stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: John Lindberg on December 28, 2021, 05:59:28 AM
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Is there any reason to sign up for the New Year to PAMPA? What does one get for a membership? D>K
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https://pampacl.org/
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Is there any reason to sign up for the New Year to PAMPA? What does one get for a membership? D>K
I would recommend keeping the organization going for the same reason it was created by Keith Trostle and the Old Guard back in the 70s. It prevented AMA from killing Precision CLPA by providing an advocacy group that kept CLPA alive in the mind of AMA. And provides bodies to run the Nationals.
One thing that would help would be the restart of the bimonthly newsletter Stunt News, even online, would indicate interest and provide some impetus to preserving the sport.
Finally, having access to past issues of Stunt News online is fantastic. That alone along with the latest articles on construction, trimming, and flying are worth the annual dues.
Tom
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By all means keep it alive. For all of the reasons Tom mentioned. Without PAMPA there would probably be no PA today. Even with the politics, it is worth the dues.
Ken
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Is there any reason to sign up for the New Year to PAMPA? What does one get for a membership? D>K
All PAMPA content is online now, whether it be on the website or on facebook. All of the back issues for Stunt News are available on the website to dues paying members. There is also periodic content posted on the website for tips, articles and contest reports. I am running the facebook page and try to keep the page active with at least one post per week. The cost of printing the magazine became too high for the amount we were sending out and all content shifted to online only
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I’d be curious to hear about the ‘politics’ involved..
Dave
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What happened to PAMPA Products such as plans? D>K
Ty that is somewhat a complex answer. The merchandise other than plans is all but gone. I’ve carried most everything to the last two Nats and sold it there. Demand is non-existent and I can’t see investing any more money into it to replenish. Mostly what’s left are a few books that nobody at the Nats cared to buy.
As for the plans- we had someone come forward who was going to deal with that through his own business operation, printing and mailing. The files were all sent last winter and .... silence since.
I must say I’ve been asked for, I think, three sets of plans in two+ years. We CAN put the list back up on the website. However there is nobody willing to do the footwork to go get prints made, packaged and mailed. I have other things to do on my days off. We could though send PDF’s for a fee and you just go ‘roll yer own’. We can talk about that. The other thing- the price to copy and mail went through the roof. Break even for a set of plans is north of $30.
Dave
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I sell all my airplane plans as full size .pdf files for $5.00 per set. When my plotter went out it was too old to get it fixed and I can't justify $4000.00 for a new one. The cost of having plans plotted and then the cost of postage makes selling paper plans a non-starter. When I have plans plotted for my airplane and boat kits I involve about 35 miles of travel plus the cost of the plotting.
PAMPA should offer full size .pdf files of all the plans at a reasonable fee and zero for shipping because they are emailed to the buyer. Sending an email reply with the plan files attached take up just a couple of minutes of someone's time.
Pat
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That would be something better discussed offline. I'll remove my post.
I am as curious as Dave, as far as I know, PAMPA politics are more-or-less a dead issue (compared to the past). I have quite intentionally avoided any involvement for years, having done what I thought was my duty, so I admit I am out of any loops, but I haven't seen any significant controversy in recent years.
Brett
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I sell all my airplane plans as full size .pdf files for $5.00 per set. When my plotter went out it was too old to get it fixed and I can't justify $4000.00 for a new one. The cost of having plans plotted and then the cost of postage makes selling paper plans a non-starter. When I have plans plotted for my airplane and boat kits I involve about 35 miles of travel plus the cost of the plotting.
PAMPA should offer full size .pdf files of all the plans at a reasonable fee and zero for shipping because they are emailed to the buyer. Sending an email reply with the plan files attached take up just a couple of minutes of someone's time.
Pat
This is a very good idea.
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As a former PAMPA district representative, I can attest that our hobby (and PAMPA) lacks sufficient volunteers.
If someone wants the PAMPA plans distributed as pdf files, by email, as described above; an offer to volunteer for the duty of managing the effort might increase the likelihood of it happening.
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I joined PAMPA again for 22' primarily because I want to support C/L and associated organizations.
Thanks to Dave and the other guy whose name i cant remember for getting the VISA card payment set up.
That was probably a big help in getting more members.
In the Glue Dobbers clubhouse recently I found a 2002 printed STUNT NEWS and really enjoyed reading all the good stuff, looking at all the great pictures and putting faces onto some of the names I have heard.
Waiting for better weather now....
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As recently as 2019, PAMPA had a working web site and a Stunt News posted on a bi-monthly basis. Bob Hunt was the Editor and pled with someone to replace him. Dennis was PAMPA President.
Things worked: the web site wasn't fancy, but worked.
A membership list was there.
There were columns by District Directors that featured not only top flyers, but Joe Bellcrank types as well.
The....POOF Stunt News as we had come to know and love, disappeared.
Supporting PAMPA today gets access to a crummy web site.
I will continue to support PAMPA because, as mentioned, they're all CLPA has with the AMA.
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https://pampacl.org/
Nothing new there. D>K S?P
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The....POOF Stunt News as we had come to know and love, disappeared.
Supporting PAMPA today gets access to a crummy web site.
I will continue to support PAMPA because, as mentioned, they're all CLPA has with the AMA.
That crummy website you speak of has the membership directory, articles, and all of the past Stunt News……
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As recently as 2019, PAMPA had a working web site and a Stunt News posted on a bi-monthly basis. Bob Hunt was the Editor and pled with someone to replace him. Dennis was PAMPA President.
Things worked: the web site wasn't fancy, but worked.
A membership list was there.
There were columns by District Directors that featured not only top flyers, but Joe Bellcrank types as well.
The....POOF Stunt News as we had come to know and love, disappeared.
Supporting PAMPA today gets access to a crummy web site.
I will continue to support PAMPA because, as mentioned, they're all CLPA has with the AMA.
As you well know THAT version of PAMPA went broke. This version of PAMPA got re-funded through the gift of a dying member. This version of PAMPA STILL lost a little money this year but nothing damaging. Our crummy website is the best we have been able to make it to this point and is what we have. Our mailboxes are better filled with new material rather than complaints...
Your continued support is appreciated
Dave
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I would consider PAMPA Membership of more value than our AMA. When time comes I will renew just to support the stunt community. D>K
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Man I tell ya......some of you guys must have nothing to do except complain.
A couple of posts on this thread should be deleted primarily because a new guy....and some of the old guys to C/L will certainly be discouraged by reading these toxic comments!
If I was a moderator.....they would already be deleted....and more if I was allowed.
I know that most of you complainers can afford 11 cents per day to support PAMPA!
It doesn't make a damn bit of difference to you guys that think nothing at all about spending what ever it takes to get an airplane into the air.
As far as the "Joe bellcrank" derogatory comment.....I would love to comment on that term but I surely would get tossed off here with all the 4 letter and more words I would like to use to show my appreciation.
Pea....I hope you keep on supporting PAMPA but......you should delete that "Joe" comment right now!
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Man I tell ya......some of you guys must have nothing to do except complain.
A couple of posts on this thread should be deleted primarily because a new guy....and some of the old guys to C/L will certainly be discouraged by reading these toxic comments!
If I was a moderator.....they would already be deleted....and more if I was allowed.
I know that most of you complainers can afford 11 cents per day to support PAMPA!
It doesn't make a damn bit of difference to you guys that think nothing at all about spending what ever it takes to get an airplane into the air.
As far as the "Joe bellcrank" derogatory comment.....I would love to comment on that term but I surely would get tossed off here with all the 4 letter and more words I would like to use to show my appreciation.
Pea....I hope you keep on supporting PAMPA but......you should delete that "Joe" comment right now!
Welcome to PAMPA's world for the last 40 years, dealing with Peabody and his ilk - who ALSO heavily influenced the other problems we have had. He is also the primary spokesman for the attempt at creating and utterly phony "class warfare" nonsense, as you note. This was part of their attempt to divide and conquer, setting various people against each other.
Peabody is one of the people on the short list where you can assume almost anything he says is some sort of snide or cynical attempt to sow discord, character assasination, or cause some sort of a problem. And thus, should be ignored. He was handing out business cards where he proclaimed himself "Antichrist of Stunt" almost 30 years ago - and hasn't done anything since to make anyone doubt it.
Don't let him influence you or imagine that his nonsense is what PAMPA is about - bitching about PAMPA is his sole connection with stunt.
Brett
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Welcome to PAMPA's world for the last 40 years, dealing with Peabody and his ilk - who ALSO heavily influenced the other problems we have had. He is also the primary spokesman for the attempt at creating and utterly phony "class warfare" nonsense, as you note. This was part of their attempt to divide and conquer, setting various people against each other.
Peabody is one of the people on the short list where you can assume almost anything he says is some sort of snide or cynical attempt to sow discord, character assasination, or cause some sort of a problem. And thus, should be ignored. He was handing out business cards where he proclaimed himself "Antichrist of Stunt" almost 30 years ago - and hasn't done anything since to make anyone doubt it.
Don't let him influence you or imagine that his nonsense is what PAMPA is about - bitching about PAMPA is his sole connection with stunt.
Brett
I've been active on this forum for about 5 years and lurking before that.
I have noticed that comments similar to mine have been directed to several individuals for the entire time....peabody among them....and to mark for his supercilious all knowing phd big stud books of comments....not directed to you Brett.
I'm not influenced by any of those jokers.....after flying Pattern for about 33 years.....I know a jackass when I see em'.
Mark....I'm glad to see you had the balls to delete your defeatist crappy comments!
And stick your stupid 'nice day' comment too.
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I've been active on this forum for about 5 years and lurking before that.
I have noticed that comments similar to mine have been directed to several individuals for the entire time....peabody among them....and to mark for his supercilious all knowing phd big stud books of comments....not directed to you Brett.
I'm not influenced by any of those jokers.....after flying Pattern for about 33 years.....I know a jackass when I see em'.
Mark....I'm glad to see you had the balls to delete your defeatist crappy comments!
And stick your stupid 'nice day' comment too.
It's exactly this kind of attitude which puts people off and reinforces the reason not to belong. BTW, I'm not a PhD. Just very knowledgeable and if that hurts your feelings oh well. If you've got any balls yourself you'll follow my lead.
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It's exactly this kind of attitude which puts people off and reinforces the reason not to belong. BTW, I'm not a PhD. Just very knowledgeable and if that hurts your feelings oh well. If you've got any balls yourself you'll follow my lead.
This is comical......you started all this with your big mouth....you are the one with the attitude and said all the comments that puts people off......and I'm not following you anywhere.
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I've been active on this forum for about 5 years and lurking before that.
I have noticed that comments similar to mine have been directed to several individuals for the entire time....peabody among them....and to mark for his supercilious all knowing phd big stud books of comments....not directed to you Brett.
I'm not influenced by any of those jokers.....after flying Pattern for about 33 years.....I know a jackass when I see em'.
People of good will can coexist, regardless of their experience level or areas of interest. A very, very few people have gone out of their way to try to set us at each other's throats, Peabody is the prototype. Of course, opinions may vary as to who these people are, but the *only* time I get upset with people is when they are trying to jerk somebody (me or someone else) around, so my list is pretty easy to determine (and remarkably short, given the 40+ years of flying stunt all across the country).
It is absolutely inevitable that some people will not agree, and it is absolutely inevitable that people will have differing interests. The range of skills around go from rank beginner to people on a very short list of "Best Ever* - not everything will be of interest to everyone, and not everything will even be understood by everyone. That is not a defect.
Arguments are not necessarily bad, without arguments, we would never learn anything - but there is arguing fairly, and arguing to cause trouble. Some people can't tell the difference, that is not a reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I also find the various terminology used by the anti-PAMPA types to be pretty offensive, "Joe Bellcrank" (only bad in certain contexts), and "bottom feeders" (bad all the time), "Elites" (also offensive). This sort of language was more-or-less invented by the people trying to divide PAMPA membership to drive to a desired, self-serving result.
One of the mistakes I think PAMPA has made (including me, when I was in the leadership) is overreacting to minor problems and allowing them to become Federal cases (in two cases, *literally* Federal cases). A lot of times, I think simply dismissing obviously self-serving or ego-based complaints would have served us a lot better than trying to both patiently and rationally address each one as if it were important. While at the same time, trying to keep down the controversy - which inadvertently also provided abundant cover for the people who were obviously out to cause trouble.
In my opinion, it was classic appeasement, with the usual effect -it merely emboldened the complainants and caused them to become more aggressive. It rewarded histrionics, which naturally escalated them, because it appeared to be working. This led to near-disaster on several occasions. If there was a real problem, then fine, we fix those all the time. Otherwise, just blow it off - they will still be out there again next July. You can't reward or encourage whining; there will be enough of that anyway.
Of course, this is with 20/20 hindsight, so it is useful only in trying to avoid the problem in the future. It may no longer be an issue, but worth learning a lesson from.
I think it is well worth joining PAMPA, I find it useful for me, but it will not offend me greatly if someone chooses otherwise. But for sure don't let people like Rich Peabody influence that decision, he has *absolutely nothing to do with it* anyway.
Brett
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I'm going to join in the morning, after the British car drive.
Sounds as if it's the start of contest season!
Chris...
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Oh wow, it was so easy I did it before the drive, alright!
Chris...
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The access to all of the back issues of Stunt News is worth the price of admission for me.
Tim
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The access to all of the back issues of Stunt News is worth the price of admission for me.
Tim
I have a confession to make. I was the one responsible for sending the results of our contests in to Pampa in the late 70's. It wasn't till I started going through those old issues that I realized what a poor job I did!
Ken
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At least some of the people who bitch are paying members. most of the people who bitch about these people are not members. If you dont have money in the game keep your mouth shut, no matter what side your on.
Steve
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Peabody is AIDS to control line
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I never realized things had gotten this bad with PAMPA. I am severely out of touch with the whole scene. I had quit flying several years ago and quit moderating soon after. It is really sad to see how bad things have gotten with C/L in general. I really used to enjoy flying.
"SAVE ALL THE PIECES"-Phil Brown
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I never realized things had gotten this bad with PAMPA. I am severely out of touch with the whole scene. I had quit flying several years ago and quit moderating soon after. It is really sad to see how bad things have gotten with C/L in general. I really used to enjoy flying.
"SAVE ALL THE PIECES"-Phil Brown
Oh, WOW! Talk about bringing out the lost and famous....I still refer to the bigger Honda sedans as "Ack-rods". I miss Phil's website of CL websites, too. H^^ Steve
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I never realized things had gotten this bad with PAMPA. I am severely out of touch with the whole scene. I had quit flying several years ago and quit moderating soon after. It is really sad to see how bad things have gotten with C/L in general. I really used to enjoy flying.
"SAVE ALL THE PIECES"-Phil Brown
I don't think things are as bad as the recent flood of negative posts would suggest. It is winter and we are either building or wishing we were and that makes us "grumpy old men" or bored young men. On the contrary, I see things getting better. Lots of new posters and lots of how do I get started threads. It may not ever be like the 60's again but we are a long way from being finished.
Ken