Igor Burger's ECH's final flight

[Claudio Chacon]

Hi guys,
This is what I call a "HELL OF A FLIGHT". Aside from the triangles (too "steep" IMHO) the rest of the pattern is just AWESOME!
Check out that RWO!!!

Enjoy!

[Dan McEntee]

    I notice at the end of the flight, when the motor stopped, he made a abrupt and definite dive from the level he was flying at, about 10 or twelve feet, ( maybe 2 to 3 meters) and pulled out at normal level flight for his landing. This takes place directly opposite of the camera. Does this not detract from his landing score? Doesn't the landing maneuver start right at motor or engine shut off?
   Just curious,
   Dan McEntee

[Steve Fitton]

Nice chick in the blue outfit(!)

[Lauri Malila]

    I notice at the end of the flight, when the motor stopped, he made a abrupt and definite dive from the level he was flying at, about 10 or twelve feet, ( maybe 2 to 3 meters) and pulled out at normal level flight for his landing. This takes place directly opposite of the camera. Does this not detract from his landing score? Doesn't the landing maneuver start right at motor or engine shut off?
   Just curious,
   Dan McEntee

No, the landing maneuver starts when the model (with stopped engine) is at 1,5m altitude. After that it must glide down smoothly and touch the ground after one lap.
These are not the exact words from rules but I hope you understand.

I understand that in AMA rules the landing is differend, easier..? L

[SteveMoon]

Nice pattern, looked almost as good as the girl in the blue dress.

Steve

[jose modesto]

I was distracted a few times could not find the model, lost track of which maneuver was next. Flight was real nice. Looked a little fast in some parts.
Jose Modesto

[Doug Moon]

Nice chick in the blue outfit(!)

There was a model flying?

[Doug Moon]

Excellent flight!  Not much to pick on thats for sure.

Go back and watch his round 8 intersections INCLUDING exit, WOW!

[Will Davis]

Nice shapes, blue always presents well

[john e. holliday]

Well mistakes or not it was one good flight.   Must be all that indoor flying that helped.   Also guys you missed the one in the brown outfit.   

[Doug Moon]

Hello Ed,

I went back and watched the clover many times.  If you place your mouse on the sign with the A on it next to the spectators before he starts the clover you will note the camera moves during the first loop.  We are talking about quite a large distance from the camera to the airplane so even a slight movement in the camera is going skew or change the shape.  Plus the camera is not centered so that the clover intersections are dead down wind.  This skews it even more so.  I am not saying it didnt make the mistake you saw i am just saying the camera can make it more glaring due to image issues.

I would be willing to bet in person that flight looked really really good.  Video just doesnt do it justice sometimes.

[phil c]

It was a pretty flight.  Mostly nice quick corners, the RWO was very good.
Look carefully at the perspective of the plane during maneuvers.  The heights were generally low, 40 deg. or so.on the loops, the triangles hit 45 deg.  The tops of the square 8 varied about 5 ft.  All the vertical maneuvers appeared to be "out in front", well below 90deg.  The overhead eight hit the intersections very well, it was just 60 deg. loops, like most are.  It might be the camera not pointing at the center of the maneuver, but the clover appeared to have small loops on the right and larger on the left.  The camera did move the center about 5ft or  so, with that in mind the intersection was very well placed.

I'd be happy to do that well.

[john e. holliday]

If he is able as some people I have heard of, was probably a where of who the judges were and was flying to please them.   But, really with the camera in a position that is not in the some position of the judges, how can we tell. 

[PerttiMe]

The camera was also moving a little sometimes, which COULD affect how it looks, at some moments.

[Howard Rush]

If he is able as some people I have heard of, was probably a where of who the judges were and was flying to please them.

I think he was a where of what the shapes are and how to get an airplane to make them. 

[RandySmith]

Quote from: john e. holliday on August 17, 2013, 09:59:43 AM
If he is able as some people I have heard of, was probably a where of who the judges were and was flying to please them.

I think he was a where of what the shapes are and how to get an airplane to make them. 


" you can't please everyone, so ya gotta please yourself ":

[Paul Walker]

Looks like they should have held the 2010 world champs at this site! It looks nice and open!!

I see Tania was once again placing the critical eye on Igor's flight.

[Steve Helmick]

It would have helped a bunch if the video camera had been rigidly tripod mounted, and fewer folks blocking the view. I thought the triangles were a little narrow, and the clover loops were bigger on the topside than the bottom ones, but the view was not great of the bottom of the lower loops. I like that shade of blue very much... Steve

[Lauri Malila]

Paul,

That is exactly the same place as in 2010. L

[Paul Walker]

Oh!

[Valentin Apostolov]

Gentlemen,
I looked at the videos of Igor and Kornmeir/second placed/ made by one and the same cameraman.
The view we have from this point can not give us impression the figures above 45 should be bigger. According me the judges should mark that, They are placed outside of the centre of the circle and due to the fact we are flying
on a sphere/radius the angle of there view is different. Does not not matter if they stand on legs or are  seated.
Very often we fly accordoing to the pleasure of the judges. Unfortionatly part of the 'game'

Valentin Apostolov

[Rafaela Hellena da Silva]

Very often we fly accordoing to the pleasure of the judges. Unfortionatly part of the 'game'

Valentin Apostolov

Hello, I see in contests in Brazil the same thing. Each competitor has to fly with to pleasure the judges!  And they do not realize that the vision of who controls the model and who sees far away is different. 

Rafaela

[NED-088]

About 'flying to please the judges', Howard already pointed out what the real situation is.
FAI judges are expected to recognize the correct shapes from various angles. AMA judges are just the same (I hope... ).
In a way it's like learning to draw 3D objects on a flat surface, using perpective, projection and what more.
Some people get it real quick, while others.....   I think of myself as average, but ok.
A very useful, read: indispensable, tool is Keith Renecle's simulator program in which the viewpoint can be adapted.
You can train yourself at viewing from angles up to 15 deg. and still getting it right. Not ideal, but doable.
I'm honing my skills at least once a month throughout the year, but generally more often, especially before something as important as a European Championship.
Would be a bad thing if I didn't, I'm one of the judges in this movie......

About the triangles, I've seen many that had top corners of almost 90 deg., so I understand that many people would classify a correct triangle as 'too steep'...

[Igor Burger]

:- )))))

Nice, but I do not think it is possible to judge from such videos so easy as it is possible in real. As I see it, I have imagination of too small figures. May be it depends of objective length, too short or too long lenses can corrupt shapes. But yes, that riangle costed me lot of points, I thing I got under 7 points from head judge ... fortunately it was still enough :- )))

However I did not see any top pilot to corrupt shapes to show judges what they want to see. At least I did not, I think I can tell the same for Richie and I am sure for Alex and Jiri. The rest is on judges as Bruno wrote, and I think this jury was experienced. It is very disapointing if pilot knows about his mistakes and he does not see it reflected in his score. I can say that I saw my mistakes reflected and I expect the same also for other fliers.

[Tania Uzunova]

) And little bit help to clear what judges see : )

[Igor Burger]

My score sheet? :- )))) ... well 6.8 for triangles  :- ))))

[Robert-Jan]

Igor congratulations with you first place.
Just wonder if there would be more positive reactions if you were an American.

Greetings Robert-Jan

[Igor Burger]

I was in Netherlads as a student on study stay for a while. And I found that 1/3 of telephone book are Burgers ... so I am probably Dutch, also my daddy used to say something like that ... so may be I had positive reaction at least at one of judges 

[Doug Moon]

......I can say that I saw my mistakes reflected and I expect the same also for other fliers.

Congratulations Igor!

It is a very good feeling when you look at your sheet and see the scores accordingly to how you saw the mistakes.

[MikeCoulombe]

When I was heavy into competition I too tried to figure out what the judges wanted to see.
Only when I started flying the pattern by the book did my scores start to improve.
Igor flew a very nice pattern, the triangles were a little high we all saw that.
Congrats on the win Igor.

[Keith Renecle]

Reading comments from Igor and also Bruno, makes me feel that the years of work done on fixing the rule definitions and trying to get rid of the old philosophy of flying to suit certain judges whims and fancies, have been worth the effort. Igor has also been a big part of this work on Peter Germann's F2B committee, so this is nice to see that we are indeed getting there. Well done to the judging team in Hungary!

His triangle is in fact not so bad either. The width looks about right, but maybe it's a little high at the top. I can't really trace video's when they do not have a fixed position, like from a tripod, do it's hard to say. Well, I can still trace them, but it will not be too objective. Most pilots perform the triangles too wide, and then to get equal length sides they have to do the top higher. This looks more conventional and what we are used to seeing.

Keith R

[Igor Burger]

Keith, it certainly helped, and also to us flyers. Finally we saw what we have to fly :- ))))

That video is from Attila, recorded from hand ... here is orriginal record without compression from youtube:

http:#//87.197.134.200/igor_f3.wmv
(remove that # )

it is little bit better especially if downloaded and then played from disc. It shows model also during corners, so it is much better ... yes yes shows more mistakes :-P

[NED-088]

I was in Netherlands as a student on study stay for a while. And I found that 1/3 of telephone book are Burgers ... so I am probably Dutch, also my daddy used to say something like that ... so maybe I had positive reaction at least at one of judges 

Are you trying to tell us, you were actually flying there at the E Ch too?
Too bad I missed that altogether. When judging, I only look at pattern shapes, sizes and positioning.
This is a hell of a job in itself and I don't have time left over to find out who is flying.....

Literally translated, burger means citizen.....

[Igor Burger]

:- )))) ... no, I did not fly that time. I had gap, we had too many changes in our country(ies) also. And yes I was also surprised what my name means ...  you have so many "citizens" in your country :- ))))))))))))

but Bruno ... is this face from your message  you while you follow someones round eight? :- )))))))))))))))))) ... I would like to see hourglass :- )))))))))

[Igor Burger]

Keith, Attila did also video recorded from tripod, it is Jiri Vejmola, so you can analyze it if you want :- ))

http:#//87.197.134.200/vejmola_1.wmv
(remove that #)

it is his final flight

unfortunately all my flight are recorded from hand, and one flight of Alex is also from tripod, but from side, so I thin it is not usefull. The video is called:

http:#//87.197.134.200/schrek_5.wmv

[NED-088]

Is there a 5 minute time limit? Hard to tell when it touched down but it crossed the line at 5:13 so it must have been close.

No, what makes you think so?
In F2B it's 7 minutes.
I used to set my timer at 5' 35".