Incorrectly hooked up lines, and attempts at flight afterward...

[Chris McMillin]

I was amazed and confused at all of the carnage lately by Expert flyers in that their models were destroyed because of incorrectly hooked up lines.
I heard of checklists, color coded line ends and the like but the bottom line is really simple.

On real airplanes, the ones in which you ride inside of, we do this thing called a control check. It's done by moving the control device inside the airplane, stick, rudder pedals, control wheel, etc, and then while the cockpit thingy is in the extreme position one looks outside to see if the control surface that makes the airplane do it's pitch, roll, yaw thing is in the correct position for the cockpit thingy position. We call this, "free and correct" and look to see that they actually are.

In control line Stunt this is really easy. Before one signals for launch, do one thing, give the model full up. Fix ones attention to the elevator and see that it is pointing upward. If not, do not signal to launch.

Just a thought. A friendly alert to a technique not so hard to do. I do it every time, myself. On my Olympic I looked at the flaps of course, full up meant flaps down.

Good luck,
Chris...

[bill rutherford]

Good point Chris. I like most of us has done it twice in my life but I always check that before launch.
      When you gonna build a new stunt ship? I mean it's not like you have the time.   Just a little pressure ol buddy.

[Motorman]

I would get different pilots in racing events and it was amazing they would go out and pick up the handle and not check anything. I would have to tell them "give me up" and sometimes it would be down even though up was painted red on the handle. I even started painting "UP" on the handle with an arrow pointing up along with the red color and they would still ask me if red was up like they couldn't read or check for themselves. Also, I always lay the handle down with up to the left so it's natural to pick it up the right way and they would still get it wrong sometimes. It's like what are we doing here today, did you come just to breath the air. Every time you pick up a handle pull up check neutral how easy is that.

MM

[Alan Resinger]

Over the years I've seen this happen to various levels of skilled flyers and wonder how this seemingly easy to remedy problem is not addressed.  I remember seeing one of Paul Walkers planes about 25 years ago and ask him about the staggered lead out cables he used.  His reply was "if you ever have the clips catch while you are flying you will understand".  I'd never had it happen until about 3 weeks later in the first loop of the cloverleaf.  After about 4 inside loops I hit both lines with my free hand and they popped loose.  I went home and staggered the leadouts and have on every plane since.  The slight downside is that you have to tie your lines to reflect this offset.  The other plus is that you will never hook the lines up backwards if you leave you handle connected to your lines when they are on the reel.  My leadouts are typically about 4 inches difference in length when the controls are neutral.  You would have to be pretty out of it not to notice that your neutral is off by 8 inches.  I really can't see why flyers are so reluctant to do this.
Alan  

[bob whitney]

Try flying a 135 MPH 21 Proto with the lines reversed.  is that neutral ,Yup ,let er go.

[Motorman]

Try flying a 135 MPH 21 Proto with the lines reversed.  is that neutral ,Yup ,let er go.

I'll bet that first lap was nice and tight though.

MM

[Steve Helmick]

I think color coding is a bad idea. Looking at the elevator is a real good idea. When I help somebody (carry the handle to the circle) prior to launch, I check to make sure the elevator goes the correct direction. I always tell Mike Haverly that his handle is hooked up backwards, because it is, for most people.

I have several times repeated the story about being at Fairchild AFB when a B-52 crashed because the elevator servo was wired "wrong". The original servo had been manufactured improperly, so at the Boeing plant this was "fixed" by reversing the wires, rather than pulling and rejecting the motor. When the elevator (stabilator) servo went TU, the USAF techs wired the new one the same way, checked only to make sure that it worked, but didn't check to see if it was "correct", and it wasn't. Cost the lives of the whole crew.

Don't trust your color coded leadouts/lines. Grab the wrong set of lines and you could be in trouble. Staggered lines and leadouts is best idea! Steve

[Fredvon4]

Steve....interesting story on the B52 servo

I taught aircraft quality control for a few years and used that exact crash indecent report to make a point to my students

I my case the AH 1 G Cobra Helicopter was being refitted to be a Modified Cobra and many air-frames from Viet Nam had non conventional repairs that the rebuild facility Corpus Christy Army Depot did not consider....

They delivered quite a few aircraft rigged improperly and I was teaching how to inspect and find these anomalies before a Pilot and test flight got into trouble

Fortunately I fly for fun so never any stress related distractions of competition and no hurry up mode

I also was taught and later taught aircraft safety and crash investigation

Training and creating habits is a hard thing to do but almost always will prevent an accident

Pit man and pilot are a team and when your pilot picks up handle upside down you DO NOT Launch

This from combat and not stunt experience

[Tom Niebuhr]

I totally disagree with Steve.

1) I get 26GA red and green wire from the bead section of a craft store like Michaels.

2) Wrap BOTH ENDS of your lines with the colored wire

(I use Green for UP and Red for DOWN)

I also wrap my flexible leadouts with the corresponding colors.

This way your helper can simply match colors.

3) ALWAYS check to make sure Up is Up when at the handle

4) Check the connection at the wing leadouts  BEFORE starting the engine/motor''

5) ALWAYS use lines and a handle dedicated to one airplane ONLY

[Bob Matiska]

This reminds me of my first attempt to fly controlline way back about 1965. The plane was my Baby Ringmaster and the engine an old OK Cub 049 (the one with the red tank). My cousin Jack, who had been flying for years, was to start the engine and told me to go out to the handle. I picked it up and asked "Is this right?" He looked and said yes. While he was starting the engine, I noticed when I raised the handle the elevator went down and when I lowered it, the elevator went up. OK, Jack said it was right, I just have to remember that up is down and down is up. He got the old Cub going and I took off, remembering that up was down and down was up... for about a lap. The plane met terra firma rather quickly and my cousin was embarrassed about what happened. We couldn't get the Cub started again, so I didn't solo that day. In fact, it wasn't until April of 1966 (50 years next month) that I soloed using a Golden Bee an uncle gave me for Christmas for power.

Bob in NEPA

[wwwarbird]

 They need to be checked during the attachment phase, as soon as they are connected and walked out, way before the engine is running and any launch signal might be given.

[Jim Hoffman]

Many (most?) of the Expert reverse errors have occurred during the trimming process where lines, handles, clips are changing or being adjusted each flight.  During that phase one must slow down and double check before allowing the plane to be released.

The system that works for me is to use a matched set lines and handle for each airplane. The lines and handle remain connected in storage.  The Handle is CLEARLY labeled with the name of the airplane. When putting away, I leave one clip on the lines and one clip on the airplane lead out.  This is very effective for me to insure correct hook up next outing.  I also double check at the handle that up handle is up elevator.

Jim Hoffman

[Mike Haverly]

Yes, Jim.  My last foopa was last month on my new Chizler.  I had removed the lines to make an elevator adjustment,  walked over with the model in my hands and calmly hooked the color coded, offset lines backwards!  BS during the procedure was the reason for the lack of attention to detail.  The offset lines made the problem instantly clear.  With my hand at about 40 degrees from vertical and a slack line it's not hard to figure it out.

Full disclosure:  I've done it four times in the last thirteen years, only once did it cause a crash.  Two had color coded lines and none had offset lengths. 

Bottom line is, "Ya gotta pay attention"!  Trimming a new model can be a relaxing time.  Next time I'll relax more when I'm done for the day.

[wwwarbird]

The system that works for me is to use a matched set lines and handle for each airplane. The lines and handle remain connected in storage.  The Handle is CLEARLY labeled with the name of the airplane. When putting away, I leave one clip on the lines and one clip on the airplane lead out.  This is very effective for me to insure correct hook up next outing.  I also double check at the handle that up handle is up elevator.

Jim Hoffman

 Describes my system exactly. I still always walk the lines and check again, before any fuel goes in the tank.

[wwwarbird]

Many (most?) of the Expert reverse errors have occurred during the trimming process where lines, handles, clips are changing or being adjusted each flight.  During that phase one must slow down and double check before allowing the plane to be released.

 Agreed.

[Sean McEntee]

     We have a term in the Army for when one simply assumes that something will go right just because it has in the past:  complacency.  I also hold the belief that nothing is a substitute for checking the controls.  I have seen good plans like allot of the ones mentioned end up with a pile of tinder.

     None of my lines or leadouts have any markings.  I do 3 control checks:  When I put the lines on, when I run the lines out after I set the model in the circle, and once more before I signal to release.  Quick, easy, and safe.

     

[Mike Haverly]

The one time I wrecked an airplane because of this I know that I had checked the controls.  Sure enough, they moved up and down.  Those lines were color coded too.

That word, complacency, sucks.  I was more interested in a strange model someone had brought to the field than my own doings.  Yes, a trim change.  I had removed the lines, place the airplane in the grass to change tip weight.  That was my first electric and I heard every explicative that Pete Peterson uttered when he released, from the buzzed prop to the straight up and the weird maneuvers before going straight in.

Gotta pay attention!!

[Alan Buck]

IF you leave one line clip on the plane and other on line on reel.
 It is real hard to hook up with up wrong. but I still check them
 to be safe.

[Mike Haverly]

Yes Alan, it is harder but still happens.  I've seen it.

[Alan Buck]

HI Mike I agree  But you have to work at

[Mike Haverly]

I should clarify the last post.  It is entirely possible to hook up your lines, make and adjustment to the elevator that now requires a handle adjustment for neutral.  Here again is a trimming issue and happens after making a flight with the handle a off at neutral.  Those of us that use "hard point" handles make the adjustment usually by changing one or both clips.  It's not hard to make a mistake there.  Of course, the doesn't take away from the fact that you need to double check (triple check) before launch.

Remember that guy Murphy?  Things can and do go wrong.  In this case always preventable.

[Mark Scarborough]

I should clarify the last post.  It is entirely possible to hook up your lines, make and adjustment to the elevator that now requires a handle adjustment for neutral.  Here again is a trimming issue and happens after making a flight with the handle a off at neutral.  Those of us that use "hard point" handles make the adjustment usually by changing one or both clips.  It's not hard to make a mistake there.  Of course, the doesn't take away from the fact that you need to double check (triple check) before launch.

Remember that guy Murphy?  Things can and do go wrong.  In this case always preventable.

usually as a result of being under time constraints,, when you can least afford a problem

[Randy Powell]

It's about routine, too. I got out of my routine and that led to disaster. Stick with the routine.

[Jim Kraft]

The problem is men are fallable. The old saying is if you have never hooked them up backwards, you are about to.

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

I have never picked the handle up upside down before but once the airplane was upside down.

It corrected itself,,,,
   
    must have skidded 30 feet on the canopy.

What I have done is gone out to a handle on a running plane, picked up the handle and wiggled the controls to verify that they were free and not stuck, one of a previous flight/day had had a connector flipped, while up was up, neutral was way off until part way through the flight, the resulting 5 foot sudden altitude change when the connector popped straight was cause for an underwear change, I was just flying level after realizing something was off.  So I got into this wiggle and check that neutral is neutral, forgot to check that wiggling up was up.

Habits build up quick sometimes and they know when to bite.

[Doug Moon]

I leave one clip on the plane and one on the reel.  You cannot hook it up wrong this way.  I know someone said you could earlier but only if there was a change between the last hook up and the next one would it be a problem and then it wouldn't be the one on the plane and one on the reel as the culprit.

I also work the handle before EVERY SINGLE launch.  You should work the handle up and down anyways to get the lines off of each other before the launch so you will have the most fluid control over your roll out.

[Steve Helmick]

I have not ever crashed because I hooked up the lines incorrectly. Other reasons, yes. Many reasons, but not that one. 

I have dedicated lines/handle for each plane I actively fly. I leave one clip on the plane, and one on one of the lines. Once, the clip disappeared from the leadout, and I still haven't found it, years later. What I do is use 3 standard Sullivan or Brodak clips, and both at the airplane are among those. The one custom homemade clip is on the handle, and both clips stay on the handle, although I do take the handle off the lines. I fasten the lines to the plane and roll them out, then hook the handle on. I can see the elevator well enough to see that it goes "up" when the handle is held in "up". Leaving the handle attached to the lines makes a bulkier package. I keep the handle and lines in a ziplock quart freezer bag with the plane's name written on it. Usually have a spare set of lines in there, but they're in a secondary plastic bag, so easily identified as spares.

I will never color code my lines and leadouts. It may help you, but it may also lead you down the path of complacency. The color code may be hooked up correctly, but then again, you might have grabbed the wrong set of lines. Stuff happens. Checking to see that up = up and neutral = neutral is critical and safest.  Steve

[Tim Wescott]

On real airplanes, the ones in which you ride inside of, we do this thing called a control check. It's done by moving the control device inside the airplane, stick, rudder pedals, control wheel, etc, and then while the cockpit thingy is in the extreme position one looks outside to see if the control surface that makes the airplane do it's pitch, roll, yaw thing is in the correct position for the cockpit thingy position. We call this, "free and correct" and look to see that they actually are.

I always do that just before release for every flight.  Start motor, saunter to the handle, pick up, check controls, center myself, and give the hand signal.  People think I'm crazy for doing so, but twice at contests (and only at contests for some reason) I've found the controls reversed and saved myself from crashing.

I do it with my RC planes, too, where it's also saved me.

[John Leidle]

   Steve , you said color code is a bad idea... in what way is it bad? Red to red , green to green .. ask any Electrician.
  John

[Randy Powell]

Yea, mine have always been color coded. That was the problem, I used a set of lines that weren't. Breaking out the routine, I didn't check them as I never check there because they are alway color coded --- until that time. Stick with the routine.

[Steve Helmick]

I already stated my reason for believing that color matching lines/leadouts is asking for problems. It makes you complacent. You might think "the color codes are right, so it must be ok, no need to check further". Several people I know (locally) use color coded lines, but have still managed to get it wrong. Paul has the best plan...5" stagger in leadout length.

The one thing that seems illogical to me is to drop your 19 gram handle "out there" in the pits and drag it 20' while you run your lines out. Maybe put a brick on it, or a couple of those LiPo things?  That's one reason why I attach my lines to the plane first...it stays put. The other reason is that I can wind up my lines between rounds and leave them on the spool at the wingtip, still attached to the leadouts. That's a real nice feature...not getting my lines stomped on and damaged in the pits.    Steve   

[Will Davis]

I have never crashed because of lines hooked up wrong., but on several occasions I have hooked them up wrong and caught them  with a pre flight check.

 I always follow the same routine/ ritual after I hook up the lines to lead outs on model  .  I walk my lines out , wipe them down and check controls before I fuel up or connect battery .  I leave  dedicated handle attached to lines , only time I remove handle is to change line clip for neutral or line spacing on hard point .

Lots of walking , but sticking to some type of pre flight check will elimate a mistake and crashed model .

[Dan Berry]

I'm no good at flying Stunt but EVERY time I pick up the handle I give it up elevator and watch the elevator go...... up, prior to signaling a launch.
Doesn't everyone do this? Every time?