Is the cost of freight killing cottage industries?

[rob biddle]

 Hey Folks, I was just looking at purchasing 2 classic kits from a well known supplier and looks like the freight will be a deal breaker.

I have excellent service from these guys in the past, this post is by no means an attack on them and I'd certainly like to support them further.

Where I live in Australia, decent quality, lightweight balsa is becoming increasingly difficult (if not impossible) to come by, hence the desire to order a couple of kits from the U.S.

By the time I factor in the kit prices, exchange rate, freight and then 10% gst on top to my own thieving grubberment the entire cost comes to $742 Aud. Around $240 Aud of this is shipping.

Recently I purchased a front mudguard and new stainless engine pipes for an old BMW motorcycle from the U.K. It all came in a box around the same size that I have received c/l kits in in the past. Roughly 1' square by 3.5' long. The shipping came to less than $65 Aud all up.

I can't help think that the freight companies are making probably close to 80% of business for American cottage industry suppliers to the outside world unviable.

Does anyone know of any (legal) means to get stuff out of the U.S at reasonable prices?

Cheers, Rob.

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

I live in Canada and am in the same boat you are.  I can't afford to order kits anymore either.  Shipping doubles (or more) the cost of the kit and when one is on a fixed income.....well....no more kits.  I have found that Amazon has free shipping on certain items; although they do ad some shipping into the price, so its not really free, but it is cheaper.

[mark romanowitz]

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[rob biddle]

 Glenn, I'm fortunate that I currently have the option of overtime at work to pay for my toys even though I should be focussing a bit harder on our mortgage. We are in a pretty good place at present though.

 Mark, that's an interesting comparison. The only option being offered for freight on the website is USPS priority mail express international.

 I see the freight cost does reduce slightly if I order more items in one shipment. The freight for 4 kits comes out at $230 USD as opposed to $150 USD for 2 kits. It's a big stretch as those 4 kits will owe me roughly $1375.50 Aussie peso's landed on my doorstep.

 Looks like more overtime days in the saltmine coming up

 Cheers, Rob.

[Richard Field]

Hi Rob,

PM me what you're after. I bought a few kits back when the US$ was at parity & on business trips to US/Canada so may have what you're looking for. Postage would be from Sydney if needed.

Cheers,
Richard

[Gary Dowler]

Shipping is a issue to be sure. However, what I think will do more to harm small businesses will he states or local government forcing the inclusion of sales tax on internet purchases.

Gary

[Mike Griffin]

It has probably been a year or more since I sent a kit to Australia but then it was between 50-$60.00 Dollars by priority international.  That was for a standard 5 fold kit box like we all use to ship kits.  Measures about 4" x 5" x 37" .  And, it is getting worse.  To ship a kit from the West coast to the East Coast by priority mail is now over $20.00. 

Freight has become a major factor now. 


Mike

[rob biddle]

 Mike, it's a real shame.

 Most of the modern kits are works of art now and lots of us outside the U.S would love to get amongst it.

 Rob.

[Keith Renecle]

Don't complain guys! Here in South Africa our currency is over 14 times the US$ and we can't reliably use our Post office because most of your stuff disappears. We therefore have to use the couriers and that costs a hellavu lot more. It would be great to buy kits, and of course competition grade balsa. Sometimes we can get good balsa from certain hobby shops, but it costs plenty. It seems like a universal problem!

[Steve Helmick]

"Where I live in Australia, decent quality, lightweight balsa is becoming increasingly difficult (if not impossible) to come by, hence the desire to order a couple of kits from the U.S."

Next time you're going to head down toward Melbourne, make an appointment to stop by Pel-Aero in Greensboro and buy some good balsa. Peter Lloyd has it, and most the stunt and FF guys get it from him.  Steve

[qaz049]

"Where I live in Australia, decent quality, lightweight balsa is becoming increasingly difficult (if not impossible) to come by, hence the desire to order a couple of kits from the U.S."

Next time you're going to head down toward Melbourne, make an appointment to stop by Pel-Aero in Greensboro and buy some good balsa. Peter Lloyd has it, and most the stunt and FF guys get it from him.  Steve

Old news, last time anyone mentioned him he was out of business.

[Bob Hunt]

I ship quite a number of wings to Australia and to Japan each year. The boxes are nominally 8 inches by 15 inches by 32 inches, and weigh in the five pound range. I typically pay in the 50 to 60 dollar range to ship them.

Hope this helps - Bob Hunt

[Mike Griffin]

To add to what Keith said above about the theft,  I had a guy in Brazil tell me that most of the stuff he ordered never made it to him because of theft and would go to extremes to have something shipped down there to him.  The corruption and theft was horrible.

Mike

[Mike Griffin]

Mike, it's a real shame.

 Most of the modern kits are works of art now and lots of us outside the U.S would love to get amongst it.

 Rob.

I always felt bad for the guys outside of the US and what they had to pay in shipping.  Makes it hard to justify sometimes.   


Mike

[Curare]

I ship quite a number of wings to Australia and to Japan each year. The boxes are nominally 8 inches by 15 inches by 32 inches, and weigh in the five pound range. I typically pay in the 50 to 60 dollar range to ship them.

Hope this helps - Bob Hunt

Bob, there's recently been a tax imposed on international goods so we get stung heavily buying stuff from the US especially. It makes cheap deals pretty unpalatable, for instance buying a Tee Dee .049 from the states was less than $50, but shipping was $38! For a Tee Dee!

[Bob Hunt]

Yikes, Curare!

That's not good news. I have a $600-plus dollar order almost ready to ship to Australia. I hope my customer knows what he's in for...

Thanks (I think) for the info.

Bob

[Dallas Hanna]

Old news, last time anyone mentioned him he was out of business.

Not so!  Pete's website doesn't work now but he still has good supplies so shoot him an email for price list.  Haven't got address but look him up on Barton under user name of TOTH.  He is also on FB under the name of (Surprise) Peter Lloyd 

[qaz049]

Not so!  Pete's website doesn't work now but he still has good supplies so shoot him an email for price list.  Haven't got address but look him up on Barton under user name of TOTH.  He is also on FB under the name of (Surprise) Peter Lloyd 

Have you checked lately? I think you'll find I'm right, otherwise might only be selling to close personal friends  :-)

[Dallas Hanna]

Have you checked lately? I think you'll find I'm right, otherwise might only be selling to close personal friends  :-)

In the past Peter loaded his car with balsa and took it to gatherings etc.  These days it is pre ordered packs which he takes to the comps etc which he attends to be picked up by the person who ordered it or a person acting for the one who placed the order.  That was up until a couple of months ago.

H

[Dallas Hanna]

Have you checked lately? I think you'll find I'm right, otherwise might only be selling to close personal friends  :-)

Yes I have checked directly with Peter and he is still supplying good comp.  grade balsa locally in OZ by mail order throughout the country.   I guess I'm still right on this one Ray and you lose 

Bob (Hunt).  Yes to the 10% tax (our Goods and Services Tax) on all purchases outside Australia.  Not sure on how it will be collected on purchases with emailed credit card purchases to suppliers as yourself but paypal/fleabay add it at sale.  In the past it was only on sales above A$1000 as far as I know.

H

[qaz049]

Yes I have checked directly with Peter and he is still supplying good comp.  grade balsa locally in OZ by mail order throughout the country.   I guess I'm still right on this one Ray and you lose 

Thanks Herb, it's always a delight to be corrected by yourself, because you're such a gentleman. Also glad to hear that Peter's still in business and that it's not a secret. We were talking about balsa sources at the club awhile ago and someone said that he'd retired and moved away. That's where my information came from :-)

[Dallas Hanna]

Thanks Herb, it's always a delight to be corrected by yourself, because you're such a gentleman. Also glad to hear that Peter's still in business and that it's not a secret. We were talking about balsa sources at the club awhile ago and someone said that he'd retired and moved away. That's where my information came from :-)

All good Ray.  With the demise of all the regular model shops we have to look after the cottage suppliers such as Peter.  He said that his supplier will be increasing costs by 4.5% in the new year.  Hopefully he will continue into the future for us.

By the reports re hobby shops around the US, our American friends who actually still scratch build have the same diminishing supply chain.

H

[qaz049]

All good Ray.  With the demise of all the regular model shops we have to look after the cottage suppliers such as Peter.  He said that his supplier will be increasing costs by 4.5% in the new year.  Hopefully he will continue into the future for us.

By the reports re hobby shops around the US, our American friends who actually still scratch build have the same diminishing supply chain.

H

Not only with Balsa. A friend wants to build a Pietenpol, a 1930's style parasol  all spruce light aircraft from American kits. The wing and fuselage kits which are all spruce cost 350% the US price when exchange, shipping, GST, are added. For example a Fuselage kit is USD1100 and AUD4000.

[Chris McMillin]

Not only with Balsa. A friend wants to build a Pietenpol, a 1930's style parasol  all spruce light aircraft from American kits. The wing and fuselage kits which are all spruce cost double the US cost when exchange, shipping, GST, are added. For example a Fuselage kit is USD1100 and AUD4000.

So true but not only is there an increase in price, but time because of rarity. Spuce spars are to be clear of knots and have minimum grain count. The finding of this lumber is becoming harder because of quick grow forests, the older lumber supply is less and is therefore increasing the time fulfilling orders. My Knight Twisters have one piece wings therefore require long, clear, minimum requirement spar lumber and it's getting tough to find. I think it is Chief and Wicks have quit offering these long spars for the time being and I have an order into Aircraft Spruce which is ongoing.

In the pics the completed wings had airworthy spars and required only repair and new covering with readily available (but pricey) Mahogany and Spruce 1/16th ply sheeting. The pics of the damaged bottom wing is a 13 footer requiring at least the rear spar replacement and this is the tough one.

Chris..

[qaz049]

So true but not only is there an increase in price, but time because of rarity. Spuce spars are to be clear of knots and have minimum grain count. The finding of this lumber is becoming harder because of quick grow forests, the older lumber supply is less and is therefore increasing the time fulfilling orders. My Knight Twisters have one piece wings therefore require long, clear, minimum requirement spar lumber and it's getting tough to find. I think it is Chief and Wicks have quit offering these long spars for the time being and I have an order into Aircraft Spruce which is ongoing.

In the pics the completed wings had airworthy spars and required only repair and new covering with readily available (but pricey) Mahogany and Spruce 1/16th ply sheeting. The pics of the damaged bottom wing is a 13 footer requiring at least the rear spar replacement and this is the tough one.

Chris..

There are local substitutes but they're slightly inferior in mechanical properties. Makes you wonder whether to risk them or spend up big. Sitka Spruce is a 100% reliable material.

Nice woodwork on the aircraft by the way.

[Mike Griffin]

Pertaining to the original question, I sent a kit from New Orleans to Australia yesterday and the postage was $58.00 by Priority International Mail.  It was a standard kit box measuring 5" wide by 4" high by 37" long and weighed 2 1/2 lbs. 

Mike

[Andre Ming]

A bit on the negative side, but...

I suspect what will be killing the cottage industry will not so much be postage, but death itself. As the owners age-out, there will not likely be anyone that is willing to take on a labor-intensive, low return, business for a shrinking market.

For the sake of the C/L faithful, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

Andre

[Mike Griffin]

A bit on the negative side, but...

I suspect what will be killing the cottage industry will not so much be postage, but death itself. As the owners age-out, there will not likely be anyone that is willing to take on a labor-intensive, low return, business for a shrinking market.

For the sake of the C/L faithful, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

Andre

Andre that is not negative, it is a fact and the truth.  Most of us that are doing this are in our 70's and although by todays standards that might not be ancient but it is getting "on up there".   I have no idea what, if any, plans people like Eric Rule or John Brodak have for handing their businesses over to a son, nephew, friend etc. but they are two of the largest control line kit manufacturers that are left and do this on a full time basis and when they are gone, so may be the business.  I am, or have been, a true cottage kit business but have to contract out my laser cutting and plan plotting because I simply do not have the room or the money for the equipment. 


I am about at the end of my kit producing career for a lot of reasons and including the ones that you wrote in your last paragraph in your post.  The CAD files still exist on the scores of models I have produced over the years but someone in the future will have to have the equipment, knowledge and desire to carry it on into the future and keep producing those models.  I don't know if that is going to happen.


The people in this industry will tell you that they do it for the love of the hobby, not the money. It would be delusional to assume otherwise.

Mike