Has anybody used one of these?

[Ken Culbertson]

Has anybody tried one of these Horizon/Tower Chinese clone Tac's?  I lost my Hangar 9 in a move, and I am finding out with a twin you REALLY need one.  It has more features than the Hangar 9 at roughly the same price and delivery.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/286567407035?_skw=RC+Tachometer&itmmeta=01JWBYNVATQN60VT2T5F0J1W4T&hash=item42b8bf9dbb:g:sI0AAOSwh1loJEmX&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1e51w8VGD7eWmzfr223o9wDmz1Eu7D%2BNiZ34BlXw4qCuVvlnOQ3a1CM%2Fao0bBLuJNnQvNrS%2Fv5tT%2Fzdj09fgsyPsYubUTbSzuupXgBM1JQvCviOkdGYPOlYMWumc0SN8hUjjDRQu%2FaGzD3aqNKbloBz5%2FTWj6VVM0RDrXqVrpRc9dlEnSDYWd64qmun5ldR9CFcr7S9JeYHNDWvl4YcNDUNx0hDXrf26O45%2BU2dHCii%2Bj2UewUJe1Pz4SxopzX198M2xrU4%2Fx1sF2hdVWLSlCUjMgHya%2FXmrQjElYZJhLt6hg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8i11_7iZQ

Ken

Interesting side note:  I asked the Bing AI if the Hangar 9 Tac was made in China.  In bold letters it said "NOT MADE IN CHINA". Reference 1.  So I pulled up Reference 1:

( Brand: Hangar 9 ), ( Manufacturer Part Number: HAN156 ), ( Country Of Manufacture: China, Peoples Republic Of ), ( Harmonized System Code: 8205.51.00.00 ), ( UPC: 605482501566 )

So AI is our future?

[Larry Renger]

Nothing can go wrong…go wrong…go wrong……

[Dave_Trible]

I have a couple of them.   They are OK but not what my old Hobbico/Tower unit is.   I have only one of those left working.    There aren't too many choices these days .......

Dave

[Colin McRae]

Ken, I have one of these, but not totally happy with it. Sometimes it reads fine, other times not. Maybe something I'm doing wrong. Maybe something with the optics, distance to prop?, proper backlight?, etc.

A friend of mine suggested using a short length of tubing over the lens. I'm going to try that.

But I also have a GloBee that I can use and works fine.

[Brett Buck]

Ken, I have one of these, but not totally happy with it. Sometimes it reads fine, other times not. Maybe something I'm doing wrong. Maybe something with the optics, distance to prop?, proper backlight?, etc.

A friend of mine suggested using a short length of tubing over the lens. I'm going to try that.

     That was the sort of "fix" we made to the Fromeco "TNC", which had great electronics, but poor sensor layout. the sensor was behind a supposedly "transparent to IR" window to protect it.  David got one and had some problems with it. I took one look and suggested he cut a hole in the window and put in a short length of tubing (his was about 1/2 ID, maybe a BT-5/ST-5 size rocket tube, maybe 1/2"-3/4" long) with the inside painted flat black. Instantly worked. We went back to the Fromeco people and they changed the design, but now the sensor was in the bottom of about q 3/16" ID metal tube that was shiny like a mirror inside. They though the problem was "collimation", that is, off-axis sensing. I think the problem was glint and reflections, and the evidence was that the "shiny tube" version worked better than the original, it wasn't nearly as good as the flat black rocket tube version.

    Putting a collimator tube on the different tach might or might not improve it. But it's cheap and easy and easily reversible, so worth a try.

       Brett

[Ken Culbertson]

Thanks a bunch for the quick response.  I found a Hangar 9 on Amazon Prime that will be here Friday.  Probably the same MFG as the one in the link but at least I have the assurances from the best AI can offer that it is not Made in China. .   I don't want to repeat the panic attack that followed hitting my wake with the outboard running faster than the inboard.  Interesting however is that it seems to fly better in level flight and simple rounds that way but anything unusual or a tight corner and it bites you. 

Ken

You know the one thing that I love about electric is that most of the time you can hear what they are saying about you since everyone is used to talking over the IC noise!   

[Colin McRae]

Thanks a bunch for the quick response.  I found a Hangar 9 on Amazon Prime that will be here Friday.

As I mentioned I have a G.T Power RC tach that is of similar design to the Hanger 9. It was reading erratically now and then so I tried a short length of 1/4" black shrink wrap tube on the lens. It is now reading fine, so problem solved (for me).

The shrink wrap is not heated to shrink. The 1/4" size fit nicely and snug as is. The color is also flat black which is good.

[Doug Moon]

I have been using this since 2008. Couldn't find a TNC so I went with this and it's still working well. I keep it in the original box. Works great. I would call and make sure they have it before you order.

https://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=GPMP2500&hf_type=S&srsltid=AfmBOoqMaqDQON9kodbS7Viv_HdCJr9hNm5AJNWgjKRcapF1XaUtmJqi

Dont balk at the price. By the time you fart around with all the others out there and still don't get what you want you will have spent more and wasted more time.

I have gone through several of those little hanger 9 things along the way thinking it would be easier to deal with being smaller etc. The ones I got were junk and would either not work, go through batteries every week, or be extremely inconsistent.

Made in china, good luck finding cheap electronics that aren't made in china.

[pmackenzie]

I have been using this since 2008. Couldn't find a TNC so I went with this and it's still working well. I keep it in the original box. Works great. I would call and make sure they have it before you order.

https://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=GPMP2500&hf_type=S&srsltid=AfmBOoqMaqDQON9kodbS7Viv_HdCJr9hNm5AJNWgjKRcapF1XaUtmJqi

Dont balk at the price. By the time you fart around with all the others out there and still don't get what you want you will have spent more and wasted more time.

I have gone through several of those little hanger 9 things along the way thinking it would be easier to deal with being smaller etc. The ones I got were junk and would either not work, go through batteries every week, or be extremely inconsistent.

Made in china, good luck finding cheap electronics that aren't made in china.

If you click on the little black circle in the "Stock" column it says "Discontinued, not available".
Great hobbies web site is good in this regard: it shows stock status for both on-line and in-store for all its locations.

[Mike Greb]

If you have an Apple Phone, there is an audio tach app called "engine rpm" that works well.  A neat feature is that it has a logging function that is useful for doing engine work.  Also nice is that it doesn't depend on light and does not need to be so close to the prop to work.

[Brett Buck]

If you have an Apple Phone, there is an audio tach app called "engine rpm" that works well.  A neat feature is that it has a logging function that is useful for doing engine work.  Also nice is that it doesn't depend on light and does not need to be so close to the prop to work.

   In fact, it works perfectly good from the center of the circle, so you can get in-flight RPM pretty easily, center because you don't have to deal with Doppler shift. It also works for youtube videos.

      We have done it a few times and found nothing that surprised us. It might surprise others - because, for example, when your 4-2 engine breaks into a 2-stroke, it is down something like 200-500 RPM *slower* that level flight where it was 4-stroking, and in some cases it is blubbery rich and running 500 rpm *more* than level flight speed.

     Brett

[Martin Quartim]

   In fact, it works perfectly good from the center of the circle, so you can get in-flight RPM pretty easily, center because you don't have to deal with Doppler shift. It also works for youtube videos.

      We have done it a few times and found nothing that surprised us. It might surprise others - because, for example, when your 4-2 engine breaks into a 2-stroke, it is down something like 200-500 RPM *slower* that level flight where it was 4-stroking, and in some cases it is blubbery rich and running 500 rpm *more* than level flight speed.

     Brett

yes! I have felt the loss of rpm and speed in a particular model/engine running 4-2-4 and it ran much better in 2-2-2.  But later the engine head was replaced with a higher compression one and it seems it worked fine in 4-2-4.

[Brett Buck]

yes! I have felt the loss of rpm and speed in a particular model/engine running 4-2-4 and it ran much better in 2-2-2.  But later the engine head was replaced with a higher compression one and it seems it worked fine in 4-2-4.

  My point was not quite that - it's not faster because it went into a 2-stroke, it is in a 2-stroke because it's slower (and the converse, it goes into 4-stroke because its faster). The cause and effect is backwards from what "common knowledge" would have you believe.

   Brett

[rich malik]

check your PM.

[Motorman]

If you have an Apple Phone, there is an audio tach app called "engine rpm" that works well.   Also nice is that it doesn't depend on light and does not need to be so close to the prop to work.

If you have it set on 2 stroke and the engine is 4 stroking does it read half the rpm?

MM

[GERALD WIMMER]

  My point was not quite that - it's not faster because it went into a 2-stroke, it is in a 2-stroke because it's slower (and the converse, it goes into 4-stroke because its faster). The cause and effect is backwards from what "common knowledge" would have you believe.

   Brett

Hi Brett Is this because when very rich four stroking it misses a cycle but is running a lean four cycle 'fast' and then if leaner switches to two stroke mode it is now no longer missing but now running a slow two stroke very rich and slowly?

Thanks
Gerald

[Lauri Malila]

[quote author=Brett Buck
      We have done it a few times and found nothing that surprised us. It might surprise others - because, for example, when your 4-2 engine breaks into a 2-stroke, it is down something like 200-500 RPM *slower* that level flight where it was 4-stroking, and in some cases it is blubbery rich and running 500 rpm *more* than level flight speed.

     Brett
[/quote]

That’s absolutely not always the case, a well set Retro, Stalker or even ST will increase the RPM when it shifts to 2-stroke from 4-stroke. Usually about 200rpm. That has been tested many times.
I saw the same drop when experimenting with Schnuerle scavengings, it was more difficult to have a reliable & positive shift.
But with big engines it’s not a problem as there is power, and you’ll need the more constant ”2-stroke mode” during maneuvering, rather than a blubbery rich 4-stroke even when the 4-stroking is capable to deliver enough power.
I think the reasons are, that modern Schnuerle engines that are de-tuned for stunt, quickly loose their scavenging efficiency & stability when operated below the ideal power range. What determines the power and stability is mainly the scavenging & port cross area, and especially with big engines it is very difficult to design a schnuerle scavenging that suits our needs.
Another thing that has an enormous effect in 2-4 shift is the piston/cylinder fits & alloying. In general;
-Higher Si% in piston = more aggressive shift
-More cylider conicity = more aggressive shift
It’s quite complicated.

[Motorman]

An engine that's 4 stroking will have more torque in that rpm range. when it breaks into a 2 stroke the torque drops out so there is less HP until the rpm comes up into a higher range. Generally speaking of course.

MM

[Brett Buck]

An engine that's 4 stroking will have more torque in that rpm range. when it breaks into a 2 stroke the torque drops out so there is less HP until the rpm comes up into a higher range. Generally speaking of course.

   Sort of. What is definitely true is that each individual firing in a 4-stroke is more energetic than a 2-stroke at essentially the same mixture and rpm. So, the peak torque during the firing rev is substantially higher when 4-stroking than 2-stroking. This is more than compensated by the fact that when 2-stroking, it fires twice as often. So the measured torque and horsepower is generally higher in a 2 than in a 4. How much more if a function of a lot of other things.

    This is a finding from the rather remarkable paper by Scott Bair, "THE TWO-CYCLE STUNT ENGINE", wherein the cylinder pressure is measured during operation.

To summarize, when a stunt engine is four-cycling there is a misfire on alternate revolutions. However, the peak pressure when the cylinder fires while four-cycling is about 50% higher than when two-cycling. This should be interpreted as meaning that a good portion of the charge is retained (not ejected from the exhaust port) after the misfire and is added to the charge that will burn during the next revolution.

   Integrating over two full revs gives you substantially more torque/HP when it is 2-stroking than 4-stroking.

     What happens *in flight* when it goes from a 4 to a 2 is more complex - since the engine doesn't just change modes while keeping everything the same as in the test. As measured, the engine goes into a 2-stroke when the load on the engine has dragged the RPM lower enough for engine to fire on a overly-rich charge for level flight load conditions (due to thermal effects,  another observation by Bair:

This may be the explanation for why a two-stroke engine will four-cycle with a rich mixture. The rich mixture cools the head and glow plug and a fuel and air charge that is diluted by the exhaust that has not been swept away will not fire. But, on the next revolution more fuel and air mixture are added raising the concentration of combustible material to where ignition can occur. If the engine temperature increases, either by leaning the mixture or by loading the engine, even the diluted charge will fire and the engine two-cycles.

    The RPM when it finally breaks into a 2, and how much torque difference there might be between the two modes is a function of other engine parameters including the compression ratio.


    Brett

[Rusty]

Has anybody tried one of these Horizon/Tower Chinese clone Tac's?  I lost my Hangar 9 in a move, and I am finding out with a twin you REALLY need one.  It has more features than the Hangar 9 at roughly the same price and delivery.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/286567407035?_skw=RC+Tachometer&itmmeta=01JWBYNVATQN60VT2T5F0J1W4T&hash=item42b8bf9dbb:g:sI0AAOSwh1loJEmX&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1e51w8VGD7eWmzfr223o9wDmz1Eu7D%2BNiZ34BlXw4qCuVvlnOQ3a1CM%2Fao0bBLuJNnQvNrS%2Fv5tT%2Fzdj09fgsyPsYubUTbSzuupXgBM1JQvCviOkdGYPOlYMWumc0SN8hUjjDRQu%2FaGzD3aqNKbloBz5%2FTWj6VVM0RDrXqVrpRc9dlEnSDYWd64qmun5ldR9CFcr7S9JeYHNDWvl4YcNDUNx0hDXrf26O45%2BU2dHCii%2Bj2UewUJe1Pz4SxopzX198M2xrU4%2Fx1sF2hdVWLSlCUjMgHya%2FXmrQjElYZJhLt6hg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8i11_7iZQ

Ken

Interesting side note:  I asked the Bing AI if the Hangar 9 Tac was made in China.  In bold letters it said "NOT MADE IN CHINA". Reference 1.  So I pulled up Reference 1:

( Brand: Hangar 9 ), ( Manufacturer Part Number: HAN156 ), ( Country Of Manufacture: China, Peoples Republic Of ), ( Harmonized System Code: 8205.51.00.00 ), ( UPC: 605482501566 )

So AI is our future?

I was taught your ears are the best tach combined with properly adjusting the NV.  Listening to what changes when you adjust the NV. 

[Ken Culbertson]

I was taught your ears are the best tach combined with properly adjusting the NV.  Listening to what changes when you adjust the NV. 

Electric, no way you can even adjust it once it is running and every prop sounds different, in fact that is all you hear.

Ken