Berkley Lancer plans

[bob whitney]

.i have a set of Berkley profile I Beam Lancer plans. they show adding a piece of trailing edge stock  1 in wide by 2 in long on the bottom trailing edge  of the inboard wing about half way from fuse to tip ,they dont say why
  any ideas??

[Steve Berry]

Looking at the plans, it calls out a fixed aileron flap right wing only. Basically, it's a built-in trim tab.

Stevehttp://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/657fa90a572b0/Lancer_CL_oz9317.pdf

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[Dan McEntee]

Looking at the plans, it calls out a fixed aileron flap right wing only. Basically, it's a built-in trim tab.

Stevehttp://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/657fa90a572b0/Lancer_CL_oz9317.pdf

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      That's interesting !! Bob Nelson at SIG produced a replica kit of the airplane and SIG sold them, I don't know what their kit looks like. I have one but never opened it. It must have had some natural tendency to fly outboard wing high and needed that. Cheapest way to deal with it at the time I guess.

  HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!
    Dan McEntee

[bob whitney]

i am sorry it is on the outboard side

[Dennis Toth]

Bob,
If it is on the outboard wing my guess is they have a lot of tip weight and where trying to get the ship to have level wings in normal heights. The wag acts like a tap but does not add area and being on the bottom is concealed from sight. Could also be that the original had a twist in the wing and this is what the designer did to correct and somehow got included in the kit?

Best,   DennisT 

[Dave_Trible]

Given the type of construction and the method of building I'd say it had a high probability of ending up warped.  I'd then suppose this trim tab was standard to correct each airplane as necessary .  If I were building it I'd just do as the plans say.....usually best practice anyway. 

Dave

[944_Jim]

I'm not familiar with this kit beyond seeing the completed model picture. I've often wondered if the rib construction method is of any value beyond saving wood. Given how long planes last at the end of my lines, I'd expect this plane to have the 1/2 life of an ice cube in summertime Mississippi.

Are there any other common models employing this way of making ribs? I'm cheap...that's why I'm asking.

[Dave_Trible]

I'm not familiar with this kit beyond seeing the completed model picture. I've often wondered if the rib construction method is of any value beyond saving wood. Given how long planes last at the end of my lines, I'd expect this plane to have the 1/2 life of an ice cube in summertime Mississippi.

Are there any other common models employing this way of making ribs? I'm cheap...that's why I'm asking.

This is a version of 'I' beam wing construction.  Many famous stunt airplanes of the past were built this way and is actually my favorite even though I haven't used it much with 'big block' piped engines.  If I could re enforce the spars enough......maybe in the future.   A couple of my classics are I beams including my fav Neptune and the new Art Pawlowski Atom I'm finishing.  Very popular in the mid 50' to early 60s.  Bill Werwage had the Ares,  Juno and USA 1 in I beam.   They are cheaper and usually lighter to build but intimidate some builders.  Actually once you have one under your belt it's no big deal to build.

Dave

[jfv]

I built one with slightly modified "I" beam wing construction and redesigned fuse construction.  Originally, I did not include the trim tab and even though the wing is straight, it did fly with the outboard wing high on its maiden flight.  I put on an aluminum trim tab and all is well.  Flies great by the way.  If you are going to power it with a combat 35, I would recommend shortening the nose.

[EricV]

Neat Bob! Looks like it would fly better than a Ringmaster, with a proper size tail and all, only not as crash forgiving...

Not sure what you are planning for finish, but I imagine it would need a stressed skin covering like silkspan to maintain proper rigidity... I'm thinking plastic film could be a mistake with that type wing or you might need an even bigger tab...

EricV

[Dan McEntee]

   Notice that the plan is calling for it to be on the outboard wing, and deflected UP a specific amount (3/16") and is called a "Fixed Aileron Tab, right wing only" . It looks like it is something that was engineered into the design. It could be cut in after the wing is built covered and painted, or as already mentioned, and aluminum tab installed to do the job. Definitely unusual and something I had never seen before in all the plans I have ecer looked at.
  Type at you later, and HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
    Dan McEntee

[jfv]

I covered mine with polyspan covered with SLC film.  Pancaked it in once when the fuel tubing came off the pacifier while doing overhead eights.  No damage!  I would say sufficiently strong, BUT the design surely will not take a hit like the new combat planes.

[Ty Marcucci]

I'm not positive, but wasn't this designed by Art Pawloski, Same cat did the Lunar and Atom, both I beam stunt ships from the era..not unusual for guys to enter stunt and combat at the same meet.  That wing may well have come from one of his stunt machines.

[Dave_Trible]

It's a little hard for me to understand why they would intentionally build a a trim that makes no sense to the overall flying characteristics of the airplane....EXCEPT!  This was to be a combat plane-no landing gear and always hand launched.  This tab would counteract any tendency for the airplane to roll "in" during launch which it might have until it built up speed or if launched up wind and simply not done well........


Dave

[don boka]

The "Lancer is Art Pawloski's combat plane of the day, the later 50's. The "I beam or "Dailey" wing is the "Secret" wing construction of the time of some members of the Detroit Strathmore Model Airplane Club in the 50"s. It is derived from a 30's free flight structure by a Mr. Dailey. Sorry but I don''t remember his first name.
 Fuel tanks had two vents facing forward into the prop air.
 Covering was colored "Jap tissue" with 8-10 coats of nitrate and butyrate dope. After a few warped wings a rear spar, like 1/4 by 1/2 hard balsa was added  Art probably added the "trim tab" after the first flight! The combat planes were kinda' light weight around 18 oz. Power was the Engine of the day, Fox 35! A bit of port modifying and compresision change made the Powermist fuel with a bit of added nitromethane and oil made things run well. I do not remember the props used. The stunters used Y&O 10/5 props.
Art was rarely beat in Junior and Senior Stunt at the Nationals and local meets in the fifties. The Atom stunter being one of his designs which was published years ago in MAN in which I was involved. Fliers like Jim Ebejer with Neptune I and II in Senior Stunt and Rolland McDonald in Open Stunt were names to be reckoned with.
PS. Rolland's name sure sounds familiar!
Don Boka AMA 7219.