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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Keith Renecle on December 02, 2016, 08:49:18 AM
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I found this in a May 1961 Aeromodeller magazine, It is one of Jurij Sirotkin's designs that he flew to 8th place in the 1960 world champs. What I found really interesting is that he was running an 11 x 4 prop on a McCoy 35, when the standard prop for a .35 was a 10 x 6. Maybe this fine pitch prop thing started earlier than the modern stunt era? It is also a 57" model that weight 46 oz. with a wing area of 600 sq. inches. The fuselage is also rather unusual with quite a thick airfoil for that time. I always loved his Spacehound but I found this to be rather interesting.
Keith R
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Would probably have flown better with a bit of dihedral.
Al
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Looks like a Smoothyski to me.
Note the use of an 11-4 prop on a McCoy 35 in 1960. Some forward thinking there.
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Looks like a Smoothyski to me.
Note the use of an 11-4 prop on a McCoy 35 in 1960. Some forward thinking there.
You'd like it better with a 10-6, I think. And about a foot longer!
Brett
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Seems like he enjoyed that curved under-belly as well if you look at the Spacehound. Again, the plans show a fine pitch prop, this time a 10 x 4.
Keith R
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That short-coupling is a characteristic of some 1950's thinking. Examples: All American, Smoothie, Thunderbird.
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I sort of think the low pitch props reflected the common Soviet era engines of the time which were adapted from 5cc (.29) speed engines like the MVVS and Kometa 5 which were copies of the ST .29 rear intake engine. The manufacturers included a plastic prop with each new engine (+ wrench, fuel line etc- since I doubt there were many hobby shops around). This prop is about a 10-4 I'd judge. The Kometas I have like one speed-full, so hence the flat prop. I doubt the McCoy here lasted very long run that way. Then again it may have been the earlier racing version rather than a red head. I've read he also used a balloon tank.
Dave
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Off topic, but the last time I saw Sirotkin was about 1989 at an airshow in Everett, Washington.
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I think Bob Baron made the earliest mention of the flat pitch prop that I am aware of. I think it was the early version of his Humbug that is classic legal that he ran a combat ST.35 and a 10-4 prop on. I think it was a M.A.N article on that airplane that I read that in, and he went into detail about the effect. Not as far back as 1961 but back that-a-way. I'll have to dig that one out and re-read again.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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Seems like he enjoyed that curved under-belly as well if you look at the Spacehound. Again, the plans show a fine pitch prop, this time a 10 x 4.
Keith R
what a small world
from a german cl Forum, one masterbuilder from Austria has his elec. Moskwa ready for the paintjob.
see pics below.
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1695573&d=1479484668
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1702057&d=1480607199&thumb=1
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php/598748-Bau-einer-Moskwa-50-Jahre-später
Peter
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I think Bob Baron made the earliest mention of the flat pitch prop that I am aware of. I think it was the early version of his Humbug that is classic legal that he ran a combat ST.35 and a 10-4 prop on. I think it was a M.A.N article on that airplane that I read that in, and he went into detail about the effect. Not as far back as 1961 but back that-a-way. I'll have to dig that one out and re-read again.
Wild Bill before that, as usual, in the mid-50's. I am sure that is where Baron got the idea, since he and Bill where long-time collaborators. Two more diverse personalities could not be imagined!
The problem was the same then as it was now, yes, you could get it to spin fast enough to attain an acceptable flying speed, but it was very dead in the maneuvers. That didn't really get solved until the late 70's with ABC and schneurle engines.
Brett
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Have a look at the links Peter posted above. Builder Rudi T. lives in rural Austria a few hours east of Munich. Despite the caption on Rudi's build thread he has built a Space Hound, not a Moskova. Whatever, his building techniques are awesome. He molded a fiberglass cowl ("snout" in German, very literal language) from a foam core, built his own hollow CF landing gear, and a unique line guide slider buried in a hollowed out tip. The site is in German but there is a translator button. And my guess is his local flying field is not a Walmart parking lot. The most beautiful CL field I have ever seen was in that region. No surprise.
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This german Magazine from 1964 includes full Story about the Sirotkin Moskwa.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Hobby-Zeitschrift-Nr-12-64-Wissen-Technik-Unterhaltung-/361468590519?hash=item542934f9b7:g:MJAAAOSwHaBWl9Wd
Peter
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Can't say much about that fuselage, but the wing and tail would have made a nice Spitfire.
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Have a look at the links Peter posted above. Builder Rudi T. lives in rural Austria a few hours east of Munich. Despite the caption on Rudi's build thread he has built a Space Hound, not a Moskova. Whatever, his building techniques are awesome. He molded a fiberglass cowl ("snout" in German, very literal language) from a foam core, built his own hollow CF landing gear, and a unique line guide slider buried in a hollowed out tip. The site is in German but there is a translator button. And my guess is his local flying field is not a Walmart parking lot. The most beautiful CL field I have ever seen was in that region. No surprise.
That does have some different construction techniques. I couldn't find the translator button. Old I guess. ???
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Pics from 1964
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The 1964 Moskwa is the younger (better) brother of the 1961 Moskwa
.....Progress ,Evolution .... you Name it.
Why they call and name it Spacehound ? for sure off topic .
Peter
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Hmm, need to eat some crow about the model name. Apparently an evolution of a design using same name. Wonder if the odd fuselage shape has to do with "lifting body" designs in full size theoretical spacecraft?
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It is perhaps interesting to note that the prop designated on the drawing (250/120) works out to ~10x5.
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Urgh .
(http://www.rc-network.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1695574&d=1479484668)
Its Electric .
Cant he find a MVVS 5.6 or something . :-\ S?P H^^
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what you see is the 107% enlarged Version (span 150cm) of the Spacehound or Moskwa (Mark 2 ?) you Name it.
From the beginning ,this one is going electric, Rudi wrote in an nother post.
His RSM Kit will going ic I strongly believe.
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1703604&d=1480779933&thumb=1
He molded a carbon cowl , snoutze (in german--Schnautze) because the Glasfiber one came out to heavy.
The Canopy, Stickers, are ....custom made..... too.
Peter
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In the "Space Hound" era the FAI pattern accented round maneuvers. It is possible that Sirotkin used the sweeping under belly to conform to this. Straight lines that we see today will help the illusion of better square maneuvers.
I have always thought that the "Space Hound" was a beautiful airplane and have been tempted to build one many times. Like many, I assume, I never knew that it was was actually called "Moskwa" I hope that someone can add to the history of the name.
I hope Yuri is still with us and can tell us the history. Perhaps someone who knew him tell us more.
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Dave Day (I think his website is still accessible somewhere) once built a Thunderbird/Spacehound hybrid called, I believe, "Spacebird". I seem to recall that he did quite well with it.
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I think Bob Baron made the earliest mention of the flat pitch prop that I am aware of. I think it was the early version of his Humbug that is classic legal that he ran a combat ST.35 and a 10-4 prop on. I think it was a M.A.N article on that airplane that I read that in, and he went into detail about the effect. Not as far back as 1961 but back that-a-way. I'll have to dig that one out and re-read again.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
Bob Barron ran the Super Tigre G-21 .35 (ball bearing) combat engine as opposed to the plain bearing Super Tigre .35 combat.
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A bit of Fred Drift , thought intresting , so here .
(http://www.marinaru.ro/forum/planuri/Planuri/zbor-captiv/F2B-Acrobatie,%20Trainere,%20Semimachete/Aleksandr-Listopad-7cc.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/4/5/9/8/2/a5311289-59-Listopad_1977.jpg)
(http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/files/aleksandr_listopad_248.jpg)
from http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?printertopic=1&t=11879&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&finish_rel=-10000
the Drg comes up bigger there or from google pics ? .
(http://s018.radikal.ru/i515/1608/6a/bc12065a3092.jpg)
(https://dev.rcopen.com/files/4ece509050790241596268da)
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A bit of Fred Drift , thought intresting , so here .
...
the Drg comes up bigger there or from google pics ? .
This site, or your post, displays the drawing small. It is bigger if you save it, or select to view the image in your browser.
I like the look.
I also like the look of this:
(http://stunthanger.com/smf/as-time-goes-bye/found-some-photos/?action=dlattach;attach=89968;image)
Caption says: Yuri Sirotkin (USSR) 1966 monowheel
Oh. Found another view of the Sirotkin Monowheel:
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Just to let you know,
the finishing is finished and Rudi is waiting for spring and his "Moskwa" maiden flight.
Rudi changed his from wing into fuse mounted landing gear.
The wooden prop is only for pic.
http://www.rc-network.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1707766&d=1481729758&thumb=1
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I loved the complex paint and detail markings of the Russian models of the era. I love red, their use of it in TR, Speed, Stunt and their acro airplanes always seemed to work.
Chris...
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Hi Peter,
Thanks for posting Rudi's model! He is a great builder for sure. Simple but elegant colour scheme too.
Keith R
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(http://s017.radikal.ru/i402/1608/ec/6d80a444a17b.png)
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(http://s019.radikal.ru/i624/1608/5e/be697ca242fb.png)
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Probly have the N.K.V.D. after us now . %^@
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i623/1609/6b/784437ec81ab.jpg)
presumeably This : ?
(http://s020.radikal.ru/i701/1601/2f/5a91aec1962e.jpg)
(http://s020.radikal.ru/i707/1601/b9/ff2b2a1b9c0e.jpg)
(http://s013.radikal.ru/i323/1601/76/99aecf855218.jpg)
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Found a Russian site , looking on google pics , via ' Bill Werwage Thunderbolt ' and Site .
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i637/1609/fa/1696ceaded08.jpg)
(http://s013.radikal.ru/i322/1607/b7/09f54242596a.png)
Not the Salt Mines ! %^@
(http://s50.radikal.ru/i128/1607/72/05c8c8c356d4.jpg)
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Probly the Russian Plan for the ' Spacehound " that Aeromodelor magazine purloined & copied ! . %^@
(https://dev.rcopen.com/files/57b25b4c50790241591e998b)
(https://dev.rcopen.com/files/57b25b2950790241591e9605)
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For the KA 10 freaks m some nose detail . Like a dalesman !
(http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20355.0;attach=76689;image)
from a earlyer fred on KA 10 than the later one . H^^
http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/anatoly-kolsenikov's-ka-10/
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Above is the KA-8 that took the world title...
The year is 1986 and the place is Pecs, Hungary