ink lines first used

[fred cesquim]

is there any consensus about when first ink lines has been used on controliners?
i have made  this continental years ago and used, but while talking to a friend we agreed that probably itīs not contemporary of the design.

[Ted Fancher]

Now "THAT" is one cute stunter!

Looks a bit like a cutie-pie new born puppy anxious to grow up into its feet!  I love it!

Ted

[fred cesquim]

Now "THAT" is one cute stunter!

Looks a bit like a cutie-pie new born puppy anxious to grow up into its feet!  I love it!

Ted

thank you Ted, what an honor!
De Bolt design is a cutie indeed! unfortunately i have chosen a light max 20 and the short nose demanded a heavy engine of old days, so a lot of lead has to be added, still can do some basic stunt with her.

[Dan McEntee]

A really nice DeBolt Continental!! That's a late 50's t0 60's design and I think ink line were used back then. The pens for their application had been in use for many, many years t6o that point and I'm sure some enterprising modeler thought they would make "swell" decorations a derails on any model and not weigh anything. Actual use may have been on free flight scale models to represent panel lines  and control surfaces.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Dennis Adamisin]

is there any consensus about when first ink lines has been used on controliners?
i have made  this continental years ago and used, but while talking to a friend we agreed that probably itīs not contemporary of the design.

Hi Fred
First off, I agree with everyone else that your Continental is GORGEOUS!

In Jim Kostecky's article on the Formula S he mentions that at the 1964 US NATs, George Aldrich, who was the event director and Appearance points judge mentioned something about how he gave extra points in the Realism category to someone who had drawn trim tab lines and wrote "NO STEP" on his airplane.  The one of the flyers lost to another by something like 1/2 point.  Did not take much to figure out that if we all started detailing our airplanes with panel lines, service lettering and such that we might get an extra point or two that would help our final placing!

Thus, my unscientific conclusion puts the timing of the highly detailed line and lettering work some time around the mid 1960's. For the next few years it got kind of crazy!

Oddly enough, when the Realism and Originality categories for appearance were eliminated in 1973, lettering (which was a pain!) quickly disappeared, but most folks continued applying the line work - because it was pretty easy and it looked good!

[GallopingGhostler]

Nice looking Continental, Fred, well done finish, really sharp looking.

In high school in the late 1960's, early 1970's, I read from either Walt Musciano's or Keith Laumer's book about designing and building flying models, on how to rule lines using either thinned dope or India ink and a ruling pen.

First airplane I ruled control surfaces on was an 18" hollow log Scientific Cessna 180, then a rubber powered Guillow 18" Fokker DVIII lined in India ink after I sealed the entire plane's tissue covering with thinned sprayed clear dope. Those ruling pens were tricky, but I managed to do a decent job.

On the CL jobs I'd protect the lines with brushed Pactra, Testors or SIG fuel proofer. After, at times I've used drafting chart tape, some 1/16" wide, 1/32" wide. Then seal the tape with fuel proofer. Been a while since I did, don't know if still available. Lately haven't been big on details. Lined or no lined, they crash the same.

[John Park]

In the late 1950s, when I was twelve or thirteen, I was shown how to depict fake ailerons etc. on C/L models we wanted to look vaguely scale.  We used a good old-fashioned draughtsman's ruling pen, and Humbrol enamel - the point of using Humbrol rather than dope was that if you messed it up (quite a common occurrence), you could wipe it straight off with white spirit on a rag, and try again. 

[fred cesquim]

A really nice DeBolt Continental!! That's a late 50's t0 60's design and I think ink line were used back then. The pens for their application had been in use for many, many years t6o that point and I'm sure some enterprising modeler thought they would make "swell" decorations a derails on any model and not weigh anything. Actual use may have been on free flight scale models to represent panel lines  and control surfaces.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

good information! so probably may has been used back in the late 40īs, not commom, but plausible

[fred cesquim]

In the late 1950s, when I was twelve or thirteen, I was shown how to depict fake ailerons etc. on C/L models we wanted to look vaguely scale.  We used a good old-fashioned draughtsman's ruling pen, and Humbrol enamel - the point of using Humbrol rather than dope was that if you messed it up (quite a common occurrence), you could wipe it straight off with white spirit on a rag, and try again.

that would be a challenge, congrats for doing it so young and with such hard to work tool

[fred cesquim]

Hi Fred
First off, I agree with everyone else that your Continental is GORGEOUS!

In Jim Kostecky's article on the Formula S he mentions that at the 1964 US NATs, George Aldrich, who was the event director and Appearance points judge mentioned something about how he gave extra points in the Realism category to someone who had drawn trim tab lines and wrote "NO STEP" on his airplane.  The one of the flyers lost to another by something like 1/2 point.  Did not take much to figure out that if we all started detailing our airplanes with panel lines, service lettering and such that we might get an extra point or two that would help our final placing!

Thus, my unscientific conclusion puts the timing of the highly detailed line and lettering work some time around the mid 1960's. For the next few years it got kind of crazy!

Oddly enough, when the Realism and Originality categories for appearance were eliminated in 1973, lettering (which was a pain!) quickly disappeared, but most folks continued applying the line work - because it was pretty easy and it looked good!

thanks Dennis! this is real information published, and makes all sense. i am convinced that 50īs planes are elegible after reading such good responses here. In brazil, i believe they became popular in the early 70īs. My personal contact was in 1985 when a guy showed up with a gieseke nobler on ink lines, immediatly i started to use

[fred cesquim]

The De Boldt Continental came out in 1957-59. It was only advertised for 2 years and was the last CL model Hal kitted, then he went to RC. I think the Live Wire  was his first RC kit.

I built one Continental back in 2009, Stinson  maroon and cream. Os .25 FP for power.  A real squirrel on the lines, Very short coupled, Great for combat.

Yours is perfection.

I started using ink lines on my Flite Streak circa 1965. I read abut them in MAN I believe.

thank you, indeed a handfull flight, looks lovely but more like a combat plane than a stunt model

[fred cesquim]

Nice looking Continental, Fred, well done finish, really sharp looking.

In high school in the late 1960's, early 1970's, I read from either Walt Musciano's or Keith Laumer's book about designing and building flying models, on how to rule lines using either thinned dope or India ink and a ruling pen.

First airplane I ruled control surfaces on was an 18" hollow log Scientific Cessna 180, then a rubber powered Guillow 18" Fokker DVIII lined in India ink after I sealed the entire plane's tissue covering with thinned sprayed clear dope. Those ruling pens were tricky, but I managed to do a decent job.

On the CL jobs I'd protect the lines with brushed Pactra, Testors or SIG fuel proofer. After, at times I've used drafting chart tape, some 1/16" wide, 1/32" wide. Then seal the tape with fuel proofer. Been a while since I did, don't know if still available. Lately haven't been big on details. Lined or no lined, they crash the same.

this is what put modellers on a separate class of people, working against odds and being creative despite shortcomings or difficulties!

[fred cesquim]

this one got some hardweare on a "old time" meeting a few years ago and was my "return" model to CL after a 7 years hiatus ( i was on r/c modelling-only for a few years)

[Steve Dwyer]

My old friend built a DMECO Continental in the late 50s and had a beautiful maroon and yellow pattern I never forgot. Several years back I bought the De Dolt kit which still sits on the shelf along with a Ruffy kit of similar vintage. There's nothing more enjoyable than building these old birds from the past but I have begun leaning away from OTS after finishing my Zilch X and Jamison special. We'll see if that box comes off the shelf next winter, who know what will move me.
Steve

[fred cesquim]

My old friend built a DMECO Continental in the late 50s and had a beautiful maroon and yellow pattern I never forgot. Several years back I bought the De Dolt kit which still sits on the shelf along with a Ruffy kit of similar vintage. There's nothing more enjoyable than building these old birds from the past but I have begun leaning away from OTS after finishing my Zilch X and Jamison special. We'll see if that box comes off the shelf next winter, who know what will move me.
Steve

well, itīs a fast build and a good looking plane! i cut mine from plans, but having a kit is 50% less work, look forward to see yours on the bench!

[Steve Dwyer]

Truth is for me there is something sacrilegious about opening a kit from the 50s and using it to build with, it's a treasure to behold. I built my Veco Chief after taking out the plans to copy and bought the balsa of choice. It's not that I'm a big kit collector but I just seem to have respect for things of the past. Anyway someday the grandkids will come across the old box and ask what was control line?

Steve

[GallopingGhostler]

Truth is for me there is something sacrilegious about opening a kit from the 50s and using it to build with, it's a treasure to behold. I built my Veco Chief after taking out the plans to copy and bought the balsa of choice. It's not that I'm a big kit collector but I just seem to have respect for things of the past. Anyway someday the grandkids will come across the old box and ask what was control line? Steve

For me, it is a "yes" and a "no". I've seen many vintage kits and engines being sold on Internet auctions, which were originally estate sales lots. The children and grandchildren have no appreciation for their dad's, grand-dad's things. They are set aside as a lot or two. The buyer gets these for a song. Then individually parcels them out at sometimes ridiculously high prices. The family received very little benefit, save they had less stuff to get rid of with the passing of a loved one.

So, that it mind, I have no qualms about building a long out of production kit that now is alleged to have historic value. Value it has, yes, but it is not like an expensive painting or heirloom furniture.

So, if of value to some, may be worth using the kit part as templates, preserve it, build a duplicate. I framed a 1959 Berkeley Impulse RC trainer from its kit wood, but it was nothing to be proud of, as rough cut as the die cut lumber was in the kit. The quality of the wood was overall poor. The fuselage sheet sides were saw cut but not sanded, could see the blade marks of the cut. I ended up replacing some of the pieces with good wood.

I guess I could have retained its contents for historic value to document how poor the quality of wood in the kit really was. I kept the box and plans as a momenta. But to each their own.

[GallopingGhostler]

Example using colored chart tape. I know it is not CL, but for example only, a 20" Ace R/C Littlest Stick.

[fred cesquim]

Truth is for me there is something sacrilegious about opening a kit from the 50s and using it to build with, it's a treasure to behold. I built my Veco Chief after taking out the plans to copy and bought the balsa of choice. It's not that I'm a big kit collector but I just seem to have respect for things of the past. Anyway someday the grandkids will come across the old box and ask what was control line?

Steve

what i have learnt from years of model building (professionally) and running a record store is> some collectors never open their records to listen and listen either cdīs or online to "preserve the quality of the record"( preserve for whom?) and as soon as kit collectors pass away family either give them or sell them cheap for the next carelss builder. Being a record collector and model builder i rather listen to all of my records and build the few kits i have ( my limit is to stash kits i am able to build within next 5 years). whoīs right or wrong? i donīt know, guess the one that have more joy with his concealed stash of kits or flying his new model built.
btw i am just finishing a 50īs all american kit that the previous owner kept for 40 years waiting his retirement to build ( heīs retired for 20 years and never started) so he gave me the kit. poor wood, poor kit but a lot of joy

[Steve Dwyer]

Gents, points well taken.

I'm considering leaving an instructional note in the shop to hopefully give my wife or the kids contact information with names and organizations, i.e. Stunt Hanger and member contacts to try to donate the kits, tools and materials.  I think it'd be a lost cause to leave contact info for the local RC club. Fortunately the wood shop equipment will find a home with my three sons. As morbid as it seems this is reality as time is creeping on us all.

Steve