Author Topic: Is all castor oil the same (Read 10517 times)

rich gorrill · « **on:** February 12, 2016, 02:26:47 PM »

I have a few older engines that i think would run better on a fuel with a higher oil content than powermaster 10/22. I have found a place that sells 100% pure castor oil at a reasonable price. I was wondering does the normal fuel we use have regular old castor oil in it or is their something special added for our use.

Thanks,

Rich

P.S. I used the search function and found a calculator that tells you how much oil to add to get your final%.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2016, 02:28:17 PM »

I have heard that there is a difference between medicinal and degummed castor, with degummed being better. But I've also used medicinal castor as a fuel additive with no bad effects to my airplanes, so size your grain-o-salt accordingly.

rich gorrill · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2016, 02:40:52 PM »

Thanks Tim, B.T.W., the website is bulkapothecary.com.

Rich

Brian Hampton · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2016, 03:41:21 PM »

Merco instructions have always warned against using medicinal castor so take it or leave it on that one. All castor is degummed as part of the initial manufacturing process but essentially there are only two ways to get the oil out of the bean. The first is by pressing which is usually done twice with the second pressing being just the husks. The second and final means is by chemical extraction where this is kept seperate from the pressed (pure) oil but is often blended with pressed. Apparently the chemically extracted oil is what causes the white flakes in very cold weather. I've never seen flakes with Castrol M even after being in the freezer.

BillP · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2016, 04:49:35 PM »

Dad and I used to mix our own and got castor (and methanol) from the pharmacy but that was almost 60 yrs ago. We flew this brew in Fox engines for several years and no obvious problems. I still fly a Fox 35 from those days on a Super Clown that has at least a gallon or two of the stuff though it plus a gallon or two of Fox and Sig fuel...its still tight. RedMax fuel from the 1990s had the white flakes but other fuels didn't. They said it was the processing.

Brent Williams · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2016, 05:09:08 PM »

This is a good question. I burned through over a gallon of homebrew 1/2a fuel last year that used castor oil I sourced from the pharmacy at WalMart. No complaints.
I too, am curious about the properties of the Baker and Klotz castor vs pharmaceutical grade castor.

Jim Kraft · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2016, 05:29:32 PM »

As far as I know Bakers AA degumed castor is engine grade. There are others with additives to make them mix better with gasoline. Both Klotz and Castrol have their own. I do not know how much difference there is between them as far as lube goes or if they are infact Bakers AA. Since I run and fly a lot of old engines, I buy it by the gallon from Sig.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2016, 06:57:13 PM »

I took a quick look at what's available on the motorcycle market, and all of the stuff sold as "castor" is really castor with additives, and it costs several times more than the plain ol' castor from the bulk apothecary place.

I'd be vastly tempted to just try some of that stuff out, myself.

Motorman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2016, 07:16:12 PM »

Stay away from castor that's made for motorcycles and go karts. It is thinned out and has additives that may or may not mix well with other oils. I had a bunch of different oils laying around and mixed up some batches just to break in Fox 35s and some of the mixes ended up as useless goop.

MM

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2016, 07:30:16 PM »

I strongly recommend using Bakers AA. It's refined for engine usage and high heat without creating gummy residues and ash!

I buy it from SIG. No hazmat to worry about either.

Randy Cuberly

Steve Hines · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2016, 08:40:27 PM »

AA is also called pale pressed. Don't think bakers has been in business for a long time. I get my castor rich's brew a lot less than SIG. I use to get it from where I worked for 1.46 a gallon. AA is better than degummed, the acid an moisture is less. I could still get blown castor for a really good price, but I can't find out what the difference is.

Steve

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2016, 08:48:27 PM »

I'm sure the answer is "No, all castor oil is not the same". However, if I was mixing fuel with say, 17% Klotz and 5% castor, I'd use whatever castor I could get, at least generic or medicinal types. Dunno about the motorcycle/Kart type oil, but I think one of those would be Klotz "Benol", which I'd use in a heartbeat. The reason I'd use any castor in small doses is that Klotz has considerable detergent action and should keep the engine clean. Would I run straight medicinal castor, or 20% medicinal castor with 5% Klotz? No, probably not, at least without some testing on an inexpensive engine. Especially on a new engine of any sort.

Many decades ago, I bought a can of castor from the motorcycle shop...Blendzall. It smelled of Nitro Benzine, which we know makes it mix better with gasoline and nitromethane. Also reduces pre-ignition, if that's a concern. I think it might help with straight (no nitro) alcohol fuel, IF you are pushing the compression ratio to the max for F2A or F1C. But then you can't get Nitro Benzine anymore, so if you can get Blendzall, it will have something else in it. FWIW, the plastic bottle I put the Blendzall in has collapsed in volume from (apparently) the NB seeping through the pores of the plastic bottle/lid/seal. No leakage is apparent, anyway.

Steve

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2016, 09:52:23 PM »

Quote from: Steve Hines on February 12, 2016, 08:40:27 PM

AA is also called pale pressed. Don't think bakers has been in business for a long time. I get my castor rich's brew a lot less than SIG. I use to get it from where I worked for 1.46 a gallon. AA is better than degummed, the acid an moisture is less. I could still get blown castor for a really good price, but I can't find out what the difference is.

Steve

You maybe right about Bakers Steve. I just looked at the last two gallon Jugs I got from SIG and they say SIG AA Castor Oil. At any rate I like dealing with SIG they give good service and are always prompt in shipment!

Randy Cuberly

Daniel_Munro · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2016, 02:45:06 AM »

Klotz Benol Racing Castor oil. In my humble opinion is the best option available these days. I was running Catrol Super M in the boys Fox 35 and another junior members OS 19. Neither engine was running very well. Switched back to Benol and hey presto they are back to normal. It's de-gummed so not too messy, smells wonderful and is not a bad price.

Dallas Hanna · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2016, 03:52:53 AM »

Quote from: Daniel_Munro on February 13, 2016, 02:45:06 AM

Klotz Benol Racing Castor oil. In my humble opinion is the best option available these days. I was running Catrol Super M in the boys Fox 35 and another junior members OS 19. Neither engine was running very well. Switched back to Benol and hey presto they are back to normal. It's de-gummed so not too messy, smells wonderful and is not a bad price.

Not sure on Castrol Super M Daniel but straight Castrol M is Castor based oil specifically for methanol based fuel. It is off the market now but some of us still have a small supply. Have been using it for many years (50!) and it hadn't changed in reliability. However there were some Synthetic Racing M etc from Shell and maybe another company and close examination seemed to suggest that it mixed with gasoline rather than methanol even though it "seemed" to mix. This oil gave all sorts of running/plug problems. Back in the 70s SHELL had an M which worked the same as Castrol M/Castor oil but had an annoying odor when used.

Also here in OZ someone was marketing a Castor Lite which was also junk and destroyed a number of engines.

HH

pipemakermike · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2016, 04:07:16 AM »

In the UK some 4+ years ago we believe that the castor used in commercial fuel and available from our suppliers had some sort of fine, often red, threads in it and these contributed to some strangness and difficulty in running the engines. Filters would get blocked up and engines that had previously run perfectly would start acting up. It is likely that this was the reason that my previously well sorted ST51's were now really difficult to get a reliable run from. I had tried everything - different plugs, tank, engines, engine bearings, props but in the end with no solution found I gave up and went back to playing mandolin and bagpipes.
I am just about to start again and have made a really fine fuel filter fitted to a large funnel so that I can filter the fuel into my quart flight box fuel bottle. I will be starting where I left off with my Mo-Best and a supertigre 51. I have already run both the tank that I used and the LA46 fitted to my TEOSAWKI with no sign of the previous problem. I was using the special fuel filter funnel mentioned above and shown below. Now I plan to try them both in the Mo-Best and, if the problems return, I will have localised the problem to the model and if they don't I will be sure that it was the fine threads contaminating the fuel.

Lauri Malila · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2016, 01:45:38 PM »

Hi Mike!
Nice filter you got. But if it turns out to be the fuel that's causing your grief, I recommend toget rid of the bad fuel and find some fresh ingredients, maybe from another source.
Many years ago we also found the flake, or threads in our fuel, propably originating from castor oil.
We found out that good filtering helped only for a little while and those flakes continued to appear even in my 1 litre fueling bottle.

Lauri

George · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2016, 04:00:54 PM »

Quote from: Steve Hines on February 12, 2016, 08:40:27 PM

AA is also called pale pressed. Don't think bakers has been in business for a long time. I get my castor rich's brew a lot less than SIG. I use to get it from where I worked for 1.46 a gallon. AA is better than degummed, the acid an moisture is less. I could still get blown castor for a really good price, but I can't find out what the difference is.

Steve

Steve, I believe the Bakers company has been around since the late nineteen thirties. You may also find that SIG's castor is Bakers AA.

George

Steve Hines · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2016, 10:45:49 PM »

George I could wrong, SIG no longer says baker on it just AA. I think Vertellus bought baker. I know castor oil is no longer made in the USA. You can get castor from Balk Apothecary for 16.67 a gallon. If you look at the msda sheet it look like AA USP.

You can look it up online.

Steve

pipemakermike · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2016, 04:57:10 AM »

Quote from: Lauri Malila on February 13, 2016, 01:45:38 PM

Hi Mike!
I recommend toget rid of the bad fuel and find some fresh ingredients, maybe from another source.
Lauri

Hi Lauri
Yes I have already bought a stock of methnol and castor and plan to use up the old fuel in some RC models.

dave siegler · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2016, 06:28:46 AM »

What about this stuff?

http://www.blendzall.com/

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2016, 07:41:06 AM »

I have been under the impression that the term "bakers AA grade" meant that the oil was refined to a purity suitable for baking food products. Look in the baking department of the grocery store and you will find small bottles of castor oil similar to the medicinal kind in the drug department. I have used both in a pinch with no problems but like alot of guys use mainly SIG castor. My older brother brought me a 5 gallon jug from his work one time, as it is used in formulating plastics and foam also. I was using that stuff to make mole repellent. I think the purity level determines what grade most of it is. Remember that the material at the center of the castor bean is what the poison ricin comes from. If you use castor enough in an engine with a fuel filter, eventually you will find a collection of fibers in the fuel filter. This is a natural extrusion from the oil passing through the small openings and making the fibers. The castor bean is from the same family as the soy bean and you can make anything from a hamburger to a sweater from soy beans! This has all been discussed before a couple of time in the ten years this site has been around and a good search will turn up more information.
HAPPY VALENTINES DAY!
Dan McEntee

Skip Chernoff · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2016, 10:29:15 PM »

I've been mixing my own fuels for my model airplanes for the last 40 years. I like Klotz Castor and Blendzall equally well. When I couldn't get them I used medicinal castor and it seemed to work ok. I didn't have any problems that I could see. One thing though.... I always like to use some Klotz Techniplate Synthetic mixed in with the castor oil. Typically I use 28% oil in my plain bearing engines and 22% oil in my ball bearing engines. In 1/2A engines I use 20% oil mixed 50% castor 50% synthetic.

For those who wish to mix their own fuel I found a company called Torco selling Nitro on Ebay at very reasonable prices. I buy my Alky from a local privately owned auto parts store that races dirt cars. They always have fuel on hand.....PhillySkip

Daniel_Munro · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2016, 01:42:36 AM »

Quote from: Dallas Hanna on February 13, 2016, 03:52:53 AM

Not sure on Castrol Super M Daniel but straight Castrol M is Castor based oil specifically for methanol based fuel. It is off the market now but some of us still have a small supply. Have been using it for many years (50!) and it hadn't changed in reliability. However there were some Synthetic Racing M etc from Shell and maybe another company and close examination seemed to suggest that it mixed with gasoline rather than methanol even though it "seemed" to mix. This oil gave all sorts of running/plug problems. Back in the 70s SHELL had an M which worked the same as Castrol M/Castor oil but had an annoying odor when used.

Also here in OZ someone was marketing a Castor Lite which was also junk and destroyed a number of engines.

HH

Castrol M is what I meant. I cannot get a my Fox 35 to go great on it. Switch back to Benol and it goes like it should. Same with one of our junior members OS .19 mkiii.

Skip Chernoff · « **Reply #24 on:** July 05, 2016, 12:26:50 PM »

You can't beat Klotz Beanoil or Blendzall's castor. It's the real deal.....PhillySkip