Author Topic: It ain't easy! (Read 4272 times)

catdaddy · « **on:** July 06, 2009, 09:37:34 AM »

After watching Palko and Banjock team stunt at Brodak's Joe Gilbert and I thought we'd try it Sunday after everything was done at the Triathlon/Mirror Meet. We discovered a few things:

   The planes should be identical or close to in performance and speed

   You must constantly talk to one another and keep each other informed of what is happening with your plane when
   it's not in sight of the other pilot.

We were practicing wingovers were I would go upright and joe would go inverted and I would go high and joe would stay low. This worked great for 3 or 4 try's. On the last try I ran out of gas as I pulled out of the wingover and said I'm out, but not loud enough or with enough urgency for Joe to change his flight path. I should have said GO HIGH JOE! Instead we met almost dead on in one of the most spectacular mid airs I've ever seen. Balsa and Styrofoam exploded and literally fell straight down in a massive heap of model airplane. Warning...this is graphic

Matt Colan · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2009, 09:48:56 AM »

I can't look at that anymore, LOL. I saw Mike and Dan fly, and it was impressive, especially when they came at each other when they did wingovers.

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2009, 11:43:43 AM »

Holy carnage Batman! That sounds like big fun though...... except for the crashing.

Mike Palko · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2009, 11:46:58 AM »

I knew somebody would try it, however I didn't know if they would come forward.

Don't give up! Dan and I have used our old prop hanging ringmasters with limited success. Turns out the better the airplane is the easier it is to fly in formation (catch 22). Even the PT-19's are a handful when the speed is not dead on. We have found ways to adjust for that, but it's never easy. We are planning to switch to better airplanes for next year and hopefully practice before hand. (Our first full pattern was at the Flyin)

Dan and I would love to have an unofficial "team stunt" event at Brodaks 2010. The spectators would determine the winner by applause. I think everyone (pilots and spectators) would get a real kick out of it! I guess we will see if there is any interest throughout the year.

Thanks for the story and pics! Mike

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2009, 12:12:25 PM »

I hate to see crahses, but on the other hand I'm thinking wheres the You-Tube post??? Ain't no mid-air like a foamy midair - looks like its snowing.

Mike and Dan did a great job, and got better as they worked out their engine sync issues. Just wondering Mike, it would seem a NATURAL to do this with electrics - and you have had some success in that arena

So the crystal ball sez..?

Joe Gilbert · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2009, 01:43:59 PM »

It was the pretties crash I ever saw, just a big puff of balsa and Styrofoam and then they fell to the ground like a flyswatter knocked them to the ground. Quite spectacular.

Garf · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2009, 01:52:26 PM »

That reminds me of some of my early combat matches.

Mike Palko · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2009, 02:05:30 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on July 06, 2009, 12:12:25 PM

Mike and Dan did a great job, and got better as they worked out their engine sync issues. Just wondering Mike, it would seem a NATURAL to do this with electrics - and you have had some success in that arena So the crystal ball sez..?

Don't mention electric Dennis.....

I knew electric would be the way to go because syncing the speed is a non issue. They would repeat time and time again. After fighting engine runs for two weekends and about ten flights Banjock says to me "tell me again why we didn't we make these electric". I almost stepped on his airplane! haha Oh well, we are dealing with the slight vibration and changes each flight. These planes look like they will be short lived and swapped for a more serious ship this winter anyway (still I.C.).

Now I know the Adamisin family won't have to talk anyone into using electric, so maybe they will have a "consistent electric" team for 2010? That would make two teams and kick off a possible event!

Mike

Michael Boucher · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2009, 02:40:04 PM »

Oh the Horror

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2009, 03:13:47 PM »

Most spectacular crash I've ever seen, Joe and Rick were

as well as the few spectators that hadn't already headed for home.

I sugested Saito 40's but think they are going to start with Super Clowns and Fox 35's..

Marvin Denny · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2009, 04:17:18 PM »

sorry i couldn't be there bob--- i would have loved to see that KA-BOOM. but--- my hand would not permit such a drive just after the operation. maybe next time.

bigiron

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2009, 11:24:02 PM »

Quote from: Mike Palko on July 06, 2009, 02:05:30 PM

Now I know the Adamisin family won't have to talk anyone into using electric, so maybe they will have a "consistent electric" team for 2010? That would make two teams and kick off a possible event!

Mike

Mike:
No electric "converts" necessary but I dunno, what you and Dan did was fantastic - not sure I could ever be that coordinated with a team mate to do that like you two did. Never say never but I think the last time I even flew two in a circle (Rats) was in the early 1970's.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2009, 07:22:01 AM »

Need to talk to Mike Talman or Lew Woolard about team flying. I think they did it back in 70's maybe later. They had a write up in one of the magazines. One plane is flown on shorter lines than the other. But they look like they are flying same speed. Too bad Lew got burned out on the forums. DOC Holliday

Don Hutchinson AMA5402 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2009, 07:41:27 AM »

Bob Palmer and J C Yates did this in the 40's with Orwick 64 powered Madman models.

catdaddy · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2009, 07:56:45 AM »

Quote from: Don Hutchinson on July 07, 2009, 07:41:27 AM

Bob Palmer and J C Yates did this in the 40's with Orwick 64 powered Madman models.

I've read about this and always thought it to be very interesting. I really don't understand why it's not an event today. It is stunt with the excitment of combat to a certain degree. The possibility of a mid air supplies some adrenalin to the pilots and some actual excitement to the spectators, much more so than just watching a single plane fly the stunt pattern. If Joe and I can learn this even to a simple routine we will indeed pick up the gauntlet that Mike and Dan have thrown down. We can't let those Philly Flyers have all the fun at Brodaks!

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2009, 08:54:27 AM »

Hmm with the threat of mid-airs and some really juicy crashes - Team Stunt could become interchangeable with Junkyard Wars!

It would be QUITE a challenge to out-phun the Philly Phlyers on their home court at Brodak's! Team Oklahoma could rise to the occasion "sooner" than the rest of us tho!

Mike Palko · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2009, 11:17:02 AM »

Quote from: catdaddy on July 07, 2009, 07:56:45 AM

It is stunt with the excitment of combat to a certain degree. The possibility of a mid air supplies some adrenalin to the pilots and some actual excitement to the spectators, much more so than just watching a single plane fly the stunt pattern.

Catdaddy,
You are so right about the excitement! The Philly Fliers home field is in a state park so we get a lot of people passing by. Even with all the exposure it is unusual to have even one person stop and watch or talk to us. When Dan and I started flying team stunt we very often landed to see a group as large as 15 to 20 people at times standing on the walkway. They would even clap and cheer for us!

We were dumbfounded........ We used to have a mass fly at Brodaks, but it started to get dangerous (airplanes falling in the center of the circle) and turned out to be far more build up than actual flying. It's time for a replacement event!

And a competition to see who has the most fun??? Sounds like even more fun!

Mike

Michael Boucher · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2009, 02:49:46 PM »

I remember seeing twins flying Ringmasters with green monokote wings , powered by Fox 35's. Rest of the planes were finished in clear dope. It was as if the planes were connected together, nose to tail. Amazing to watch.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2009, 03:17:48 PM »

I've always been intriqued by team stunt. Before we both moved from NJ, Lou Wolgast and I were talking about it. It would be great to get enough practice at it to use our good stunters.

Two Classics as a team would be outstanding today. But it will take a trusting partner and lots of practice, to develop a good routine.

Will Davis · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2009, 05:05:16 PM »

Looks like we have 2 teams, one more team and we have a contest .. Dan Banjock's and Mike Palko's routine was really amazing.. Does anyone remember seeing the Team Stunt events of the past, I have read about Bob Palmers and other Team flying , but don't know what they did ... Full pattern or just flying .. , looks like it would be fun.. and a good change from the normal stunt flying for the spectators.

We could have judges like Monster Jam ( Monster Truck Freestyle ) ,. hold up 1 thru 10 scorecards

Will

John Ashford · « **Reply #20 on:** July 07, 2009, 06:06:33 PM »

I'm not so darn sure the "Phony Fliers" have all the fun at Brodak's. The "Okies" and honorary Okies seem to enjoy themselves.

I remember an Article in one of the magazines in the early '70s about a team that dressed in USA flag shirts and flew team PA as demonstrations at Air Shows. Don't know who or where they were from but I do remember the article.

I saw Lew and Mike fly back in the 70's and my long time flying buddy Falcon McAllister and I used to do it just for fun in that time frame. We never got to the point of flying the whole pattern but got pretty darn good at doing the easy stuff together. Too bad I don't have someone here (Guthrie, America) that goes to Brodak. It's hard to only have 1/2 a stunt team.

I'd go for the "Brodak Team Challenge" in a New York minute.

Later, John

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2009, 06:35:23 PM »

Quote from: William Davis on July 07, 2009, 05:05:16 PM

Looks like we have 2 teams, one more team and we have a contest .. Dan Banjock's and Mike Palko's routine was really amazing.. Does anyone remember seeing the Team Stunt events of the past, I have read about Bob Palmers and other Team flying , but don't know what they did ... Full pattern or just flying .. , looks like it would be fun.. and a good change from the normal stunt flying for the spectators.

We could have judges like Monster Jam ( Monster Truck Freestyle ) ,. hold up 1 thru 10 scorecards

Will

Mike and Dan thru down the gaunlet at Brodaks. Ryan and I have been kicking the idea around. But after reading this thread it is giving me second thoughts.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #22 on:** July 08, 2009, 04:11:24 AM »

My good buddy and I played with this back when we were both allot younger. We were trying to follow the other one through the pattern and did OK till we got to the eights. We never figured out how to do the eights without getting the lines all tangled up. The way Dan and Mike did it, (side by side) eliminated the line tangle problem.. If Lloyd and I were not living 1500 miles apart we would probably have another team

Bill Little · « **Reply #23 on:** July 09, 2009, 10:00:22 AM »

I am always hurting from laughter after I see Danny, Mike and crew at Brodak's. Unfortunately, I am not a regular visitor there............... I would have loved to seen the Team Stunt in action!

The friend who got me started in this stuff almost 50 years ago now, and I, flew *formation flight* all the time when we were kids. We didn't know the *pattern*, but we would just cut up and burn up fuel!

It was a blast. Of course, we rode our bikes to the field in *formation*! (think of strapping a Nobler to the bike and riding a few miles.....)

At this point, I have no flying field, or even a regular area, nor do I have a partner to fly with. It is over 100 miles to either site in NC (there are only 2) that has circles and that is not a reasonable, regular, drive for me right now. Hard to keep up the flame when you can't fly at all........

Big Bear

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #24 on:** July 09, 2009, 10:08:10 AM »

Move to Tulsa then you can fly anytime you want

Mike Palko · « **Reply #25 on:** July 09, 2009, 11:21:03 AM »

This is the only picture I have seen of the flights.

Mike

Bill Little · « **Reply #26 on:** July 09, 2009, 01:22:05 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on July 09, 2009, 10:08:10 AM

Move to Tulsa then you can fly anytime you want

Hi Bob,

Thanks, but a move is out of the question I am afraid........

Big Bear

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #27 on:** July 09, 2009, 07:27:31 PM »

Quote from: Mike Palko on July 09, 2009, 11:21:03 AM

This is the only picture I have seen of the flights.

Mike

Mike,
If I can ever get to Best buy and get a fir-wir (aka fire-wire) and card. I will be able to upload some youtube video of the flight.

Paul (aka Slacker)

Mike Palko · « **Reply #28 on:** July 09, 2009, 08:35:11 PM »

Hey Paul,
No Worries. If you ever post I would love to see it, but don't do it on my account. Matt Colan and Don Herdman were very gracious and sent Dan and myself a DVD with one of our flights.

Mike

Matt Colan · « **Reply #29 on:** July 10, 2009, 07:16:20 AM »

Quote from: Mike Palko on July 09, 2009, 08:35:11 PM

Hey Paul,
No Worries. If you ever post I would love to see it, but don't do it on my account. Matt Colan and Don Herdman were very gracious and sent Dan and myself a DVD with one of our flights.

Mike

And Dan sent us note saying bigger planes next year, and according to Mike, Stega ARCs. We'll see next year.

Mike Palko · « **Reply #30 on:** July 21, 2009, 10:39:38 AM »

It ain't easy!

We had our first midair this past Sunday. We were in the overhead eights and flew into each other (stacked up canopy to gear). The hit only stopped the props, but being over head you know what happens with no power. Dan's PT fell to the inside of the circle breaking the inboard wing off and damaging the tail section. My PT turned away from me caught tension and with a little running landed with only a few scratches.

This wasn't the first time

and won't be the last time

.

Mike