How to ruin a perfectly good NATS trip

[Mike Haverly]

Or any day of flying.  It is a dead horse, but I thought a little more kicking might wake a few people who insist on flying with inferior equipment.  Wednesday evening during a practice session I heard "the sound", you know, the WHACK!!! followed by multiple expletives.  This happened about 20 feet from me.  Obviously, the handle was suspect at best and probably would not have passed a pull test.  My first remark was inappropriate, "when are you guys gonna learn?"  Kaz simply said, "You need to change cables every year".  Much more appropriate.  In any case, I much prefer hard point handles and this is one obvious reason.

[Matt Colan]

Or any day of flying.  It is a dead horse, but I thought a little more kicking might wake a few people who insist on flying with inferior equipment.  Wednesday evening during a practice session I heard "the sound", you know, the WHACK!!! followed by multiple expletives.  This happened about 20 feet from me.  Obviously, the handle was suspect at best and probably would not have passed a pull test.  My first remark was inappropriate, "when are you guys gonna learn?"  Kaz simply said, "You need to change cables every year".  Much more appropriate.  In any case, I much prefer hard point handles and this is one obvious reason.

That is exactly what happened to my cable handle, except it happened a couple weeks after the NATS. My cables weren't even a year old and they broke...

[Tim Wescott]

Man, I hate the feeling of letting something extremely undiplomatic escape.  Granted, it's not as bad as crashing a plane, but still.

It looks like the cable died from fatigue right at the point where it went into the handle.  I suppose that's how they all die -- that sort of thing certainly kills a lot of stranded wire in electronics that are subject to vibration.

[Howard Rush]

That's how I learned not to use a Hot Rock for stunt.  In combat, you adjust the handle frequently.  In stunt, you fly hundreds of flights with the cable in the same position.  I was able to salvage the elevators and landing gear.

[Larry Fernandez]

Man, I hate the feeling of letting something extremely undiplomatic escape.  Granted, it's not as bad as crashing a plane, but still.

It looks like the cable died from fatigue right at the point where it went into the handle.  I suppose that's how they all die -- that sort of thing certainly kills a lot of stranded wire in electronics that are subject to vibration.

And yet,so many non-believers are going to keep using cable handles. You can lead a stupid horse to water but..................

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt team

[Tim Wescott]

Actually I was thinking that if you were absolutely bound and determined to use a cable handle you could make one where the cable kind of rolled off the handle rather than bending at one spot.  In construction it'd be sort of like a pulley with really deep edges.

Hard point's probably better.

[Larry Fernandez]

Ya think?

Larry, Butttafucco Stunt Team

[Balsa Butcher]

Larry, that's harsh. I have used both cable and hard point (Ted style) and prefer cable (Kaz handle) for stunt and I ain't no stupid horse... HOWEVER, I am going to inspect and change the cables more often from now on.

[Clint Ormosen]

Larry, that's harsh. I have used both cable and hard point (Ted style) and prefer cable (Kaz handle) for stunt and I ain't no stupid horse... HOWEVER, I am going to inspect and change the cables more often from now on.

I figured Pete would  comment on this post. I know he flies with a cable handle. Not a thing wrong with cable handles. But just like any equipment it need to be inspected once and a while so things like failures don't happen. Or at least happen less often.

[Brett Buck]

Actually I was thinking that if you were absolutely bound and determined to use a cable handle you could make one where the cable kind of rolled off the handle rather than bending at one spot.  In construction it'd be sort of like a pulley with really deep edges.

   Gene Martine made some that way about 25 years ago.  I never tried one of them, it would hypothetically solve the issue (and by the way, the cable handle compliance issue). There's not much point in it now that we have something that is better.

    Brett

[FLOYD CARTER]

I've used both hard point and cable types.  For convenience and ease of adjustment, I tend to prefer my cable handle.  The cable is high quality stainless of large diameter.  I do inspect it regularly.

Floyd

[Larry Fernandez]

I've used both hard point and cable types.  For convenience and ease of adjustment, I tend to prefer my cable handle.  The cable is high quality stainless of large diameter.  I do inspect it regularly.

Floyd

Once its adjusted you should never have to screw with it again. I havent made any handle adjustments on my Crusader since 2007.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Bill Little]

Before my hiatus I was switching over to hard point handles.  Should be quite easy when I can fly again because it will almost be like starting over from scratch!

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Jim Hoffman]

Safety and reliability are improved by eliminating potential failure modes.  That was enuf to change me to hardpoints long ago.

Jim Hoffman

[Randy Cuberly]

Safety and reliability are improved by eliminating potential failure modes.  That was enuf to change me to hardpoints long ago.

Jim Hoffman

Hey,
You sound like an engineer...

Amen!

Randy Cuberly

[Garf]

I've never looked at the business end of my handle. I don't have any magnifying glasses, but I do have some fairly good cameras.

[Larry Renger]

If anyone is interested, I am developing an exponential hard point handle to replace the cable ones I designed for RSM.  You do need to get the fixture that lets you make a set of variable length clips from Jim Lee.

[Doug Knoyle]

If anyone is interested, I am developing an exponential hard point handle to replace the cable ones I designed for RSM.  You do need to get the fixture that lets you make a set of variable length clips from Jim Lee.

...and ...do you have any details?  Links info on the fixture? Variable length clips?  I searched and found nothing.

Thank you

[Tim Wescott]

...and ...do you have any details?  Links info on the fixture? Variable length clips?  I searched and found nothing.

Jim Lee calls it the Derek Moran line clip bender: http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=6425.0

The line clips aren't variable length, but the bender will make you line clips to a wide variety of lengths.  You build your plane as close to 0-0 as you can, then you trim out any little inconsistencies by using different-length line clips.  I looked at the picture and made my own clip-bender -- but it's kind of a horror, I'm sure that the one from Jim Lee is a lot better.  I can't speak to the real deal, but my bender gets you almost to a finished clip, then you have to tune it a bit with two pairs of needle-nosed pliers.  It gets better the more clips I make, though.

Randy Smith sells "Hello Kitty" line clips (why are they called that?) in a variety of lengths if you're more interested in buying and trying than in DIY: http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=16851.msg212612#msg212612.

[Steve Helmick]

"Randy Smith sells "Hello Kitty" line clips (why are they called that?) in a variety of lengths if you're more interested in buying and trying than in DIY:" http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=16851.msg212612#msg212612

The story I heard was that Randy needed some nice little ziplock bags to fit an assortment of the clips (made in Japan, I believe), and somehow got a supply of bags that had the "Hello Kitty" logo printed on them. Example below.  Steve

[Doug Knoyle]

Jim Lee calls it the Derek Moran line clip bender: http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=6425.0
<snip>
Randy Smith sells "Hello Kitty" line clips (why are they called that?) in a variety of lengths if you're more interested in buying and trying than in DIY: http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=16851.msg212612#msg212612.

Thanks Tim.

I've got some "Hello Kitty" clips until I figure out how to make my own. The Kitty clips (I call 'em Kaz clips cause that's where I think they come from - Thanks to Randy for making them easier to get!) are the only ones that do what I want them to do. I just need a bigger size range.

Thanks again

[RandySmith]

You can mix and match the clips with Sullivan clips, or any other clips you have to give you a large size difference, the HK clips are 1mm apart in sizes

Randy