Iron on on the front row?

[Guy Markham]

Sorry Floyd, but that is a ridiculously ignorant and biased way to look at the level of artistry on display.
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So much for  Brotherly love from a fellow stunt flier   

[fred cesquim]

So, I guess all front row models are  chosen only on the basis of the complexity and color-count of the paint.  Never mind that the plane looks nothing resembling a real plane;  such as, having a lump in top of the fuselage meant to represent some sort of cockpit, even covered in opaque paint.

as far as i know, resemblance with real planes are for scale competition, F2B are meant to look pretty and well executed

[Brett Buck]

So, I guess all front row models are  chosen only on the basis of the complexity and color-count of the paint.  Never mind that the plane looks nothing resembling a real plane;  such as, having a lump in top of the fuselage meant to represent some sort of cockpit, even covered in opaque paint.

      I note that the Concours de'Elegance is voted on *by the pilots*, they liked it even though there were a lot of other magnificent models shown.  That's 68 of the most knowledgable modelers in the world, all of whom  - unlike you - know how hard it is to achieve something like this. So, again, your opinion is in the extreme minority. 

     When did you become so dyspeptic and negative? Didn't used to be.  Why is it necessary for you to denigrate other modelers, particularly when you haven't and aren't doing anything at all? And bear in mind, I have seen *your* airplanes, as far as I know, no one every dissed you for them.

      Brett
     
   

[Ted Fancher]

Alas, sorry to see some negativity with respect to the appearance and appraisal of a beautifully "unique" presentation of a beautiful and cleverly different approach to classic craftsmanship...combined with capable performance!  Although for much of my young and sort of adult life I spent going to battle with the airman-ship of the event, it was never more "fly'n" the pattern then producing a unique and attractive bit of airman-ship with which to do so that kept me at it for so long.  I've admired literally dozens of magnificent pieces of aerial artistry  over many, many years of my life and, more than the outcome of the many such events the things that most stick with me are the craftsmanship and artistry of those that not only flew magnificently but did so with pieces of unique aircraft in the more or less the shape of big airplanes such as I flew to feed myself and my family.  On my den walls and in my...now gathering dust.."shop"..are ships I've built over the years for my own enjoyment are models of "other modelers ships" I felt compelled to build not for competitive purposes so much as to remind me of the unique and magnificent aircraft...like Uncle Jimby's, Nats  front line winner that were unique and beautiful and drove me to build and compete with ships that not only performed well but brought attention to the efforts utilized to prepare them for the task.

Alas, I hope that unique attraction and originality never disappears from...at least...the United States of America's Precision Aerobatics kingdom.

Just one P.A. pilot's opinion.

Ted

[Brett Buck]

I felt compelled to build not for competitive purposes so much as to remind me of the unique and magnificent aircraft...like Uncle Jimby's, Nats  front line winner that were unique and beautiful and drove me to build and compete with ships that not only performed well but brought attention to the efforts utilized to prepare them for the task.

    This one is something else! As mentioned above, I knew as soon as they opened the door that it was a slam-dunk for concours, there were 60-ish airplanes out there, but there was a crowd around Jims.

     Brett

[Steve Dwyer]

Wow Floyd I think if you had simply said you miss the old school way, e.g. early Windy U. days of spending hours creating a beautiful "knock out" cockpit you might have drawn less criticism to your point. You ruffled some feathers here for sure.

[Ken Culbertson]

I am one of only two that I know of around here that bothers with cockpits and both of us enjoy doing it.  What is wrong with a lump on the fuselage if making an interior isn't fun for you.  Should it factor into the appearance points?  Sure but not ever as a make or break thing for the judges.  Nowhere in the current rules is there any mention of scale like appearance.  With AI finding its way into real airplanes, even the lump on the fuselage might be unnecessary weight.
I don't even have a problem with the hundreds of hours that some put into rubbing out to get that extra point or two.  If you are at the top, that is the margin of victory in a lot of contests.  Would using that time for practice be a better use of the time?  Maybe.  But why criticize anyone for doing it the way they like under the rules?  It's a HOBBY for God's sake.

Ken

[FLOYD CARTER]

I guess that describes me pretty well: "ignorant and ridiculous".  Can you think of other names to call me?  Come on, you can do it.

At least, I have a keen eye for elegance.

[Howard Rush]

I have a painted-on canopy, but it has cool color-shifting paint for equivalent spectator entertainment.

One year at the Nats there were a half dozen or so really nice planes.  Kaz Minato’s was the only one with cockpit detail, so the judges gave him one more point than the others. Those of us on the second row agreed with that decision.

[Brett Buck]

I guess that describes me pretty well: "ignorant and ridiculous".  Can you think of other names to call me?  Come on, you can do it.

At least, I have a keen eye for elegance.

   You are the one who started out making repeated negative and denigrating comments over something you haven't seen, will likely never see, nor have any idea how to accomplish yourself.

    You started it, completely unnecessarily and completely out of the blue - and now you are whining about the consequences?   You are not the aggrieved party here, so stop playing the victim.

       Brett

[Steve Helmick]

Jimby's stuff is always artistic, immaculate, and humorous. I still really like Bob Palmer-ish models that just look like model airplanes.  Steve

[John Skukalek]

I always enjoy hearing different preferences and perspectives. It's interesting and I learn from it.  Wish we could do it without the criticizing part.

[Brett Buck]

I always enjoy hearing different preferences and perspectives. It's interesting and I learn from it.  Wish we could do it without the criticizing part.

   Steve giving a great example of a differing opinion without bashing anyone.

    Brett

p.s. I used to work on the same program at Lockheed with Floyd, he was generally known as a good guy, his current reactions are very out-of-character negative. Also - the airplane in question is currently sitting on my bed waiting for Jim to come by and pick it up.

[Trostle]

Maybe not pertinent to all of this, but I will mention it anyway.

Some time ago, Charlie Reeves and I did the appearance judging at the Nats.  After the alignment of the airplanes, there were like 6 airplanes in the 19 point row.  (No 20 point airplanes that year in our opinion.)  When we looked at the alignment, of those 6 airplanes, 5 of them had painted on canopies.  The realization of that was a surprise to both of us.  Each of those airplanes deserved to be where they were.  Nothing was changed.   Things happen.

Keith

[Brett Buck]

Maybe not pertinent to all of this, but I will mention it anyway.

Some time ago, Charlie Reeves and I did the appearance judging at the Nats.  After the alignment of the airplanes, there were like 6 airplanes in the 19 point row.  (No 20 point airplanes that year in our opinion.)  When we looked at the alignment, of those 6 airplanes, 5 of them had painted on canopies.  The realization of that was a surprise to both of us.  Each of those airplanes deserved to be where they were.  Nothing was changed.   Things happen.

     This is the one thing that separates appearance judging from flight judging - there are absolutely no specifications, no limits, no constraints, it's a total freeform exercise allowing for unlimited creativity and range of possibilities. And as noted here, there are always differing opinions, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you are willing to respect other peoples efforts.   Direspecting the effort (and by extension, disrespecting the other pilots, the judges, and of course the builder) is what will set everyone off.

    Brett

[Doug Moon]

So, I guess all front row models are  chosen only on the basis of the complexity and color-count of the paint.  Never mind that the plane looks nothing resembling a real plane;  such as, having a lump in top of the fuselage meant to represent some sort of cockpit, even covered in opaque paint.

I was told once that appearance judging is based on the "Execution of the attempt" If you attempt a build and the execution if flawless than you get maximum points. What it is and the colors have no bearing. I was told that in 1998 and still follow it today. As far as not looking like a real plane, do a search or exotic planes and tell me that doesn't look like a real plane compared to some of the crazy stuff out there that actually carries people around.

Well done Jim Aaron...golf clap!!!

[RC Storick]

The plane that won was the right airplane.