New/Revised AMA Safety Code Rule: General #9

[Hoss Cain]

In the new/revised AMA Safety Code effective 2010, there are some items that I have a problem with. I will list one here. While it may not be as serious for CL as it is for RC, some of you do both, and it could be a CL problem also.
As a long time modeler for many years before the Safety Code and a professional aviator for 41 years, I have a lot of experience with such rules. YOU are going to see this come alive within your clubs in the not-too-distant future as we slip backwards. Maybe you might email your DVP for his input about this item at the coming next weekend EC meeting. I have.

2010 AMA Safety Code.
General:
9. I will not operate my model aircraft while under the influence of alcohol or while using any drug which could adversely affect my ability to safely control the model.

Is the removal of the 8 hour rule a good thing? For whom! Who or What defines, "....under the influence..."?

I do not question drugs as some prescription drugs, or medical "weed" is beyond my scope. OTOH, I can sit and have a good Mexican lunch, 2 beers to wash it down, and never know any influence, or be labeled a drunk driver. Now, may I do the same for model airplane flying?

Heck, back in days of old, some times I crawled into the jet, just me by myself, and I was still much under the influence of some several hours ago, yet I'm still alive and never even used the ejection seat.   

IMO, removing the 8 hours is going to open up a whole lot of snakes for Contest Directors (CD), Club Officers and Safety Officers.
As a CD, I see a guy having a beer at lunch. He has some time before he flies. What happens if I call him on it? He can sue me and AMA, that is what happens.
I do not have any legal right to determine whether he is under the influence or not, and as a CD, I am the official representative of AMA, so making such a call brings AMA into the playing field. The same will happen within the Charter Clubs and Officers, as soon as the news gets around.

Will we eventually get back to pre-safety-code Good-Ol'-Days when the caller/spotter's main purpose was to hold the model pilot's beer?     BTDT many a time. 

Seriously, this dropping of the 8 hour rule leaves a lot of room for much dissension among the ranks, and removes almost all teeth in the rule. Go ahead and play tough-guy with your answers, however come back after you have experienced a real situation and then tell us about it.

I like my brew, and I have a few whenever I wish to. I no longer wish to, either reasonably before driving or flying a model aircraft.

I don't care to see my club's officers start to looking the other way concerning drinkers, simply because the officers will have no real power to do anything about a drinker if he can stand up, without help. 

[Scott Hartford]

If you're the CD, can't you just state "no alcoholic beverages" on the contest flyer? Or find a better group to fly with if they're a bunch of drunks?....

[Howard Rush]

The Jive Combat Team does not drink, smoke, cuss, or chew,
And we don't go with girls who do.

[Don Hutchinson AMA5402]

A famous aviator once told me the real rule: 24 hours between the bottle and the throttle so at midnight we switch to cans.

[Marvin Denny]

  As I see it, it is no different than the old rule (if you can call a "safety code" a rule),   Under the old rule, do you know what the flier had to drink in the previous 8 hours???  Probably not--- unless you happened to be the one drinking.  also the Safety code is intended  to be more of a guide  for the individual to observe and comply volunterily to than an "enforcable " law.  It is written in first case  "I... do this or that etc.
  I have seen more than one individual show up at the field so blotted out that he could hardly stand up and try to fly his plane.   I also saw a case where the field owner ran several drunks off the field with a shotgun after blowing the tent poles of their shade awning off  about half way up their length.

  Bigiron

[Howard Rush]

Typical combat contest.

[Paul Smith]

I expect that AMA revised their safety code under the advice of lawyers who know about this stuff.

There's nothing magic about 8 hours.  "Under the influence" is a much better wording.  The USAF used to use 12 hours.  But a man can get over one beer in 2 hours.  There might be illegal drugs about that effect a person for 24 or maybe 48 hours.

The Federal Govamint, the DEA, county sheriffs, local police, MADD, prohibitionists, and countless other do-gooders haven't made much of a dent in tings that get you high, other than collecting a ton on tax alcohol and tobacco.  AMA should (and apparently is) stick to managing toy airplane flying.

Model airplanes crash a lot.  Sport flying fields and contest venues must take this reality into account.  If something you own gets hit by an 80-pound turbojet fire bomb, does it really matter if the pilot was drunk, on drugs, or just a bad pilot?

[Mike Anderson]

........

Model airplanes crash a lot.  Sport flying fields and contest venues must take this reality into account.  If something you own gets hit by an 80-pound turbojet fire bomb, does it really matter if the pilot was drunk, on drugs, or just a bad pilot?

It matters to the people who write your liability policy -- it gives them a reason to deny coverage.

[Hoss Cain]

  As I see it, it is no different than the old rule (if you can call a "safety code" a rule),   Under the old rule, do you know what the flier had to drink in the previous 8 hours???  //SNIP//.

  Bigiron

Nope! I would not know and I don't really care to know. OTOH if your person is not SEEN drinking, and nothing happens then Very Good, nothing to whine about.

This is so simple, yet so difficult for some to understand: The TIME rule gives the other rule-abiding folks a rule that they can enforce if they SEE-OBSERVE a person drinking, during a time of flying. 12, 10, 8 hours, 6 hours, 4 hours is not the real question. The question is how can the rule be enforced? Time allows something. "Under the influence" allows absolutely nothing. Pretty soon we will get back to the old days when no such rule exists.

Now as Mike Anderson so eloquently stated, it is the insurance that matters. If the EC listened to the insurance people about this, then I would tend to believe that the insurance company is simply looking for more escape routes. In these matters, as far as the EC is concerned, I am rather like JOHN ADAMS when he once stated, " In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress." 

The ultimate is when Apt. Dweller shows up, rather soused, and no one will take the responsibility, he proceeds to fly, goes over the top of the circle, loses the handle and that big .60 powered javelin gets you in the back, placing you in a wheel chair for a year. Then since A.D. has no primary liability insurance, other than maybe a small amount, and the AMA insurance courts and courts and gets away free because the guy was tested soused after the accident, therefore no liability coverage under the group contract. Even worse the accident could be your child or wife, and such medical comes expensive.

Folks, it pays to get OUT OF THE SHOE-BOX!  Look at all the ramifications possible. Since I was by far not the smartest, and definitely not the best stick-and-rudder jock, I feel that by considering all the directions, I kept my self very healthy for 41 years of professional 1:1 scale. At least such life style provides conversation. 

[John Sunderland]

Funny this should come up. During the 70s I was a teen who attended many a RC Pattern meet here in the mid west where our current AMA president and the previous president were always in attendance. Lotsa beer was flowing back in the day! And "Brownie" could fly the heck out of a pattern ship under the influence. Trust me here, I am not talking one or two either! Most meets were flown in old corn fields way out of town too! The caller not only held the beer but steered the pilot to the flight line. We thought it was funny, especially when the drinker kicked everybodys ass with transmitter in his hands. Not an excuse, but if you put one in, it was usually a row or two of corn that suffered, not to mention the ego of the pilot. Things have changed. I love beer...but not before I fly, especially in competition. The risk is someones safety, some clubs field or flying privileges and the reputation of modelers as a whole.

I have CDed a bit. I watch who is doing what. Every now and then a buddy of mine will approach me with the "smell of enthusiasm" and I quietly ask them to keep it civil and ask that they be sure they can participate safely or simply skip the flying portion for today and enjoy the rest of the day with the guys. No problems, ever.

Personally, I fly like crap hung over and have proved it more than once as have many before me. Nats week I wont drink period until after the top 20 is over.  A two beer lunch with food has always been acceptable for anyone else as far as I am concerned. Just not me.

[john e. holliday]

It is amazing how things change thru the years.  I can remember talking to a top notch scale builder and flyer that you could smell the beer before he got to ya.  His speech was also slurred, but, nobody said anything as he held a high position with AMA and well known.  He could also make that scale plane do exactly what he wanted it to do.  The last time I had one beer they had to guide me back to the motel.  DOC Holliday

[Jim Oliver]

Just wondering-------under the old rule(s), were there ever any accidents or incidents?  If yes, how were they handled?

Thanks,
Jim