I think I've identified what we're missing....

[Scott Richlen]

Somehow PA and model airplane building and flying is not attracting the younger guys.  It's mostly just us old geezers.  Why is that?  Well, after looking at the pictures of the European Championship, the light bulb went on!

I think I know what we've been missing to attract the younger guys...

Would this bring out more Juniors and Seniors?     

[944_Jim]

If I didn't have a family, I'd defect tomorrow! My wife barely tolerates this sickne, er, obses....ahem, hobby!

[Ken Culbertson]

If I didn't have a family, I'd defect tomorrow! My wife barely tolerates this sickne, er, obses....ahem, hobby!

Maybe I am getting old and notice things that I should not even be looking at but did you see the amount of handle deflection in the second picture.?

Ken

[Gary Dowler]

Great post, Scott!  Good pictures as well. She's got a pretty well defined bicep in that one pic. Well, why not, when Ruslan is always referring to fliers as athletes. Right?    Looks like she has quite a sense of style to her flying as well.

Gary

[Dan Berry]

Short answer:
No.

[Mike Griffin]

I aint that old yet Ken.  I was not looking at her wrist, I assure you.

Mike

[frank mccune]

       Wrist? What wrist? Lol

[john e. holliday]

Hey guys we already have several young ladies here in the states.   One has been to the world champs flying stunt.  The other two compete in F2D combat.  Of course I still remember the young lady that pitted for her team in F2C racing at world champs 2004 in Muncie.  I'm still working on getting my grand daughter and her husband to flying my planes.  I've lost count of how many young ladies have flown CL.

I did notice the young lady in pics is doing ballet.

[Gerald Arana]

Maybe I am getting old and notice things that I should not even be looking at but did you see the amount of handle deflection in the second picture.?

Ken

What handle Ken?   

Jerry

[Russell Bond]

Her name is Никол Павлова which translates to Nikola Pavlova - In the results it shows she is a Bulgarian junior.

[Brett Buck]

Hey guys we already have several young ladies here in the states.   One has been to the world champs flying stunt.  The other two compete in F2D combat.  Of course I still remember the young lady that pitted for her team in F2C racing at world champs 2004 in Muncie.  I'm still working on getting my grand daughter and her husband to flying my planes.  I've lost count of how many young ladies have flown CL.

      With only a tiny handful actually pursuing it or taking it seriously. After 90-ish years of model airplane as a hobby the way we understand it, you can count the number of girls or women who have pursued it seriously for more than a few months, or have been even slightly successful at it,  on the fingers of one hand. Like many things, it appears to appeal primarily to boys/men and not to girls/women. The fact that we can name virtually all of them off the tops of our heads is indicative of how rare it is.

   Just like the general popularity of modeling hobbies in the first place, this is not really a defect or or mistake - the genders are just different, and what appeals to them is different, too. The notion that we could somehow do something to change this is absurd, just like it is in any other field. Most of the attempts to make it appeal to girls have been bordering on embarrassing or naively sexist.

  Just like the larger world, where women tend toward different careers than men, naturally, and then different industries turn themselves inside-out trying to recruit women into careers they don't favor, there's nearly nothing you can do to make someone like model airplanes, if they don't figure it out themselves. It's not that we aren't presenting it properly, it's not something we are doing wrong  - it's a tiny slice of a very small and rapidly shrinking hobby world, it's going to stay that way, and that's not our fault or a failing waiting to be corrected.

   Brett

[Fredvon4]

just like it is terribly ignorant to believe any giant hi tech company, or the military, should have gender parity in their employees....very very ignorant.....but I digress ...these days there are to many genders to assign to any particular vocation or interest

[Ken Culbertson]

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME

https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/i-think-i've-identified-what-we're-missing/?action=dlattach;attach=301805;image

Ken

[Skip Chernoff]

I agree with Brett....Model Airplanes are just not their (a woman's ) thing. It would be like my wife dragging me to Bed Bath and Beyond to shop for shower curtains.....no thank you!

Regarding why there are so few young men involved. First off there are no hobby shops to wet your appetite ,Secondly,the only people who know about our hobby is us and we're a bunch of old farts....face it. Lastly, computer related activities which gives instant gratification is the way things are.

I'm sad to say this, but when WE die so does the Control Line hobby. ........PhillySkip

[Scott Richlen]

Gee guys - this  and this  are indicative of making light of the situation and having some fun laughing at ourselves.  Then some of you get all serious and depressed.  Dang!

Like Ken said: "don't try this at home"....   

[944_Jim]

Any chance the photographer videotaped this flight too? I'd love to watch...it looks like she is enjoying herself! I love the stopwatch held behind her back. This shows she isn't just playing around.

[Andre Ming]

I remember as young single guy, being very impressed with the fact that this cover featured two things that were very important to me at the time:

* Combat planes flying combat.

* A snazzy looking lady!

I later learned that was Dawn Cosmillo and that she was quite good at things C/L!

Andre

[944_Jim]

http://www.jitterbuzz.com/MAN_1967_09.html

Look 2/3rds down. Hubbahubba! Call me an old chauvenist if you wish, but I still like seeing pretty women. Let's face it, you want to watch Bulgaria-chick dancing with her plane? Or would you rather watch and old, fat, barely hairy (or mostly hairless), fart struggling to keep up with the bird? I know I won't stack against the girl...

[Air Ministry .]

Shouldnt this be in ' At The Handle ' . 

[Roy DeCamara]

I know who the guy with maroon shirt is.  Anybody else??  The young lady is Dawn Consuelo I think.  No quite sure about the last name.  I'll bet Ty knows who is wearing the maroon shirt.

[Tony Drago]

Roy
  Larry Scarinzi. Larry and Dawn use to fly together back in the day in N.J.

[Joseph Patterson]

     Ken, What handle!?
         Doug

[chris perkins]

Somehow PA and model airplane building and flying is not attracting the younger guys.  It's mostly just us old geezers.  Why is that?  Well, after looking at the pictures of the European Championship, the light bulb went on!

I think I know what we've been missing to attract the younger guys...

Would this bring out more Juniors and Seniors?     

Glad too see they are still making Pretty Girls.
 It's always a pleasure to see them

[TDM]

If I didn't have a family, I'd defect tomorrow! My wife barely tolerates this sickne, er, obses....ahem, hobby!

I know precisely how you feel. Sorry to hear that. What will make it sweet is to get my son to come with me flying.

[FLOYD CARTER]

Some years ago, my daughter and her son visited, and we all went to the flying field so I could show off my stunting ability!  As fate would have it, my engine stopped at the very top of the circle, and the plane (an RSM P-51) came straight down and crashed into a hundred pieces.

Her comment;  "Floyd, why do you do this?"

Not a good advertisement for model planes.  Women don't understand why we would spend many hours building a plane only to watch it crash.

[Ken Culbertson]

Women don't understand why we would spend many hours building a plane.  only to watch it crash.

[Tom Vieira]

yeah... cuz the above comments would welcome a new girl/woman in to the sport...

glad my niece's mom doesn't come on here!

[Bob Hunt]

I had the somewhat dubious distinction of losing to Dawn almost every week when we competed against each other as seniors in Stunt on the East Coast. She was a very good and serious flier, and she was also a very nice, friendly young lady. She was not the least bit stuck up about her success. We had her and her family up for a barbecue after one local meet around 1966 or '67. Her dad was an ominous looking guy, but when you got to know him he was a really nice person. I guess he was always on the guard for suitors...

I spoke with Dawn a few years back. She is now a grandmother. She said that she really enjoyed the flying, but other things in life took her away from it. Her brother still flies RC in Florida.

Later - Bob 

[Brett Buck]

yeah... cuz the above comments would welcome a new girl/woman in to the sport...

glad my niece's mom doesn't come on here!

    No kidding. I think it's mostly innocent cluelessness, but this sort of thing dominates the attempts I have seen to "recruit" girls. Again, I don't think anyone really means anything negative by it. But it's got to be off-putting to many girls/women, particularly these days.

     Of course, it's one thing if a woman comes out to fly model airplane in order to elicit male attention - which she will certainly get! It's another entirely if they just want to fly model airplanes and end up being everyone's new favorite supermodel, with a bunch of old farts ogling her. Most of the people who will stick with it are probably the latter, and if you don't like or appreciate the stares, it's not going to be much fun. The line between "flattering" and "creepy" is very thin.

   A lot of the "recruiting" of girls is explictly pandering or condescending, like giving a girl a Delta Dart and painting it pink and adding pony stickers and glitter. Anyone actually interested in learning about model airplanes is going to see that for exactly what it is.

    Brett

[Brett Buck]

Her dad was an ominous looking guy, but when you got to know him he was a really nice person. I guess he was always on the guard for suitors...

   Look what happens! Can you blame him?  There are a couple of guys, again, probably innocent enough, that I wouldn't want within 100 yards of any (hypothetical) duaghter or granddaughter of mine, because they don't know where to draw the line.

    Brett

[Steve Helmick]

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME

https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/i-think-i've-identified-what-we're-missing/?action=dlattach;attach=301805;image

Ken

First thing I thought when I saw that picture: "She needs a new coach!" I would not recommend that stance to anybody for any maneuver, even if she's doing outside triangles at the end of the flight.    Steve

[jose modesto]

I met her at the 2018 worlds
She is a real good stunt pilot
To my surprise while watching team race she was the pit man ( lady)

She also taps her left foot for timing while flying the horizontal square eight

To tap it all saw her at the combat circles
She is the teal deal


Jose modesto

[Shorts,David]

Just my two (and a half) cents. Never start a girl on an IC plane. The girl I know in China who flies competitively only does electric. My daughters were enjoying flying for fun until the first time I had them fly a .15 powered akromaster, and  my daughter was in tears after launching my ST .51 from the smoke and noise.  That info may never matter to most of you, but if it does come up, let her fly a small electric first to see if she likes it.

You know the street goes both ways. Not too many shirtless firefighter type pilots...

And Brett's definitely right, thin line between attention and being creepy. Someday I'll figure it out.

David

[Ken Culbertson]

First thing I thought when I saw that picture: "She needs a new coach!" I would not recommend that stance to anybody for any maneuver, even if she's doing outside triangles at the end of the flight.    Steve

Something about that stance has been "bothering" since I saw it.  It just struck me.  That is the position you would be in half way through a marching standing "about face".  From that position she could rotate 180 degrees with out moving her feet.  Now where do we rotate 180 degrees in the pattern?  My biggest problem in the RWO is hitting the other side of the circle 180 from where I start it.  That move puts you facing the 2nd corner exactly 180.

I am willing to bet she has some dance or military training.  Maybe we are the ones who need a new coach!  Think she is available?

Ken

[Tony Drago]

Some Ballet.

[GERALD WIMMER]

Hello It is a careful balance needed between encouraging girl friends, wives or daughters to fly and putting them off. My wife has been flying control line for around 25 years and still enjoys flying as a relaxing past-time but will not enter contests generally having been put off for various reasons. She prefers to fly with friends in a club setting or at home with family, where she does not get bothered by well meaning fellow modellers full with advice. She used to build her own models (till our sons were born anyway) and always prefers glow engines to electric (she did build a electric R/C model years ago but found it boring) and actually seems to enjoy diesel engines, smell and all, as part of the overall fun . Have many video's of her flying on my youtube channel , will add one of her flying combat against me latter too.
Picture of her with her Goldberg Shoestring and she choose the colours and decals herself!

Regards Gerald

[Shorts,David]

Something about that stance has been "bothering" since I saw it.  It just struck me.  That is the position you would be in half way through a marching standing "about face".  From that position she could rotate 180 degrees with out moving her feet.  Now where do we rotate 180 degrees in the pattern?  My biggest problem in the RWO is hitting the other side of the circle 180 from where I start it.  That move puts you facing the 2nd corner exactly 180.

I am willing to bet she has some dance or military training.  Maybe we are the ones who need a new coach!  Think she is available?

Ken

As a lefty I wind up as far as possible to do the RWO without moving my feet, but I've done years of marching. This definitely may be worth trying an about face and back again. I'll try it tomorrow a few times without the plane first.

[Jared Hays]

Wife material right there

[Ken Culbertson]

As a lefty I wind up as far as possible to do the RWO without moving my feet, but I've done years of marching. This definitely may be worth trying an about face and back again. I'll try it tomorrow a few times without the plane first.

Only problem may be the shoes.  I have tried it "dry" and it works if you do in when the plane is overhead and you can keep your arm straight.  Probably won't change but it will explain that position.  When I tried it "dry" it placed me exactly 180 which is my biggest problem.  If she has any dance she can probably do that on her toes which would make a good pivot.  Unfortunately I don't.  Leather bottom shoes slide easily, rubber bottoms don't.

Cheers - Ken

[944_Jim]

Mr. Wimmer,
Please let us know when you post the format video. I would.like to show my wife. She asked what combat was, and when I explained it, her eyebrows went up!
It may be the hook I need to bring her in.

[944_Jim]

First point...not necessarily for girls only. My (then 11 yo) son liked the Cox-powered plane while and after he built it. But lost complete interest when hearing it fly, and broke down in tears trying to fly it!
He has mentioned he would possibly try again IF I provided a leckie powerplant on the next one.

Second point...ouch!

Just my two (and a half) cents. Never start a girl on an IC plane. The girl I know in China who flies competitively only does electric.....
And Brett's definitely right, thin line between attention and being creepy. Someday I'll figure it out.

David

[Tom Vieira]

my niece loves the roar of an engine!  just doesn't like the slime....

[pmackenzie]

Finally found this video, I knew it was out there somewhere. Same pilot in Landres.
I find it amazing how she only takes two steps to do each lap. It was very interesting to watch "live".

[Ted Fancher]

Maybe I am getting old and notice things that I should not even be looking at but did you see the amount of handle deflection in the second picture.?

Ken

Sure did, Ken.  If I only had her number I'd call and volunteer to "council"  her on the finer points of...um, er...never mind.  Hi Shareen!

Ted

[Ted Fancher]

      With only a tiny handful actually pursuing it or taking it seriously. After 90-ish years of model airplane as a hobby the way we understand it, you can count the number of girls or women who have pursued it seriously for more than a few months, or have been even slightly successful at it,  on the fingers of one hand. Like many things, it appears to appeal primarily to boys/men and not to girls/women. The fact that we can name virtually all of them off the tops of our heads is indicative of how rare it is.

   snip

   Brett

On the other hand  a young Marie Adamisin single hand-idly attracted a great number of young men into the hobby by simply attending the Nats with her famously fantastic family during her teen years...oh, shucks, and beyond!  They all appreciated the mystic of the moment and some learned to fly pretty good, too.  Often winning multiple big trophies.  Ahhhh. the lure of aviation!

Ted

 

[Scott Richlen]

I find it amazing how she only takes two steps to do each lap.

It's hard not to fall on your butt the first time you try to step like that.  But, it sure gives the impression of being relaxed and in control.  I note that she is careful to "set her base" for each maneuver.

[Brett Buck]

On the other hand  a young Marie Adamisin single hand-idly attracted a great number of young men into the hobby by simply attending the Nats with her famously fantastic family during her teen years...oh, shucks, and beyond!  They all appreciated the mystic of the moment and some learned to fly pretty good, too.  Often winning multiple big trophies.  Ahhhh. the lure of aviation!

   That's not exactly a counter-example, she would be one of the very few and the fact that we can probably name all of them in the past 50-60 years in a few seconds was precisely my point. And, with all her brothers and Big Art himself around, she probably felt pretty comfortable and didn't have to concern herself too much with the (again, mostly innocent) weird old guys who don't know know when they are going overboard.

    And, just to be entirely clear, there's absolutely no reason that just about any girl/woman probably *couldn't* compete even-up with any of the guys. While CL in general and stunt and combat in particular probably require the most physical skill of any modeling event, it's certainly not something where men's physical size would be of tremendous help, or generally smaller women would be at any signifcant handicap. Fine motor control and keeping your concentration under stressful situations are not really gender-specific, and building, finishing, trimming are clearly something anyone can learn, if they are sufficiently motivated. In some ways, particularly fine motor control, you might expect women to have an advantage, if anything.

   But I have never seen, and I don't know of, any woman who had the admittedly bizarre obsession and single-mindedness - for many years to decades -  it takes to actually follow through to a nationally-competitive level. I don't think that is a flaw or a shortcoming, because in some ways, I admire them for it. I couldn't tell you for sure why *I* find it so endlessly fascinating, and I probably have a better handle on it than most people.

     Brett

[Larry Wong]

It seams to me that the time has changed even for young boys, as I remember when I was flying in WAM we had more girls flying an even married some of the guys, they flew vary good in all class, Napa had a girl that flew Speed, and was good , often beat the guys , Carrier had a husband and wife team , and she was the one to beat , alameda had 2 girls that flew stunt. so there was other in California  and they flew at the Nat's ,I'm sure that modeling does not rank as well in the USA. Just like teaching United States in on the bottom . in Europe teaching is a profession Asia think more of education and skills with a different light.  Time has changed...

[944_Jim]

Pmack,

Thanks much! I'll say I stopped watching her when I saw how big the plane was. Then I was amazed just watching a pilot sling that plane all over, with absolute control. Now I know what really good squares, V-8s, triangles, CLOVERLEAFS look like. I can't do any of that...and still struggle with my puny 1/2A junk!

[GERALD WIMMER]

Mr. Wimmer,
Please let us know when you post the format video. I would.like to show my wife. She asked what combat was, and when I explained it, her eyebrows went up!
It may be the hook I need to bring her in.

Hello Jim
Here's a link to said combat video featuring my wife Alina and I, shot by one of our sons when we were mucking around at home.


Another video of her flying her Sig Skyray


Her older sister Irma is also learning to fly control line with Alina coaching her as well as other juniors

Regards Gerald

[944_Jim]

Cool!
Thanks much. Now to show my wife. Wish me luck...

[Jim Kraft]

I have been a most blessed man in that my wife has always supported  me in my hobby. I resumed flying control line again shortly after we were married, I started to fly R/C pattern competition in the late 60's, and she was my call girl. She called the pattern maneuvers while I was flying. I retired from R/C pattern in 94 as I had started flying control line again in 93, and was hooked all over again.

How many wives would hold a plane with an unmuffled Anderson Spitfire on gasoline. Mine did.

We are the last of a dying breed as far as I can see. There is something about modeling that grabs certain people and no one can explain why It is the way we are wired. I fell in love with it when I was about 5 years old watching the guys who had just come home from the war in the 40's flying ignition.

I never lost that passion for the hobby. Control line and free flight were the last of those who build and fly. I can still smell the balsa in those Scientific hollow logs I started flying control line with when you opened the box.

Things I learned that you can not learn in most hobbies. Perseverance, how to solve problems, how to engineer a better something. I spent the last 26 years of my working life as a trouble shooter for 220 miles of petroleum pipeline and four pump stations. My experience in model aviation was a great help to me.

I do not fly competition anything any more as my back problems keep me from being active. But I still love the hobby. My wife and I just celebrated our 60th wedding anniversary. We are so blessed to have  so many great memories of the people we have met through model competition. I remember many a contest where my wife would stand in the sun at 100 degree days while I flew. She has been a keeper from day one. Now her knees and allergies keep her in doors most of the time. 

So we had our fun in the sun, and some great memories. I am forever grateful for this hobby and the joy it has brought me that not many can know unless they have been involved in it.

[Dwayne]

Finally found this video, I knew it was out there somewhere. Same pilot in Landres.
I find it amazing how she only takes two steps to do each lap. It was very interesting to watch "live".

Looks very smooth and in control