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Author Topic: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships  (Read 16517 times)

Offline Al Rabe

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Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« on: January 09, 2007, 05:23:39 PM »

There have been a number of posts recently that I have been tempted to get into but stopped for fear that by saying that I did it first over and over, I might make my points but lose creditability on the basis of poor personality.

Richard Oliver and I have been corresponding a bit recently about stunt ship design.  I wrote this as an e-mail to Richard, and then decided, "what the heck?", I'll stick it on Stuka Stunt.

For what its worth, here is my opinion of a watershed event in stunt ship design.






I designed the molded Mustang, later referred to as Snaggletooth in the fall of 1973.  I feel that airplane had these notable features:
 
1  It was a relatively small aircraft with carefully computed moments and areas.  Its 55" wings were highly loaded with full span 25% flaps and enough lift the win the 1977 NATs, Walker Trophy  and second in the 1978 World Championship,
 
2  It was groovy and stable.  I used the same tail volume coefficient in its design that Brett Buck uses today, (.4).
 
3  After a couple of NATs winning Sea Furys which had no wing asymmetry, I was a strong believer that the 1"-2" typical of the time was too much.  The Mustang was built with 1/2" of asymmetry and had 1/8" wider tip on the outboard flap.  Sound familiar?  Incidentally, all of this information was in an American Aircraft Modeler article in 1978.  My reasoning for the Mustang’s various features were explained in the article.  The design elements were original but not secret.





 
4  The airfoils used were typical of those used on the Sea Fury and based on auto hood top tests.  They were "profiled" with moderate leading edge radius.  Which is to say, the airfoil used was smoothly curved between the high point and wing trailing edge to minimize the discontinuity between the wing and a deflected flap.  Airfoils shown in the article were atypical of the time but would be considered quite up to date now.
 
5  The tank described in the article was original, novel and new.  It was built with the rear outside corner intentionally displaced toward the outboard side of the aircraft.  The explanation in the article reasons that by making the tank more nearly tnagent to the flight path, as opposed to paralleling the airplane's centerline, there would be less fuel remaining after the cloverleaf.  In fact there was so little fuel left after the cloverleaf that I was able to complete the maneuver, fly two level laps and reliably stop the engine by looping the Mustang.  At the time, my movable rudders were adjusted to remove only part of the nose out yaw on inside maneuvers and to overcompensate the inward yaw on outside maneuvers to impart a nose out on outside maneuvers as well.  With little fuel remaining in the tank any nose out yaw would cause the remaining fuel to run to the front uncovering the pickup and stopping the engine.  It worked so well that there was talk about the legality of my tank and looping maneuver to stop the engine at the FAI team trials.
 This feature of tank design was so noticeably effective that it was soon copied by many competitors.  Whether the tank rear is slewed toward the outside or built with wedge fashion with a wider rear end to the tank, the result is the same, cleaner cuts.  Curiously, it doesn't seem very effective with clunk tanks.



 
6  The 1973 Mustang design, E2-S, the first of the Snaggletooth series airplanes, featured a removable wing with screw adjustable length pushrod and variable flap/elevator ration adjustments.  These trimming devices had been used previously on the 1967 Mustang I, the Bearcat III, and both Sea Furys.

7  The design of that Mustang series also featured intentional stabilizer incidence.  It was theoretically and practically desirable and worked well.  This is the first time that I am aware of that incidence was intentionally used to balance inside and outside turning rates on a stunt ship and the reasoning described in a widely distributed article.
 
8  The design also included shock gears, internal muffler, canted engine, movable rudder, tipweight box and the sliding block adjustable leadout guide that I originated in 1969. 9  Modern stunt ships are somewhat characterized by powerful engines.  The 1973 Mustang was a small airplane with a 55" span, built to be competitively powered with a S.T. 46.  Soon it was flying with "stroked" 46 of .51 displacement.  Its final competitions were flown with an engine designed and assembled by me of stock and custom parts. It was true .60 displacement and timed for stunt.  My home made .60 was built to fit into 46 mounts and energetically turn a 13” wide blade prop.  This small Mustang with its .60 was very powerful for the 1970"s and roughly equivalent to today's more competitive airplanes.
 
10  It looked pretty good, which never hurts.



 
What possible feature or characteristic of modern stunt ships did I fail to anticipate 33 years ago.  Why wouldn't this airplane be considered the father of the modern stunt ship?  And for good measure, the article should be required reading for stunt flyers interested in design  (it was reprinted in Stunt News in 2000)
 
Al                                                                                                                         



« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 05:02:16 AM by Al Rabe »

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Re: Is This the Father of Moders stunt Ships
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2007, 05:33:42 PM »
To move pictures go into the thread and edit the tags just as shown. Thanks for posting
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Is This the Father of Moders stunt Ships
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2007, 05:51:24 PM »
Is there anyone that can help me out, I would love to have a copy of that article!  Short of finding a copy of the Stunt news it was in.
Thanks
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Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Moders stunt Ships
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2007, 06:31:13 PM »



Well, I guess I should have known there would be a problem in defining "modern stunt ship".  I certainly wasn't trying to minimize the contributions of George Aldrich, Palmer and other pioneers.  I was just rying to point out where I think the really modern airplane by today's standards appeared.

there's no denying George's contribution to the hobby.  I was one of his greatest fans.

But.....We differ on definition of "modern Stunt ship".  I wasn't claiming that I invented Stunt.  I was just making the point that most of the features we consider normal today appeared in that airplane and the article which described it.

George's original Nobler, exactly as he flew it, measured by any standards, wouldn't be considered competitive today.  It would have an inadequate engine and lack all of the features that we consider necessary today, which actually appeared on the scene 33 years ago in this Mustang. 

My whole point is this 33 year old NATs winning design with its home made .60 engine, would be as competitive today as it was then.  That Mustang included all of the features which define today's "modern stunt ship" and most of those features were original.

In fact, I have reworked the molded 1973 Mustang, Snaggletooth, design to make it available as a laser cut kit with plans and an 18 video set to help in the building.  No aerodynamic changes were necessary.  I eliminated its removable wing with its screw adjustable elevator pushrod and variable ratio adjustment.  In fact, these features were eliminated in the original 1974 molded Mustang VI (Snaggletooth) as no longer necessary.  It simplified and lightened the structure then and considered no longer necessary as the optimum ratio and trims had been determined.  Die hards can still cut hatches under the stab.  The structure was adapted for laser cutting and jig building, the nose structure modified to accept a modern engine and removable tank.  Excepting this, the airplane is pretty much the same as I flew 33 years ago.

Al

« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 08:03:53 PM by Al Rabe »

Offline PatRobinson

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Re: Is This the Father of Moders stunt Ships
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2007, 07:25:28 PM »
Dear Al,
I think you have clearly documented your case about the heritage the Mustang has provided for modern stunt design and what the heck "it ain't bragging if you actually did it".  In fact, there is one area you didn't mention
and that is the influence that a thick wing and big flaps had in 80's stunt designs.
The northeast and then the rest of the country moved to designs with these features. I am not saying that big Jim and others copied the Mustang but they
were trying to solve a different set of design problems and you had already proven that the thick wing big flap concept really worked so they adapted the concept to meet their specific needs and refined it to make it their own.
Someone has to be first, and as far as I know you were the first to use this concept sucessfully.  

I saw the Mustang at the 1977 FAI team trials and like everyone else I was impressed with its looks and flight performance.  If I remember correctly the
tail moment was longer than any other plane of similar size I had ever seen before. This also forshadowed modern designs which now have a range of tail moment configurations.

On SSW some guys seem confused about what "modern designs" actually
means and discussed classic designs.    Al can correct me on this but I believe he meant designs from at least the 1980's forward when he used the word modern.

Al, I would like to thank you for all the inovations and contributions to stunt that you have listed but I also think it is appropriate to thank you for taking a staid and static event like stunt that was filled with Nobler clones and then you opened a door of possibility that has inspired others to add their own inovations and creations and has yielded modern stunt design.
                                                        Respectfully,
                                                        Pat Robinson  

Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Moders stunt Ships
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2007, 08:06:08 PM »
Wow!

Al

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Re: Is This the Father of Moders stunt Ships
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 10:49:18 PM »
Here is a link to read the article by Al Rabe

http://www.stunthangar.com/evolution_of_a_thoroughbread.htm
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Is This the Father of Moders stunt Ships
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2007, 10:54:00 PM »
Thanks Robert! Thats what I needed, more information for the brain never hurts
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Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2007, 05:17:25 AM »
Is there anyone that can help me out, I would love to have a copy of that article!  Short of finding a copy of the Stunt news it was in.
Thanks

Mark,

That article appeared in the Aug 1978 issue of Flying Models.  It was reprinted in the Mar/Apr 2000 issue of Stunt News. That issue also included my making it into the PAMPA Hall of Fame.  The current issue of the AMA rag, er, I mean mag, has buried in the back a number of us being inducted into the AMA Hall of Fame.

Anyway,  you can probably bum an old copy of Stunt News from somebody.  Plan "B" would be to buy one of my new unopened issues of the Aug 1978 Flying Models.  I happen to have a few spares sent to me by the publisher. Price, $10 including S&H.  You shoulda bought it in 1978 when it cost only a buck.  I also have a couple extra new Mar/Apr 2000 Stunt News.

I also have a few copies of the American Aircraft Modeler June 1969 and March 1970 issues.  These contain the first Mustang I and Bearcat II articles. Same price.  I'm 71.  Who am I going to leave them to?

When checking out my magazine stash for this reply, I noticed that I have no extra American Aircraft Modeler March 1973 issues which contain the Sea Fury article but it was reprinted in the Nov/Dec 2002 Stunt News.  I have a few of those.  I also have a few American aircraft Modeler Feb 1972 issues which contain the Mustunt article.  All of these salable issues are new and unopened.

Al
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 07:19:55 AM by Al Rabe »

Offline Jerry Bohn

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2007, 12:01:35 PM »
Al, I have often thought of building a Mustang for a very long time. I always thought for years that I would purchase a Sig Mustang kit. Now I have waited too long since the kit is no longer made. My desire to build a Mustang, a .40-46 engine size is still strong.
How close to your Mustang was the Sig kit made? I know there were changes by kit manufacturers but am curious as to just how close Sig and your design are, just in case I run across an old Sig Kit. No need to do along reply. Close, not even close, or don't bother will do for my purposes.
Jerry Bohn

Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2007, 02:46:32 PM »
 
Al, I have often thought of building a Mustang for a very long time. I always thought for years that I would purchase a Sig Mustang kit. Now I have waited too long since the kit is no longer made. My desire to build a Mustang, a .40-46 engine size is still strong.
How close to your Mustang was the Sig kit made? I know there were changes by kit manufacturers but am curious as to just how close Sig and your design are, just in case I run across an old Sig Kit. No need to do along reply. Close, not even close, or don't bother will do for my purposes.

Jerry,

There is very little similarity.  Snaggletooth II's construction is much more sophiscticated and demanding of a high level of craftsmanchip.  For the effort, it has more capable performance and more scale-like appearance.

Al

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2007, 05:39:26 AM »
Hey Al, good to see you over here.

How much trouble would it be for you to repost your wiggle rudder info. I was lucky enough to save what you posted on Stuka a couple years ago but trying to find it so I can refer others is a real problem. Would be really cool to have some of your great knowledge available here.

Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2007, 10:56:29 AM »
Bob,

That was a good article (for those who took the time to try to understand it).  A better article on the rudder was in the Jan/Feb 2005 issue of Stunt News containing a less technical, more useful explanation of the rudder and how to use it.  That article had a bunch of photos too which illustrated what I was talking about.

Al




EDIT content
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 05:27:45 PM by Robert Storick »

Offline Jerry Bohn

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2007, 01:59:57 PM »
Al Thanks for your reply. I think I will stop my search for an old Sig kit. Looks like if  wish a Mustang, I will hae to do it the old way unless someone knows of another decent flying kit. I'm not a scrach builder, I'm lucky if I get the kits to come out properly.
I have the Jan/Feb Stunt News with your artical. Seems there should be away to get that out to those on the forum who wish to see it or at least get the information in it, without you doing a bunch of typing again.

Sparky, any suggestions
Jerry Bohn

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2007, 05:18:51 PM »

Jerry,

There is very little similarity.  Snaggletooth II's construction is much more sophiscticated and demanding of a high level of craftsmanchip.  For the effort, it has more capable performance and more scale-like appearance.

Al

Hi Al,

I would say that the ONLY similarity would be that the Sig kit was called a Mustang.  That's where it stops.  Without a lot of care in shaving weight on the Sig kit, it is little more than a good sport flyer.  I know several have flown them in competition, but the only way seems to be through a good bit of modifications if you want a really good flying plane.

Your Mustangs, on the other hand, are true competition planes, yet look way too scale to be thought of as "Stunt Machines".  They do take a good bit of building knowledge to do correctly, and they definitely are worth the effort!
Big Bear <><

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Offline PatRobinson

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2007, 06:15:57 PM »
 To : Jerry

Jerry, you might check out Model Aviation March 1978 because will find a very well done Mustang by Al Myers. The artlicle states that Mr. Myers is a follower of Al Rabe who pursued scale looking stunt and the good news for you is that this airplane was sized for 40-46 Tigre engines. The only noticeable deviation from scale is a lack of dihedral but it is a thousand times
closer to Mustang looks than the inferior Sig kit. Well Jerry, this might be a possiblity for you and it looks to be a little less challenging to build than AL Rabe's "masterpiece Mustangs".  You should be able to go to AMA to get plans
article.  Jerry, I hope this helps.
                                                    Best of luck,
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Offline Jerry Bohn

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2007, 07:21:46 PM »
Looks like I may have to give scratch building a try. I'm presently starting a Brodak Ares I won on the forum Christmas Drawing. I never have built an I-beam. Just recieved the vidio from Bob Hunt about "Building I-beam Wings" and am raring to start that learning experience. Especially with Mr. Wewage at my side on the tube.
Will check with AMA to see if I can get Al Myers plan.
Thanks all for the advice and information.

Jerry
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2007, 07:34:55 PM »
Looks like I may have to give scratch building a try. I'm presently starting a Brodak Ares I won on the forum Christmas Drawing. I never have built an I-beam. Just recieved the vidio from Bob Hunt about "Building I-beam Wings" and am raring to start that learning experience. Especially with Mr. Wewage at my side on the tube.
Will check with AMA to see if I can get Al Myers plan.
Thanks all for the advice and information.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

You will find (I do believe) that building from plans is a very satisfying method of modeling.  And it's not at all difficult.

Check your Private Messages!
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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2007, 08:01:28 PM »
EVERYONE READ THIS SLOWLY. THIS FORUM IS NOT A PLACE TO AIR ANY LAUNDRY!
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2016, 09:22:16 PM »
Tripped over THIS on ' Google Pictures ' , Thought Id ' throw it to the wolves ' as it were . S?P

Aerodynamically , ( airfoils / moments / powertrain development ) mabe so .
Can be almost as much trouble to build a decent semi scale job , as put a decent finish on something in Botswana .  VD~

There'd be a few ?? that arnt familiar with the ' Al Mustang ' perhaps . And a LOGICAL , Progressive ' discussion ' empasiseing
'DEVELOPMENTS ' rather than Browie Points , might get some train of concept of what ' a Modern Stunt Ship '  :-\ actually is . >:(

If We Stick to Those Lines .  :## ;D

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2016, 09:57:57 PM »
 
 It's nice to see this revisited. Al's Mustangs and all of his other semi-scale stunt ships have always been at the top of my "All Time Cool" C/L model list. They represent the epitome in scale appearance combined with high end stunt capability. Walker's B-17 is right there in my book too. Billy's P-47 is a great design as well but not quite as scale appearing. These are the types of models I wish I was capable of building, but can only admire and dream about.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Offline PerttiMe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2016, 08:41:08 AM »
Al's Mustangs and all of his other semi-scale stunt ships have always been at the top of my "All Time Cool" C/L model list. They represent the epitome in scale appearance combined with high end stunt capability....
Definitely. I'm generally not too concerned about scale fidelity in models - but if it looks good it looks good, and if it flies right it flies right. These certainly do both  H^^
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2016, 09:44:12 AM »
A two part complete article, 25,047 words and 61 photos, about stunt ships and their design and construction appeared in the Control Line World October 2008 and January 2008.  This was a big article and required two issues to print it all. It also includes, in Book one an additional Mustang construction of 53,662 words and 534 photos.  Book 1, book 2, and Book 3 in my Al's Models DVD contains 187,426 words and 1601 photos.  This, I would think, is the most informative collection of information about stunt available anywhere.

Al

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2016, 10:04:47 AM »
Any video of these flying the pattern?


Thanks,
MM

Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2016, 10:51:25 AM »
I think that there is a full pattern on youtube.  I'll try to find the link

Al

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2016, 11:19:36 AM »
Curiously, it doesn't seem very effective with clunk tanks.

Oh crap.  I'm arguing with a Stunt God.  Oh well -- here goes.

In my experience (and that of a lot of other people), bumping the back of a clunk tank outboard makes for a much cleaner cutoff, if it doesn't help with a cutoff loop.  I've never been able to use it for a cutoff loop, but without the bump-out you have this long drawn out "brrrp ..... brrrp ..... brrrp" before the plane finally stops; with the bump-out the engine just stops.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Is This the Father of Moders stunt Ships
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2016, 11:59:27 AM »
Dear Al,
(Part deleted)
On SSW some guys seem confused about what "modern designs" actually
means and discussed classic designs.    Al can correct me on this but I believe he meant designs from at least the 1980's forward when he used the word modern.

Al, I would like to thank you for all the inovations and contributions to stunt that you have listed but I also think it is appropriate to thank you for taking a staid and static event like stunt that was filled with Nobler clones and then you opened a door of possibility that has inspired others to add their own inovations and creations and has yielded modern stunt design.
                                                        Respectfully,
                                                        Pat Robinson  

Actually Al's first mustang of this Type is Classic Legal and therefore "Truly a Classic" Airplane!

Randy Cuberly
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2016, 12:17:47 PM »
I think that there is a full pattern on youtube.  I'll try to find the link

Al

This one?

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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Bill Johnson

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2016, 01:07:54 PM »
This one?

To me, it wouldn't be half as cool without the smoke and sound of an engine.  H^^
Best Regards,
Bill

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2016, 01:09:34 PM »
Really guys, if Al still has them, get the complete CD set from Al and prepare to be reading for many hours.  
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Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2016, 01:15:54 PM »
That's the youtube video but this time there was no audio.  Usually there is normal audio on that web site for that video.

Al

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2016, 01:28:50 PM »
That's the youtube video but this time there was no audio.  Usually there is normal audio on that web site for that video.

Al
There was audio when I played it back?
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Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2016, 02:09:55 PM »
Oh!  I guess I have to turn up the volume on my computer.  The video brings back memories.  That video was taken (one or four patterns videoed that day) on a day when I had less than 20 flights in the past 4 years.  It all comes back after a bit.  Got to get back out again.  I have a Profile Bearcat and new Snaggletooth Mustang (The 25,000 word one made while making the Mustang part of Al's Models, Book 1) which have never been flown.  I also sent my MUstunt 4 down to John Hill's to get sorted out.  The Critical Mass hasn't been flown since I lengthened the nose or the blue Snaggletooth since I rebuilt the inboard wing and the newest BBFB Bearcat still has only two flights.

Looks like I gotta get out soon.

How did you like that engine run and the command shutoff on just the second lap after the cloverleaf.  Its in the tank design I developed to avoid overruns in FAI patterns covered in that same article.

Al
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 03:16:34 PM by Al Rabe »

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2016, 07:17:34 PM »
This one?



 That's what a perfect engine run sounds like.  y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2016, 07:20:05 PM »
To me, it wouldn't be half as cool without the smoke and sound of an engine.  H^^

 Right on Bill.  y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2016, 09:27:36 PM »
Theres two ' windy ' tapes on u tube , at Texas . Visiting Al , and out Flying the P-51 , & Critical Mass Sea Fury . with the 4 strokes . SOMEWHERE . :-\

Offline Gordon Van Tighem

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2016, 09:09:19 AM »
Al,
I had the privilege to see you fly at the 1978 Riverside Nats and have subsequently seen copies of your plane flying here in Canada and at VSC. Not only have you been innovative and inventive, but your design is successfully replicated by others, indicating a true contribution to our event. Additionally, your ongoing willingness to share your accumulated wisdom augers well for our future. I have personally spent many enjoyable hours poring over your articles.
Thank you for sharing your findings and I do hope to meet up with you again some day.
Gord VT
(The Windy tapes on you tube were posted by CL Guy)
Gord VT
MAAC 3738L, Life Member
AMA C3738L

Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2016, 10:36:27 AM »
The two part 25,000 word article published in two parts by Control Line World was, in my opinion, my best, most informative single article that I ever wrote.  That single article had a large number of stunt building, design and stunt lore monographs individually headed in bold printing. These monographs include:

Dihedral
Me 163B flying wing semi-scale stunt ship
Rabe rudder
1967 Mustang
First published wing jig tube construction
1967 Take apart construction
1967 Screw adjustable elevator pushrod length
1967 Variable flap/elevator ratio adjustments
Sea Fury
Bearcat III
Mustunt II
Reversed bellcrank
1968 First sliding block leadout adjustment
Airfoil design
Asymmetric airfoils
F-51 Snaggletooth I
Tail volume calculations
1973 Shock Gears
1973 Mustang V incidence
1973 Canted tank
1973 Canted engine
1973 Internal muffler
Jig built fuselages
Rabe 10 stunt engine
Aux tank (extra) in the engine compartment
Hornet multi-engine stunt ship
Ultimate Spitfire
Millennium Mustang
Control system geometry
BBQB Bearcat
BBQB bellcrank mount
BBQB Molded fuselage
Snaggletooth II
Critical Mass
Millennium Cavalier

This complete article is included in my Al's Models DVD.  That 187,000 word 1601 photo DVD is the largest compendium of stunt information that I'm aware of.

Al
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 04:24:56 PM by Al Rabe »

Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2016, 01:17:50 PM »
Here's another excerpt from the Control Line World article which should give an idea of the depth of information in each of the topics mentioned above.

Al
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 02:23:02 PM by Al Rabe »

Offline RogerGreene

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2016, 04:27:06 PM »
Sparky, reply #6 is not active. Can you make it active?

Thanks,
Roger
Fly Stunt <><
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USAF Veteran 1962-66 SAC
Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% of how you react to it. FAA #FA3RFLPAN7

Offline Al Rabe

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2016, 07:16:22 PM »
Roger,

Looks like that was the first in depth article of the design features in an article called "Al's Mustang- Evolution of a throughbred". It was a good article which touched on a lot of the design issues discussed here, but didn't dig into each in the depth of the Control Line World article.  It was published initially in the August 1978 issue of Flying Models. I still have a few copies left, and, I think some of CLW.

Al

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2016, 12:47:27 AM »












BOTHER . If you GO HERE : http://vcconline.go-forum.net/t1487-al-rabe-mustang and CLICK on the little things At The TOP , they go considerably bigger . ;)

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2016, 09:56:34 AM »
Quote
Any video of these flying the pattern?

Eureka , etc .



Theres another of visit to als and / or ( both 0 Fling the Millenium Mustang , if anyone finds perhaps theyd post it here , thanks .

ER , 1:30 odd ,



RIGHT ; P-51 from 18:00 Odd .


« Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 04:02:51 PM by Air Ministry . »

Offline phil c

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2016, 02:15:09 PM »
Al, if you want to call that plane the Father of Modern Stunt I'll agree.  Your series of designs were ground breaking, particularly in the thorough and thoughtful experimentation that went into them, not to mention thousands of practice flights.  My only unfulfilled wish for a semi-scale stunter would be retracts.  The only time I've seen a P-51 do aerobatics with the gear down was done by Bob Hoover.
phil Cartier

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Re: Is This the Father of Modern stunt Ships
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2016, 03:49:29 PM »
BEARCAT Saitio Flying .



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