contests, but he usually gets within a couple of places of some guy named Paul Walker.

[Terry Caron]

Terry, you may just need a bigger plane.  A good light 40 sized stunter will do fine with 5 second laps or slower.

Unfortunately, I perfected my figure 9's with my Cardinal and a new plane isn't in the cards, so I'm limited to the Streak and it's stablemate, the RingStreakster.
So slower laps seem the best option.

And Howard's funning you.  He never wins our local contests, but he usually gets within a couple of places of some guy named Paul Walker.

I know, but he may be onto something - I may have the Katzenjammer's disease or sumpin'. 

Terry

[bob whitney]

a smaller venturi would slow it down and u can still run it up in it's power band

[Dennis Saydak]

And Howard's funning you.  He never wins our local contests, but he usually gets within a couple of places of some guy named Paul Walker.

Yeah I saw Howard fly so badly in Fargo two years ago that the judges took pity on him and awarded him first place. 

[Motorman]

Just keep flying it you'll get use to it. An fp20 is not that fast.

MM

[Phil Krankowski]

a smaller venturi would slow it down and u can still run it up in it's power band

Some cut up tights (pantyhose) rubber bended over the venturi would have similar effect and protect the engine from trash in those figure 9's.  Those braided rubber band bracelets that are popular are silicone and a good size band to use to hold the cloth on.  You can add layers till you like it too.

Phil

[Balsa Butcher]

More information is needed: What lap speed are you getting that you consider too fast? As far as lines go, .015x60' is what most around here use for similar setups.

[Terry Caron]

Pete, I think around 5 secs or a hair over, timing best I could when a bud was flying it.
I don't really know what I need, I'm just tired of destroying decent planes every week or two.
Hard on the budget too.
Another in our group suggested a slower plane after my last crash.

I could put the carb back on it - smaller venturi.

Terry

[Balsa Butcher]

Your prop/rpm set-up sounds about right. 5.0 -5.1 are good lap times for Flite-Streaks. Don't change your engine/RPM/prop set-up, BB has researched this to the Nth degree and those numbers work. there are planes that will stunt at a slower speed out there but first try using 61" lines. They will slow your spinning down by at least a tenth of a second while allowing the model to maintain the same speed.
Keep the muffler on, it is an intrinsic part of the BB setup. This may sound strange but if the high RPM of the motor is making you nervous, wear ear plugs. Slowing down the controls a bit may help also, either by moving the pushrod down a hole in the elevator horn or putting the lines closer together at the handle. Is the plane nose heavy? Often ARF Flite Streaks with this setup require some tail weight.

[Terry Caron]

Noise is no prob, and balance point is as close to recommended L.E. -1 5/8" (with 3/4 oz on stab) as my fingers can judge.
Weight is ~28.5 oz.
Slower controls are doable - I'm currently at center B.C. hole, 2nd in on the horn.
I have an EZ-Just, so nothing there.
Handle/fuselage CTC is 60' 3.75" actual; I can make extensions.

FWIW, the lap time was with the carb/remote NV, in it's first incarnation.
It didn't last long enough in it's 2nd to notice if the std. venturi/NVA made a difference. 

Terry

[Chris Wilson]

What's the best way to slow lap times and still have the power for basic manuvers?

Basic manoeuvres?

Like take off, land, level flight, wing over and loop?

On a profile model I would be adding significant out thrust with a washer under the front of the engine mount.
Cheap, quick and easy to do and revert, It won't be pretty but it will give you more confidence until you can bring it back to normal.

Good luck mate.

[Terry Caron]

Now that you mention it Chris, that's been done for my next attempts.
I think the lack of pull (good or ill) has been a bit unnerving for me.

And I'm ok with (if not great at) the first four - my stumbling block is that first proper loop.
 
Terry

[Tim Wescott]

Weight is ~28.5 oz.
Slower controls are doable - I'm currently at center B.C. hole, 2nd in on the horn.
I have an EZ-Just, so nothing there.

Slow the controls down as much as you can at the elevator, then order a Fancher-style handle from Brodaks or make one yourself.

And I'm ok with (if not great at) the first four - my stumbling block is that first proper loop.

The best way to survive a single loop -- assuming your engine isn't cutting out -- is to concentrate on making it big and swoopy for the first half, then giving in to your natural tendency to say "oh SH**" at the top along with full up elevator.  If you do this as described, you'll exit the loop about ten feet higher than you entered it -- which is good.  Altitude is your friend.  Starting high is probably a good idea, too.

Starting your first loop at five feet, giving up elevator and thinking "ohgodohgodohgod" while the airplane is just doing it's thing is pretty much a guarantee that it'll whack the ground.

I'm a big for beginners doing survivable maneuvers, no matter how ugly.  Once you can do the maneuver AT ALL, then you can work on doing the maneuver nicely.

[Randy Cuberly]

My opinion is that the best way to learn simple loops if you're having trouble is to have a very experienced flier go out into the circle with you and simply place his hand over yours and do some loops while you relax and watch the airplane and feel his motions.  After about 8 to 10 of these you will actually develop the hand eye coordination to allow you to do it yourself.

I've done this many, many times with beginners and it always works.

Randy Cuberly

[Terry Caron]

I've reset control throw but it'll be the weekend before we fly again.

Sounds like a worthwhile approach, Randy.
There're several in the Nashville group with years of experience, all are willing to help and I'm sure all I need to do is ask.
Mike Londke has flown it thru the basics, so I know it's good to go - I just need confidence that it'll mind me as well. 

 
Terry

[Balsa Butcher]

Technique may be a factor here also. Many new and retread fliers who are learning or re-learning the tricks use too much arm, not enough wrist. To successfully do the stunts especially the squares wrist action is mandatory. Critique yourself or have someone else critique your control motions with that in mind. 

[Terry Caron]

That's certainly an element Pete.
I've not sorted out an integrated balance of arm/wrist movement, not knowing what to expect "if I do this...".

And trying to grasp all that has been suggested, I realize my biggest problem has probably been not being more willing to ask my buddies for direct help.
They've always been happy to aid however they can.

Terry

[Chris Wilson]

Now that you mention it Chris, that's been done for my next attempts.
I think the lack of pull (good or ill) has been a bit unnerving for me.

And I'm ok with (if not great at) the first four - my stumbling block is that first proper loop.
 
Terry

Terry, please accept that I saw on a different forum a Peacemaker that had (from memory) about 15º out thrust supplied by wedged alloy plates under the engine.
Now this was done for the very same reasons as yours, to slow said beast down and according to its author worked very well.

Its just that I don't see the value of mucking around with tuned engine run, changing line lengths, towing streamers, putting props on backwards or other performance degrading stuff.
Best to use that performance in other ways than forward thrust.

Again, good luck.

[Terry Caron]

I have only a few degrees offset Chris, but more can be added if needed.
I have molded nylon wedges.

Tnx .

Terry