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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Paul Taylor on April 05, 2010, 07:54:41 PM
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Would this make a good gun for painting our models.
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=91011
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Paul,
If you do a search on Al Rabe's posts you'll find he uses a Harbor Frieght HVLP gun, That's High Volume Low Pressure. I can't remember the model number but I'm sure its here somewhere.
And thanks for your by-lines, I think they're great!
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Would this make a good gun for painting our models.
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=91011
Paul,
I am no expert, but this gun looks a little big for most of our use. 1 qt cup is pretty big and 1.7mm nozzle I think is too. I use the Sharp Finex 1000 mini gun with 1 mm nozzle and have been very pleased.
http://www.spraygunworld.com/products/Sharpe/Sharpe%20Finex%201000.html
Jim
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You can get the Sharpe Finex 1000 on the bay for a decent price. I bought one local for a lot more than this. This is probably one of the best you can get. I have a Harbor Freight and am moving up to something better. It was OK to start with but I am not satisfied with it. Finishing a model scares me, I need all the help I can get here. LL~
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220580499815&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT
"Billy G" #^
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Paul, HF has a smaller version of the detail gun. I got mine when it was on sale. Still learning with it. My first was a little airbrush outfit I got back in the 60's. The litle compressor finally called it quits in the 90's and had to be replaced. As with any thing, you can spend as much as you want or as little. It takes setting the stuff up and getting used to it. Which is called practice and more practice. Of course a lot of patience also. It amazes me how quick some of our people pick up on the finishing of a plane. Anyway go with what you think you can afford and practice. H^^
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Paul,
Search in the finishing forum. There has been a lot of discussion on spray guns. You can spend as little or as much as you want. The more you spend on a gun, generally, the less you have to mess with it and the more consistent the results. I'm currently using 3 guns.
-A Harbor Freight gun as you describe for primer. Primer is tough on guns and I don't want to spend a bunch on a primer gun.
-A Finex 1000 mini-gun for color (was using a DeVilbiss gun for this until I managed to break cup and haven't been able to fine a replacement).
-A Sata Mini-Jet for clear coat. Medium high end gun that is very, very easy to use.
I find it easier to have two guns for color and clear. Less surprises.
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Hi Paul; I now have to HF guns and love them. The one your looking at is a bit big for our models, I have the hvlp detail gun: http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=92126&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName= (http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=92126&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=) and the larger http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=47016&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName= (http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=47016&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=)
The smaller gun has a 4 ounce cup which is really big enough. I might have to refill if I'm shooting the entire plane, so I mix what I think I'll need and keep it handy in a jar.
I'm just learning to use them, but so far, I think they do an excellent job. I watched the sales and have invested only about $25 bucks for both. I think as I learn the art of spray painting that the guns will be just fine.
Brian
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I have two HF guns and have never used either because I am clueless about how to clean them. Can someone please detail the cleaning method for dope and epoxy paints? I really would like to use them on the plane currently under construction.
Andy
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I put a few ounces of thinner (Butyrate or Nitrate, depending) in the cup and spray it until the mist is clear. Then I take the nozel off and clean with the supplied brush and a rag. The act of spraying the thinner through seems to do 95% of the work. Then of course, wipe out/off the cup and gun. I haven't used them all that much, but they still look new.
Brian
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Andy, myself I use acetone for a cleaner. It is mucho cheaper than dope/paint thinner. So far no bad results from color to color. Even the two part cler get the acetone treatment before it cures. H^^
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Two things:
With guns, you get what you pay for. A cheap Harbor Freight gun is just that: cheap. The tolerances are widely different between guns. You might get a decent one or you might not. It's kinda like buying an OS 46LA. Some are really good engines, others are junk. It just depends (though I think OS's quality control is probably a lot better than they guys making guns for Harbor Freight). The materials in the gun are cheap and so, they tend to wear out much faster. I have to replace my cheap Harbor Freight gun that I use for primer about every 5 or 6 planes because the seals start leaking and the spray pattern starts going wonky. They can be OK guns and depending on your standards, work fine. But they will need to be replaced periodically and you again have the problem of "was this gun made at 4:30pm on Friday", quality control issue. I'm not bad mouthing them. They are what they are and can work OK. But they are a lot more work to get them to spray well and and take constant adjustment and attention to keep them working. A Finex gun, for instance, has spectacularly better quality control and materials. They work pretty well overall and take a lot less maintenance and adjustment. They are much more consistent in what you get and so you have less surprises. Stepping up to something like a Sata or Iwata, you are talking high medium to very high quality guns and again get a big jump in quality of fit and tolerance and enormous reduction in the amount of attention the gun needs to work well. They are just more consistent and predictable. My Sata gun shoots the same, time after time and is utterly predictable. It works the same today as it did a couple of years ago when I bought it. And a good Sata or Iwata gun, if taken care of, will last a lifetime.
Just stuff to think about. There is nothing at all wrong with buying a Harbor Freight gun for $25. But you get what you pay for.
On cleaning: Everybody will have a different opinion on this. One of the reasons I use one gun for color and another for clear is that no matter how well you clean a gun, sooner or later you'll be spraying clear and some glop of color that you were sure wasn't there will plop out and Murphy says it will happen on the top of the plane and probably right in the center of the canopy. There are a lot of nooks and crannies in the internal paint passages in a spray gun. Color can get caught in there no matter how well you clean it. It' doesn't happen often, but it happens.
Usually, I give guns a quick cleaning between applications of color or clear while shooting a plane. This is just wiping out the cup (when changing colors or whatever), shooting thinner through the gun, taking the nozzle off and giving it a quick cleaning and pulling the needle and wiping it off with a soft rag (be very careful with the needle - imperfections or, God forbid, bending it is death to a gun). When I'm done with the paint job and the guns are going to be stored for a bit, I take them completely apart and gently clear and clean all the parts. I swab the inside of the gun with a cleaning cloth or pipe cleaner soaked in thinner and soak the nozzle and cap in thinner for a bit. Clean and polish the needle with a soft cloth (I use microfiber cloths that I get from the optometrist) and lube the seals (if required - depends on the gun). then reassemble the gun and put it in the case or whatever. It a good idea to clear your air lines at this time and empty de-humidifiers or other filters in the line and make sure your compressor is cleared of water. I have an upright compressor and usually have to empty a quart of water out of the bottom when done with a spray job. I leave both the drain valve and the air supply nipple open between painting jobs to allow airflow and keep things dry.
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I have used the one that Brian showed a lot, infact I bought five of them when they were on sale for $9.95. Only thing that I would like on them is a plastic cup but thay are still ok. I figured at that price five of them would last a long time. Like Randy I use one only for clear.
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=92126&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=
Phil
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Paul
Try www.tcpglobal.com I buy most my paint equipment from here. They sell paint
guns or airbrushes in all price ranges. (cheap>>>highdollar). Buy something in
the middle and you will be happier.
Bryan y1
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Thanks guys. As always a lot of info. I will keep looking for a deal. I am not ready to paint anything any time soon. I will tuck this thread away.
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I have used the one that Brian showed a lot, infact I bought five of them when they were on sale for $9.95. Only thing that I would like on them is a plastic cup but thay are still ok. I figured at that price five of them would last a long time. Like Randy I use one only for clear.
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=92126&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=
Phil
So far I have sprayed white, red, blue and clear from the same gun . . . but maybe that separate gun for clear only is not a bad idea. :)!
Randy, you are producing fine fine 20 point planes for sure y1; I'm producing 10 foot airplanes . . . maybe that's why I'm happy with the HF guns ;D. At age 67 I'm not likely to get much better . . . at least that's what my wife says mw~.
I'm hoping, and looking forward to meeting you, and a lot of others from this forum at the Northwest Regionals.
Brian
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Well I came in kinda late on ths thread, and Randy pretty much summed up my feelings, no small wonder as we have had many conversations about guns, and paint.
I am a staunch advocate of buying the best tool you can afford. The money you spend when depreciated over the life of the tool will not amount to much. and bottom line, even if you spend 300 bucks on a SATA , if your anything like a lot of guys, you have 100 hours or better in construction of your airframe, . If you only used the gun ONE time on ONE airplane, thats still only 3 bucks an hour for investment, to me it seems silly to shortcut the single most important step of getting a good finish, that being equipment,, ( or for that matter, myfavorite whipping subject,, thinner, sure, save 5 bucks on thinner,, its only your 100 hours of labor your putting a chance on,, ) ** yes that was sarcastic Martha**
Ok back on task,,,, I pretty much do what Randy does, I have a moderate priced gun that I use for primers, however, I only have one Sata Minijet, so it sprays color and clear, but it gets dissasembled between each task. One of the great things about gravity feed guns versus, siphon guns, they have a much lower tendancy to trap pigments and pearls in the gun..
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Randy and Mark are very correct, to a degree. You do get "what you pay for". The question then becomes; what are you trying to get? There is a point of diminishing return on any investment for a product. A Sata spray gun costs $300.00, or 30 times that of a HF gun. For me, I would not-could not realize a 30% increase in result, not at my skill level. I think most of us realize this, and will buy what will satisfy their need. For me, the 10 buck gun will do just fine for probably the next few planes. If at that point if I see the gun holding me back, then I'll start buttering up wifie poo . . . or practice saying "this gun? Been in the shop for years" ;D
When my Chipmonk makes it's grand debut at the Northwest Regional . . . look from about 10 feet away, it will look good! y1
Brian
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Brian,
while in theory I see your point, let me make a counter point if I may
if you are trying to learn the pattern, and take the philosophy that " I will fly this ringmaster with a fox 35 until I can fly the pattern at an advanced level. " you will struggle mightly to reach that level because you dont know what you are actually fighting against. If on the other hand, Paul Walker would hand you a fully trimmed IMpact ready to fly, show you how to set the motor for proper run, and let you fly it, your flying would begin to improve immediatly. your tools should ALWAYS exceed your ability to use them by a significant margin. ESPECIALLY if you dont have the skill . great equipment can make up for a significant amount of skill,, actually thats misleading. how about this aproach instead,,, It takes a significant amount of skill and knowledge to know how to overcome inferior equipment,,
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OH, and looking forward to seeing you and your chipp at the regionals,,
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Sometimes it is hard to realize just how inferior an inferior tool is until you use a better one. My wife's brother, a long time welder, once told me that some of the cheap welding machines on the market these days can make a pretty good welder think he can't weld at all. I believe in good tools.
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When using the HF gun it always felt like it was clumsy. I could not handle it to any great degree of accuracy. I now have a Finex 1000 ( at Marks suggestion ) and although I have not used it yet, it feels like a third hand. It just belongs there. I am not sure about the spray guns but a lot od HF stuff is made in India. Quite frankly there is no quality control there. That's why you might get a good one and might not.
OK you planked down your 30 bucke for a HF gun. You use it and now have worn it out amd plank down another 30 bucks to replace it. See where I'm going with this? Had you have paid 100 bucks in the first place for a Finex --- well you know the rest of the story.
Bottom line Paul is what you can afford.
"Billy G" y1
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Great thread; from someone who has only used a brush on his model projects, it makes me want to try spraying a finish or two. What special arrangements do you use if you want to use a spray gun in the basement H^^during the winter? Do you need to construct a spray both and vent it to the outside? Do you only spray in the garage during good weather? How do you do it without becoming devorced?
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Mike, no matter what material you use for finish, make sure you have fresh air. If I spray in the doorway, I have a fan set up to blow the air out the door or set in the door to pull the air out. Usually I wait for a calm day and warm temps to spray outdoors. If there is a breeze I spray so the breeze moves the material away from me. Never spray in a closed room unless it is a paint stall and body suit with fresh air respirator. H^^
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Amen on the ventilation. A long time ago I was able to use a water shield spray booth at a friends factory on the weekends, what a delight! And I've found the effect on me from the solvents in the paint seems to be accumulative. I now MUST wear a good filter mask when painting anything, otherwise I end up sneezing and coughing.
The overspray gets on everything. I put a plastic tarp down on my garage floor or ground and paint with the door open or do it outside if the wind will let me.
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Ok then it sounds like a good weather garage activity to me. I do have an HVLP outfit and a mask that I used to paint my Minimax with and it came out fine using the polycoat system. I could only work when the weather was in a suitable temperature zone. So I guess I'll save the spray painting for my better models cause we have a lot of winter up here. y1
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That's my next project. A spray booth. Now that would be a luxury beyond measure.
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Randy,
are you putting a Bat filter in with the dust filters for the spray booth?
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(PE**)
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I put in a Paasche 6' spray booth in my shop. Huge motor lots of suction, it pulls everything out. I have to leave the door slightly propped open to allow enough inflow. I always wear a mask (sometimes a full face mask), but I still find that on good days, still better to do major spraying outside. Small touch up work inside is perfect with this system and this lets me do this on those rainy, cold or hot and humid days. So far, no problem with bats ;D
Jim
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Bill Gruby said: "OK you planked down your 30 bucke for a HF gun. You use it and now have worn it out amd plank down another 30 bucks to replace it. See where I'm going with this? ".
Sounds like an ARF!
Jim,
That is a good looking JD Falcon.
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Bill Gruby said: "OK you planked down your 30 bucke for a HF gun. You use it and now have worn it out amd plank down another 30 bucks to replace it. See where I'm going with this? ".
Sounds like an ARF!
Jim,
That is a good looking JD Falcon.
Hey Tom:
That's what I call selective reading. LL~ LL~ How opn earth did you get ARF out of that statement?
"Billy G" VD~ VD~ VD~
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Bill,
Spend the money over and over and over for poor quality! Sorry, I couldn't resist it.
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Jim,
That is a good looking JD Falcon.
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Thank you Tom. You make a wonderful kit!
Jim
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Bill,
Spend the money over and over and over for poor quality! Sorry, I couldn't resist it.
And you are absolutely correct. Give that man a cigar.
"Billy G"
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I put in a Paasche 6' spray booth in my shop. Huge motor lots of suction, it pulls everything out. I have to leave the door slightly propped open to allow enough inflow. I always wear a mask (sometimes a full face mask), but I still find that on good days, still better to do major spraying outside. Small touch up work inside is perfect with this system and this lets me do this on those rainy, cold or hot and humid days. So far, no problem with bats ;D
Jim
Hey Jim,
I need to stop in and check out the shop at the cabin! That is way better then the one you have in Florida. And you don't have all those big deep sea fishing rods in your way. LL~
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WWWD?
That's "What Would Windy Do" for those of you without kids to help decode. Seriously, I see Windy used a low cost CH gun. Not suggesting other comments aren't valid. Just strikes me that one of the best finishers would use a $60 gun to get front row finishes.
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Jim,
Wait until you see the "Hobo".
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Jim,
Wait until you see the "Hobo".
Tom, can't wait. Put me down for one.
Jim
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Hey Jim,
I need to stop in and check out the shop at the cabin! That is way better then the one you have in Florida. And you don't have all those big deep sea fishing rods in your way. LL~
Paul, most of the rods are now on the boat. It's fishing time here in FL #^
Jim
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WWWD?
That's "What Would Windy Do" for those of you without kids to help decode. Seriously, I see Windy used a low cost CH gun. Not suggesting other comments aren't valid. Just strikes me that one of the best finishers would use a $60 gun to get front row finishes.
One difference is , if you use dope, you KNOW going in that you are going to cut and polish everything. I avoid polishing as much as possible, its an evil task that should not be needed,, at least not overall, but then I spray urethane clear, not dope.. so that makes some difference,,
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I would also point out that Windy has many, many, many hours spraying paint. I suspect that even if I flew the best pattern of my life, Paul Walker could still beat me flying a Ringmaster. It has to do with skill and experience. Not sure why Windy would handicap himself using inferior equipment, but it could be that he is trying to illustrate that if you are patient and don't mind a lot of fiddling, you can make an inferior gun do a decent job. Windy certainly has the skill to pull it off. Just like Paul Walker can take an inferior plane and fly a good pattern with it. It's takes more skill and experience, but it can be done.
It's as I said above, cheap spray guns are just that: cheap. They can be made to work. But it's a lot of extra effort, they don't last a long time and you are handicapping yourself. For what we do, you don't need to run out and buy a $500, top of the line Iwata gun. It's kinda cool if you can because they are ridiculously easy to use and last a lifetime, but you don't in any way need to do that. But getting a decent, mid-quality gun like the Sharpe Finex just makes life a lot easier. It's consistent, you know what to expect, it's durable and will last a long time. Predictability is a trait that is hard to ignore. It's just one less thing to have to mess around with.
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This is a great airbrush gun by Master that sprays upto 2" fan pattern.
This gun is the one i will use on my current build the Don Still Stuka.
I will post pics when i get that far.
Master Airbrush G77 $69.99 where >>>>tgpglobal.com
Keep the paint thin & lite, hope this helps a little Bryan
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Looks to be OK. Only issue will be the cup size. You'll need to refill a lot to shoot a base color.