News:


  • July 17, 2025, 10:52:16 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Identify Engine  (Read 3893 times)

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Identify Engine
« on: August 02, 2021, 03:47:26 PM »
Can anyone identify this engine? It is on a Ringmaster Junior I want to restore for one of the grandkids. It has a 8x6 prop on it, it needs to be loosened up, probably hasn't run in years.

Steve

Offline James Lee

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 633
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2021, 03:55:29 PM »
Cox Tee Dee 09 or 15.....
Jim

Offline kenneth cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1501
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2021, 06:19:24 PM »
              The TD .15 needle is not solid on the end, it has a hole. I believe you have the .09.

Offline James Lee

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 633
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2021, 06:21:14 PM »
Based on the height of the motor it is an 09...    teh 15 is 2 25/64 " tall according to the Cox info...
Jim

Offline Trostle

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3396
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2021, 11:39:17 PM »
I am holding a Cox TD .09 and a Cox TD .15 in my hands right now.  Neither has the "standard" glow heads but have after market glow plug adapter heads.  So, I will measure to the accuracy of my eyeball from the mounting lug to the top of the black cylinder head fins (not part of the plug adapter).   the accuracy is probably +/- 1/32"

The .09 measures 1 7/16".

The .15 measures 1 3/4".

It looks like you have the .09.

Keith
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 11:31:05 AM by Trostle »

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2021, 10:13:42 AM »
Keith,

I have to ask for clarification on your note below. Do you mean from the top of the mounting lug or from the bottom of the lug where it attaches to the plywood doubler?  My engine measures 1.5 inches from the bottom of the lug to the top of the black fins and 1/3/8" from the top to the end of the fins, all dimensions being within 1/32". No where do I see the 1 3/4" dimension coming into play here, it's most probably the .09 size engine.

"from the mounting lug to the top of the black cylinder head fins"

Now, what is the vent port on the side of the housing below the venturi? I read where this can be tapped as an option for pressure?? Is this to pressure a tank? How was this used? There is a line attached to the port which would appear to have reached a tank directly behind the engine.

Steve

Offline Trostle

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3396
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2021, 11:52:23 AM »
Steve,

Good question.  I should have been more clear.

The measurements I gave were from the bottom of the mounting lugs to the top of the cylinder black fins.  As mentioned before, this is to the top of the cylinder fins, not any of the fins of the screw-on glow plug or any screw-on glow plug adapter.

You definitely have a Cox .09.

That small "vent" on the side of the shaft housing is for a pressure tap.  You have to drill through the housing (after removing the shaft).  You probably do not want to use anything larger than a #66 drill.  Then, connect that to your tank pressure line.  Maybe some of the Cox performance guys will have something more to say about the size of that drill.

Keith

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2021, 05:34:33 PM »
Keith,

I wonder how the Cox .09 will work on a Ringmaster Junior, will it be enough power? I have another with a Fox.15 on it and it moves well but I've wondered if it's a bit nose heavy. The pressure fitting appears to have been drilled already, I suppose I could cap it off, would you agree?

Steve

Offline Trostle

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3396
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2021, 06:29:00 PM »
Keith,

I wonder how the Cox .09 will work on a Ringmaster Junior, will it be enough power? I have another with a Fox.15 on it and it moves well but I've wondered if it's a bit nose heavy. The pressure fitting appears to have been drilled already, I suppose I could cap it off, would you agree?

Steve

I think the Cox .09 will be lighter than the Fox .15.  I think the Cox would be happy with a 7-3 prop.  The 8-4 prop that motorman suggested might work well.  I really have no idea if the Cox .09 would be enough for the Ringmaster Junior unless the airplane is really light.  Maybe Larry Renger could offer some good advice here.

You can easily cap off that pressure tap that is on the shaft case and have no effect on the power.

Keith

Offline Trostle

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3396
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2021, 06:33:33 PM »
I'd keep the pressure tank set up. If you have a drilled out venturi you'll need to be on pressure. Even with the stock venturi bore that leaky Cox needle valve and peripheral jet set up, pressure just works better.

8x6 is allot of prop. I have some gray Cox props for the 09, I think they are 8x4.

Motorman 8)

Steve did not mention anything about a drilled out venturi.

Keith

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 568
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2021, 01:23:25 AM »
Peter Chinn's 1962 test should give a good idea on props to use and power:

http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Cox%20Tee%20Dee%2009.html

Not bad for a pre-Schneurle design, plus lighter weight would keep the S-5 Ring Junior from being nose heavy.

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2021, 07:17:58 AM »
Is the .09 and the .15 engine wrench interchangeable?

Steve

Offline Trostle

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3396
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2021, 09:13:40 AM »
Is the .09 and the .15 engine wrench interchangeable?

Steve

No.

If you are talking about the Cox wrench that fits the glow head and the back plate, they are different sizes for the two engines.  The .15 wrench will almost work on the .09, but the .09 wrench will not fit on the .15.

The .15 wrench could be used to remove the back plate and glow head on the .09, but not well.  Care would be required to keep the tabs engaged in the notches of the back plate and the glow head on the smaller .09.   The .15 wrench will not work on the .09 nose ring.

Keith
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 10:39:36 AM by Trostle »

Offline john e. holliday

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22995
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2021, 10:12:53 AM »
Fly it on shorter lines with the .09. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2021, 07:32:21 PM »
Looks like I have to buy a .09 Cox engine wrench. Anybody ever do business with EX Model Engines? Appears I'll need some 30% nitro fuel as well, I doubt it'd run on the 10% nitro and 24% 50/50 castor/synthetic I use on my OS FP 40s.

Steve

Offline Bill Barber

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2021, 07:47:46 PM »
 I have had good luck dealing EX Model engines.
              Bill Barber
AMA 325076

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2021, 07:55:22 PM »
I attempted earlier to place an order with EX on line but their order page wouldn't allow me to get through so I sent them an email and they have since responded. I get an order out in the am.

Steve

Offline GallopingGhostler

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 568
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2021, 05:18:15 PM »
I've bought from both Ex Model Engines and Cox International, both are top notch firms.

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2021, 07:28:33 AM »
Motorman,

EX Model Engines sells what they call 1/2 A fuel 15% nitro, are they using castor or synthetic?  You're recommending 20% nitro does starting become difficult below 20%? I don't mix my fuels. I haven't looked at the Cox Int.

Steve

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2021, 08:17:37 AM »
Thanks, working on getting the .09 wrench to dismantle the engine to clean it up. I'll keep the site posted on my progress to the first run.

Steve

Offline gene poremba

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 331
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2021, 09:34:04 AM »

 Steve, check your mail box, PM sent....Gene

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2021, 07:49:56 PM »
What the procedure for removing the gold prop retainer on the .09?

Offline Dan Berry

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1105
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2021, 09:26:46 PM »
What the procedure for removing the gold prop retainer on the .09?
Pull the piston/cylinder.  Put a screw into the front . Use a vise with smooth jaws and push the crank out the back.

Offline Trostle

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3396
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2021, 10:02:47 PM »
Pull the piston/cylinder.  Put a screw into the front . Use a vise with smooth jaws and push the crank out the back.

Really?  That is really really bad advice!!

That is what the Cox wrench is for.  Take the cutout of the wrench that has the single tab/ear.  Engage that in the small hole on the aluminum front case housing and unscrew the housing from the crankcase which will push the prop driver off of the shaft.  Do not use any sort of vise which will distort the crankcase with the pressure required to do the job as you describe.

Keith

Offline Dan Berry

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1105
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2021, 10:09:16 PM »
Really?  That is really really bad advice!!

That is what the Cox wrench is for.  Take the cutout of the wrench that has the single tab/ear.  Engage that in the small hole on the aluminum front case housing and unscrew the housing from the crankcase which will push the prop driver off of the shaft.  Do not use any sort of vise which will distort the crankcase with the pressure required to do the job as you describe.

Keith
Bill Schmidt disagrees.

Offline Steve Helmick

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 10280
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2021, 12:27:18 AM »
I would suggest trying to loosen up the engine without disassembly until it became blatently obvious that wouldn't work. Remove the backplate, prop driver and carby housing if you must. I don't think the plastic front would like antifreeze/crockpot treatment. I would avoid (like hell) removing the cylinder except as a last resort.  mw~ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2021, 06:00:17 AM »
I'll keep you posted on the results, one point for sure I noted someone added was "never touch your engine with pliers".

Steve

Offline Mark Mc

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 746
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2021, 03:04:07 PM »
Engage that in the small hole on the aluminum front case housing and unscrew the housing from the crankcase which will push the prop driver off of the shaft. 

Hmmm... I've never tried this.  Maybe I will next time to see how it goes. But maybe not.  I'm not sure how this will affect the threads on the case and the collet.

I've always done it similar to how Dan says.  I just take a couple of different steps.  First, I do not use a vise. I understand that a lot of people use a vise to pushout/install the crankshaft and the driveplate, but I do not.  I use a screw that fits the crankshaft, screwed all the way in so that the screw bottoms out. I also use washers between the head of the screw and the drive plate such that there is just a small gap between the screw head and the washers.  After having removed the P/C and backplate as stated, I put the engine on a hard surface with a piece of 1/4" ply between the back of the case and the hard surface.  I then take a small brass hammer and tap the screw head.  If I've left the right amount of space between the screw head and the spacer, a couple of taps will drive the shaft down to where the screw is tight against the washers.  Then I back out the screw a half turn and tap again.  When I've driven the crankshaft out some, I unscrew the screw and remove a couple of washers, and start over.  It takes longer this way, but at no time is there more than a small gap between the screw head and the washers.  If the gap is too large, tapping the screw could cause it to bend instead of driving straight down.  Going slow and easy ensures I don't mess up anything.  Been doing it that way for as long as I can remember working on these Cox engines.   But I'm just a layman.  Maybe Larry will eventually show up and give the "official" recommendation.

As for parts, I've ordered from both Bernie at Cox International, and Matt at EX engines.  Both have excellent parts and service, and you can't go wrong with either.  I tend to use Cox International more, but that's just an irrational preference.

For fuel, the guys at the local field use 10-15% mostly in their Cox .049 and .09 engines, but I think that's more due to availability than anything else.  The .049's run on 10%, but I don't think the engine is particularly happy with that.  The .09's are less finicky with the 10%.  A .15 should be even less so.  At least, I hope so, as I plan on using 10% on my Medallion .15 when I take the Akromaster out to fly.  The larger engine drinks too much fuel to use the expensive 35%.  I, personally, use 25% or 35% on my small Cox engines. If I run out, I use some doctored fuel that I have at 20% until I can source some more.  All castor would be great (especially for the smell), but half and half should be perfectly okay.  I once did an unscientific test where I took a brand new engine and ran a gallon of half and half through it, then tore the engine down to see if there were any adverse results.  That was when Hobbico came out with their new half and half Cox Superfuel a few years ago.

Sorry to ramble on so much.  Hope you got something out of this.  Again, this is just what I do.  I'm no expert here.

Mark

Offline Dan Berry

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1105
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2021, 04:41:31 PM »
Recently I had occasion to pull the prop driver off of a 020. The collet wasn't up to the job, the driver was really stuck. I called Bill and he told me the technique with the vise. You're only moving things 1/8" or so before it's loose.

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4060
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2021, 08:58:38 PM »
Mark has the correct approach. Do it his way.

The .09 should run forever on 15/10/10 fuel if you keep it out of the dirt. Especially takeoffs from a dirt field. It swirls into the engine and wipes it out.

Cox ran a Tee Dee .049 for over 400 hours in a clean environment as a durability test. Fox gave up after burning 55 gallons of fuel through a Fox stunt 35. If the fuel has adequate oil, metal never touches metal to cause wear. Dirt is the culprit. Be afraid, be very afraid. Start your engines held off the ground and only put the plane down at the last instant.  R%%%%
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Trostle

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3396
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2021, 12:48:18 AM »
Well, I learned something here about a preferred procedure to remove the prop driver from the TD shafts.  Thanks to everyone for being polite in setting me straight.

Keith

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: Identify Engine
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2021, 11:24:55 AM »
Would anyone have a PDF of the Ringmaster Junior plans with the open non sheathed wing?

Steve

Tags: