Interesting B-52 info

[Gary Dowler]

The company I work for just announced that we got the contract to refit the Air Force’s remaining 77 B-52H’s with carbon brakes. The Air Force announced that they intend to keep the B-52’s flying into the 2050’s!!!  Given that the last B-52 was delivered in 1962, this will make any surviving aircraft 90 years old!

I don’t think that was ever envisioned when they were designed.

Gary

[Avaiojet]

The company I work for just announced that we got the contract to refit the Air Force’s remaining 77 B-52H’s with carbon brakes. The Air Force announced that they intend to keep the B-52’s flying into the 2050’s!!!  Given that the last B-52 was delivered in 1962, this will make any surviving aircraft 90 years old!

I don’t think that was ever envisioned when they were designed.

Gary

Good thing the're not used to carry passengers.

Where they "rebuilt" somewhere along the way?

[Paul Walker]

I can assure you that life of that nature was never considered when it was designed. In fact, structural life issues were not considered either in the original design.

I am assuming as part of their life extension programs, a complete life analysis was done to be sure they could last that long. That is possible because of the nature of the way they are flown. Takeoff, cruise for a long time, land. Not terribly stressful on many structural parts.

They could easily last that long if never used hard.

[Steve_Pollock]

 ... and new paint, too!

[Dan McEntee]

   Some years ago I had read where as they have been taking airframes off line and out of service, they have been rebuilding and stockpiling the engines and have a huge supply. I forget which brand and model of engine they use, but they are designed for the mission and designed for long hours of use and longevity in general. Avionics I'm sure have been upgraded several times through the years as have all the other systems. For the mission it is intended for, I think it's the best thing out there. I think the only times that the airframes may have been really stressed is during the VietNam era, where they were hanging bombs on them anywhere they could fit a bomb rack!! I would be interested to know just what the highest load was a the worst mission one ever flew? There are videos out there of them when they dropped their loads on a bomb run and it just rains bombs for a long time, and I would sure hate not wanted to be on the receiving end of that onslaught! A modeling buddy of mine was an armorer in the Air Force then stationed on Guam. He absolutely HATED the airplane! He told me it would talk all day for one crew to load up one aircraft in all that tropical heat and humidity, and then in a few seconds it was all undone! I am a BUFF lover though, great airplane!
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Paul Wescott]

... and new paint, too!

That “Pan Am” B-52 is a photoshopped fake.  The base (original) photo is a B-52 painted white when NASA owned it.  NASA bought it from the Air Force, painted it NASA white, then returned it to the Air Force when they realized they weren’t going to need it.  Some jokester photoshopped the Pan Am logo and name onto the photo.

https://www.air-and-space.com/B-52%2021st%20Century.htm

Now you see it (pic #1)
Now you don’t (pic #2)

Paul W.

[Ken Culbertson]

....He told me it would talk all day for one crew to load up one aircraft in all that tropical heat and humidity, and then in a few seconds it was all undone!....

I shared his experience only on F-4's 5's and F-111's.  Same bombs, same all day, just more racks.  Got to watch a B-52 drop a full load at the Nellis range once.
2 miles away and the ground shook like an earthquake.  Then our two F-111's dropped their 44 bombs - anticlimactic is an understatement. 

Ken

[GallopingGhostler]

Good thing they're not used to carry passengers. Where they "rebuilt" somewhere along the way?

I think some of the work is done at Tinker AFB in Oklahoma City. How not to fly was demonstrated by Lt.Col. Bud Holland, who crashed one in 1994 by exceeding published flight envelope limits.

https://washingtonourhome.com/remembering-bud-holland-he-flew-b-52s/

I thought it interesting that the B-52 did not use ailerons, instead had spoilers similar to some sailplanes.

Never got to fly in one of those, closest I came was honor graduate of the Army's UH-1H Helicopter Repair Course at Ft. Rucker, AL in 1980. Spent 2 years with a Guard aviation unit, then upon reorganization transferred to the Band as a clarinet player. Did more flying with the Guard Band for 4 months before graduating college than I did 2 years with that aviation unit.

[Dan McEntee]

I think some of the work is done at Tinker AFB in Oklahoma City. How not to fly was demonstrated by Lt.Col. Bud Holland, who crashed one in 1994 by exceeding published flight envelope limits.

https://washingtonourhome.com/remembering-bud-holland-he-flew-b-52s/

I thought it interesting that the B-52 did not use ailerons, instead had spoilers similar to some sailplanes.

Never got to fly in one of those, closest I came was honor graduate of the Army's UH-1H Helicopter Repair Course at Ft. Rucker, AL in 1980. Spent 2 years with a Guard aviation unit, then upon reorganization transferred to the Band as a clarinet player. Did more flying with the Guard Band for 4 months before graduating college than I did 2 years with that aviation unit.

     As he goes into that left hand turn, you can see the exhaust plums pick up, and appears that he put up the power to try to keep the wing loaded, but you can also see the tail drop well below the nose, and I think it was pretty much a given at that point what was going to happen. As the nose get to where it is pointed at the camera, you can see the starboard spoiler fully deployed and no effect. The B-52 was just never meant to fly that slow in knife edge flight. Definitely a sad event.
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[GallopingGhostler]

As he goes into that left hand turn, you can see the exhaust plums pick up, and appears that he put up the power to try to keep the wing loaded, but you can also see the tail drop well below the nose, and I think it was pretty much a given at that point what was going to happen. As the nose get to where it is pointed at the camera, you can see the starboard spoiler fully deployed and no effect. The B-52 was just never meant to fly that slow in knife edge flight. Definitely a sad event.

Yes indeed it was a very tragic event. Not only did he lose his life, but took 3 others with him. And, this was on the eve of his retirement, plus the other officers were nearing their retirements as well.

How much better it is to get wisdom than gold! Yes, to get understanding is to be chosen rather than silver. The highway of the upright is to depart from evil. He who keeps his way preserves his soul. New Heart English Bible

Boeing had a reason to limit banking angle and minimum air speeds. Unfortunately, LTC Holland let his pride get in his way. When modeling the B-52 for RC flight, I gather that addition of non-scale ailerons helped overcome deficiencies with the original design, since modelers tend to push envelopes (within limits of safety for spectators), making aircraft do what they would not do in real life. This is fun and fine.

[Dave Hull]

More modern stress work goes thru an amazing set of intertwined analysis to try to ensure the design life of an airframe is achieved. Perhaps understandably, as the margins are cut closer by better methods, better knowledge of input loads and better lifetime stress monitoring, the result is that they take out more design weight rather than try to extend the airframe life. At least that was the case on the fighter/attack planes I have some knowledge of.  The problem with this is that it is hugely iterative and expensive to do, along with the needed validation testing. But, it does make for some good airframes--until there is an unexpected load case, or one that was poorly understood. If you had a list of these, it would make for some very interesting stories about each airframe. Here are a couple that I know of:

--F/A-18C/D  extended knife edge flight causes instability of the vertical stabilizers. I believe in the US this maneuver was somewhat restricted. There used to be a cockpit rearview video of an Aussie Hornet probably doing an airshow pass and you can actually see the large deflections. Loads greater than anticipated...?

--The LEX on the "legacy" F/A-18s originally caused a ton of issues. One of the "warts" that was added was a very robust fence on the top of the wing to try to get the air to behave. Otherwise, the buffeting loads (which are miserable to try to predict) were larger than expected.

--Of course, the buffeting of the tail on the P-38 which was ameliorated by a better wing root fairing. Buffeting probably wasn't even considered in the design.

--Not sure about the Stratofort, but on smaller aircraft, bomb release is actually a high stress load case even when flying straight and level. The situation for fighters is made worse by the use of external pylons with ejector racks. Perhaps a gravity drop from the bomb bay is benign--or not. How many pilots have described the plane "leaping up" on release?

--Test pilot Tex Johnson kind of annoyed (shocked?) the engineers responsible for the wing design on the B707 with his barrel roll. One of my relatives worked in the wing engineering area at the time...and it was a really big deal.

One reason that the USAF is extending the -52 is probably as a cruise missile launch platform. This legacy is interesting in that, as one of the last efforts by the -52G was as a cruise missile platform during operation Desert Storm in 1991--which is now an almost unbelievable 30 years ago. They carried up to six ALCMs on the two inboard pylons. If interested, go read about the Secret Squirrel program.

One might guess that if the US follows thru on development of hypersonic cruise missiles after being goaded into it by Russia and China, that these will also launch off a -52, but this time an H-model

Dave

[Fredvon4]

B-52 The role of the large conventional bomber was revalidated in the Gulf War. B-52s flew 1,624 missions, dropped over 72,000 weapons, and delivered over 25,700 tons of munitions on area targets In the KTO, and on airfields, industrial targets, troop concentrations and storage areas in Iraq. Despite being over 30 years old, the B-52 had a mission capable rate of over 81%--- 2 % higher than its peacetime rate. B-52s dropped 29 % of all US bombs and 38 % of all Air Force bombs during the war. Through effectivee modification of the B-52, it remains a useful platform. As Iraqi prisoners report, B-52 raids had devastating effects on enemy morale. Estimates show that from 20 to 40 % of troop strength had deserted their units prior to the G-Day. While fighters employed precision guided munitions to destroy pinpoint targets, the B-52s successes demonstrated the need to preserve the large conventional bombers' ability to destroy large area targets.

Back in the early 2000s at Fort Hood adjacent to GRW Joint Use (Killen / Fort Hood Gray Army Air field) we would regularly see Training flights of B-52 (assumed from Tinker AFB OK), C-5s and C-17s lots of touch n go, but some to full stop and then Max performance take off...many aborted landings, some short turn to base with very tight turns and the occasional near stall with immediate max power recovery.....thrilling and very fun to watch from our 2nd floor balcony.

[Dennis Toth]

It has been said that when the USAF retires the last air breathing jet that the Buff B52 will accompany it to the museum. I worked with the 52's in Vietnam in radar directive and also at the DET 2 training facility in Holbrook, AZ. One of the prime training targets was the four corners power plant. Normal runs were conducted at 36,000 ft. They started doing some very low level radar avoidance training that was below 800 ft. People at the power plant went nuts, thinking the Buffs were crashing. When a 52 goes over you that low it is very unnerving, especially when you see the Bombay doors open.

Here's a link to a low pass Buff run, scroll down to the video, enjoy:    https://worldwarwings.com/this-b-52-fast-and-low-will-send-chills-down-your-spine/?fbclid=IwAR03ckrRt_sI6F0rNkCnuv6uivhC9fwheQWiKsluxwpN0GftuOnxyPdf-U8

Best,    DennisT

[Gerald Arana]

It has been said that when the USAF retires the last air breathing jet that the Buff B52 will accompany it to the museum. I worked with the 52's in Vietnam in radar directive and also at the DET 2 training facility in Holbrook, AZ. One of the prime training targets was the four corners power plant. Normal runs were conducted at 36,000 ft. They started doing some very low level radar avoidance training that was below 800 ft. People at the power plant went nuts, thinking the Buffs were crashing. When a 52 goes over you that low it is very unnerving, especially when you see the Bombay doors open.

Here's a link to a low pass Buff run, scroll down to the video, enjoy:    https://worldwarwings.com/this-b-52-fast-and-low-will-send-chills-down-your-spine/?fbclid=IwAR03ckrRt_sI6F0rNkCnuv6uivhC9fwheQWiKsluxwpN0GftuOnxyPdf-U8

Best,    DennisT

Dennis,

This thing locked up my computer. I think it's a virus.........

Jerry

[john e. holliday]

The link worked for this old man.  A lot of good videos of the BUFF.

[EddyR]

 A close friend who flew the  B-47 until it was no longer used told me that ailerons were reversed above 300 mph. The wing twisted a lot as pressure went up. That may be the reason for no ailerons on the B-52.
Ed

[pat king]

We had a movie at Commanders Call every month. The intro was a downward view from a B52 bomb bay with the doors open. When the bombs started dropping it seemed they continued for a couple of minutes.

One of my Fathers high school buddies was a B52 command pilot and IP at Castle AFB.

Pat

[Gary Dowler]

A close friend who flew the  B-47 until it was no longer used told me that ailerons were reversed above 300 mph. The wing twisted a lot as pressure went up. That may be the reason for no ailerons on the B-52.
Ed

Don’t think that would be it. Other aircraft had spoilers for roll instead of ailerons, like the F-14.

Gary

[phil c]

More modern stress work goes thru an amazing set of intertwined analysis to try to ensure the design life of an airframe is achieved.........
Dave

I thought I read something a year or so ago that they had pulled a number of 52's temporarily out of service in order to add Steel reinforcements to the spars in the center of the wing that were showing some fatigue cracking..  Didn't think about it much at the time, but the B-52 has certainly been a LONGLIVED airplane!

[Gary Dowler]

The first design studied that lead to the B-52 were begun in 1948. The first aircraft entered service in 1955. If the Air Force succeeds in keeping them in service into the 2050’s, and any survive to February 2055, the type will have been in continuous service for 100 years!!!!

When they were designed, the rule of thumb was that the expected service life of any front line bomber was 8 years. By the time a type entered service, its replacement should be in development. A bomber staying in service for just 25 years was unheard of (understandable given the incredible pace of aircraft development at the time).   

It shows the plateaus that were reached in many aspects of aircraft performance that have allowed some very successful designs to last multiple decades longer than anticipated.

Gary

[Dave Hull]

How much have dump trucks changed in the last 50 years?

The Divot

[Juan Valentin]

Hello
                      Here is a link to the Ramey AFB historical site with information that includes the B-52 Superfortress.  Base was opened in 1939 in order to Protect the Panama Canal and Caribbean. First Airplanes were the B-18 Bolo Bomber and later on there were B-17,B29,B-36 and last B-52. It lit a love for airplanes for me as a child going to the open house shows. Walking under the wings of the B-36 is something I will never Forget. I joined the Air Force there in 1969. Couple of photos taken at Ramey.
                                                                                                                                                                          Juan

http://rameyafb.net/cold-war/

[GallopingGhostler]

Here is a link to the Ramey AFB historical site with information that includes the B-52 Superfortress.  Base was opened in 1939 in order to Protect the Panama Canal and Caribbean. First Airplanes were the B-18 Bolo Bomber and later on there were B-17,B29,B-36 and last B-52.

Nice photo of the B-36 wing in foreground and B-52 in the background, nice bit of history on Ramey AFB and your military experience, Juan. You joined the Air Force 3 years before I joined the Army. My unit at Ft. Shafter, Honolulu was deactivated same time your base was in closure, spent the last 10 months at Schofield Barracks with the 25th Infantry Division. Got out, and used the G.I. Bill to get my mechanical engineering degree.

With a father who retired from the Air Force in 1965, I love airplanes and model building. I received a Revell B-36 plastic kit in miniature when I was in the 2nd or 3rd grade. My father helped me put it together. I always liked reading about the B-36, if nothing else just because it is different than the other bombers, plus huge.

[Dan McEntee]

How much have dump trucks changed in the last 50 years?

The Divot

     If you have ever driven any, you would surely know!! Major differences in power plants and drive trains!! And they can acrry a lot more weight.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Juan Valentin]

Nice photo of the B-36 wing in foreground and B-52 in the background, nice bit of history on Ramey AFB and your military experience, Juan. You joined the Air Force 3 years before I joined the Army. My unit at Ft. Shafter, Honolulu was deactivated same time your base was in closure, spent the last 10 months at Schofield Barracks with the 25th Infantry Division. Got out, and used the G.I. Bill to get my mechanical engineering degree.

With a father who retired from the Air Force in 1965, I love airplanes and model building. I received a Revell B-36 plastic kit in miniature when I was in the 2nd or 3rd grade. My father helped me put it together. I always liked reading about the B-36, if nothing else just because it is different than the other bombers, plus huge.

        Hello Gallopingghostler
                                                     Since I was born in 1949 very close to the main gate and runway I grew up seeing those wonderful airplanes. We had servicemen  neighbors and they would let us know when an open house was coming. I remember the Sikorsky H-19 Chickasaw doing a rescue simulation of picking up a man from the ground while hovering. The B-47 bomber were stationed at Ramey also. I remember riding my bike to buy balsa , cox engines and cox fuel at the local hobby shop that was located at the other side of the base. The name was Paoli`s hobby shop. it was a great time to be growing up. Now I have a grandson that I can`t wait for him to grow up to teach him how to build and fly model airplanes. I will have to wait a while as he is 2 years old.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Juan

[dale gleason]

Marvin Denny was a B-36 Mechanic/Crew Chief on B-36s in the day. I think he flew out of Carswell and Sheppard. We talked a lot about his service years on B-36s; he had lots of memories and really liked that plane.

They had a distinctive sound that you never forget.

I found these photos somewhere and shared them with Marvin.

dg

(I apologize for shifting the thread to B-36s)

[EddyR]

   Gary do a a little research and you will see the wing twist was the reason for no ailerons. No big loss as it was not going to be doing barrow rolls like the B-47 did . Phil told me they practiced high speed bomb toss and do a immelman turn at the top of the high speed loop. Several 47’s lost a wing at top of loop.  All 47’s updated. He was to go on to the 58 but they stopped production of it.  Phil is a member of the Tampa Bay Flyers.
Ed

[GallopingGhostler]

Since I was born in 1949 very close to the main gate and runway I grew up seeing those wonderful airplanes. We had servicemen neighbors and they would let us know when an open house was coming. I remember the Sikorsky H-19 Chickasaw doing a rescue simulation of picking up a man from the ground while hovering. The B-47 bomber were stationed at Ramey also. I remember riding my bike to buy balsa, cox engines and cox fuel at the local hobby shop that was located at the other side of the base. The name was Paoli`s hobby shop. it was a great time to be growing up. Now I have a grandson that I can`t wait for him to grow up to teach him how to build and fly model airplanes. I will have to wait a while as he is 2 years old.

Hola, Juan, su nieto es muy hermoso, your grandson is very handsome. Soon, he will enjoy kites, balsa gliders, even now a sturdy plastic airplane toy.

Aquí son mis nietos, Evan (7 años de edad) y Ariana (5 años de edad); here are my grandchildren, Evan (7 years old) and Ariana (5 years old). They live a 1 day drive from us, so we visit a couple times a year. Soon, Evan will be old enough to try C/L. We haven't been able to do much this past year because of Covid restrictions statewide in New Mexico.

I remember the RB-47 (reconnaissance version) parked outside the hangars at Hickam AFB, Honolulu, Hawaii when I was a student at the University of Hawaii back in the 1970's.