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Author Topic: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??  (Read 561 times)

Offline frank mccune

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How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« on: December 06, 2018, 05:11:40 PM »
       Hi All:

       I recently purchased a used Sullivan starter that has a Southern RC battery pack mounted to it.  The batteries need charging as they are putting out 12 volts but they have very little amp capacity to turn the starter with power.  There are 10 1.2v yellow batteries wired in parallel to produce 12 volts.  May I use my 10 amp charger that I use for car batteries to recharge these batteries.  I tried it and it is putting out 13 plus volts but the needle on the gauge of the battery charger barely moves. Is this a wise and proper method to charge these batteries/ If not,, how should I recharge them?  How about using a 12 volt trickle, float, charger?

      Suggestions/comments?

                                                                                                                                                   Tia,


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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2018, 05:19:38 PM »
I'd use the trickle charger, and definitely not the auto battery charger. Oddly enough, my Sullivan starter runs on Makita 18v. battery packs. It kicks ass on 18 volts!   H^^ Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Offline Dane Martin

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2018, 05:26:21 PM »
I would advise against the automotive charger for the NiCd pack you have. The max voltage a NiCd should take (peak charge per cell) is 1.42. The automotive style chargers charge at 15-15.5 volts. The load brings the volts down. And lead acid batteries can handle more voltage without damage.
It needs to be a 12v low current charger, or a specific NiCd charger with a auto cell detect. I might have an extra one.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2018, 05:58:20 PM »
       Hi All:

       I recently purchased a used Sullivan starter that has a Southern RC battery pack mounted to it.  The batteries need charging as they are putting out 12 volts but they have very little amp capacity to turn the starter with power.  There are 10 1.2v yellow batteries wired in parallel to produce 12 volts.  May I use my 10 amp charger that I use for car batteries to recharge these batteries.  I tried it and it is putting out 13 plus volts but the needle on the gauge of the battery charger barely moves. Is this a wise and proper method to charge these batteries/ If not,, how should I recharge them?  How about using a 12 volt trickle, float, charger?

     


                  Well, I hope they are not wired in parallel because that would only give you 1.2 volts total! They should be in series to get 12 volts. There is probably a million good used R/C car battery chargers out there that can charge 10 cells, and that is the way you want to spec out the charger And are they NiCad or nickle-metal hydried? Find a charger that can do both. They should not be too expensive. Come up with the proper connector to match the starter pack and you are in business. Check your local Craig's List for possibilities also.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee


      PS to add: Your car battery charger is looking for a certain amount on internal resistance to kick in and charge, and that pack won't do that. That is one reason why they are built that way, so people won't try to charge batteries that they shouldn't with it. That is how fires get started sometimes.
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Offline TigreST

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2018, 07:24:03 PM »
I was thinking about this starter battery issue earlier in the week.  Currently (no pun intended  ;D )  I still use the ole' motorcycle battery and cable run to the Sullivan unit.  But how bout a conversion to one of these auto mini booster battery kits like the one pictured.  If it will start a diesel truck...it might do well on Super Tigre.

T
 

Tony Bagley
Ontario, Canada

Offline frank mccune

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2018, 08:15:46 PM »
      Hi Dane:

      You are correct! The batteries are indeed wired in series.  A senior moment!  What type, brand name or output am I looking for on Craig's list?  These batteries are 1.2v NiCad with a 1300ma rating.

                                                                                                                                            Be well,

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Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2018, 09:08:29 PM »
Hi Frank, You might call Sonic Tronics to see if they sell a suitable charger or else tell DAne where to send the extra one he has!

Phil Spillman

ps Sonic Tronics is located in eastern PA and can be reached at 215-635-6520 You might also call Tower Hobbies or check them out on line!
Phil Spillman

Offline Jim Mynes

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 04:42:47 AM »
If those NiCd batteries havenít been properly managed theyíre likely junk.
If you end up needing to replace them, many people use a tired old 4s LiPo that wonít fly their plane any more. Maybe one of your electrified friends might have one to donate. Lipos require proper management too.
The Makita adapter thing is cool, but Iím all invested in Milwaukee. Havenít seen an adapter for M18 batteries. Power tool batteries require less management.
I have seen the light, and itís powered by a lipo.

Offline Paul Wood

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2018, 03:55:35 PM »
I was thinking about this starter battery issue earlier in the week.  Currently (no pun intended  ;D )  I still use the ole' motorcycle battery and cable run to the Sullivan unit.  But how bout a conversion to one of these auto mini booster battery kits like the one pictured.  If it will start a diesel truck...it might do well on Super Tigre.

T

Tony,

I just purchased one of those to carry in my motorcycle baggage compartment. The first thing I did was try it on my Sullivan starter. It worked well. But, I did not work it very hard for fear of frying something in the unit. I hope to try it at the field soon, but we have not been able to fly for 3 months here in NE Texas due to a muddy field. Never seen anything like it!

Paul

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2018, 06:33:58 PM »
Why am I distrustful of a product labeled "Anti-Gravity Battery"?  D>K Steve
In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.

In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General Mattis.

Offline Fred Underwood

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2018, 08:16:40 PM »
Steve,  It is the secret to keeping electrics light weight.
Fred
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Offline TigreST

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2018, 08:29:58 PM »
Tony,

I just purchased one of those to carry in my motorcycle baggage compartment. The first thing I did was try it on my Sullivan starter. It worked well. But, I did not work it very hard for fear of frying something in the unit. I hope to try it at the field soon, but we have not been able to fly for 3 months here in NE Texas due to a muddy field. Never seen anything like it!

Paul

Paul,
When on extended tour mode on the bike my XP-10 comes for the ride too.  I bought it for just that reason, then got my wife and daughter one each.  When not touring on the bike the units in my truck console.  I've used it once on a strangers Honda Odyssey mini van.  Very cool to watch his eyes light up when his motor started from this tiny battery.  Fellow rider said this week that his boss used one 17 times on one charge over two days while he waited for a good time to change out the trucks battery which was on the way out. Chevy Colorado 5 cylinder motor.   Nice that you can charge your cell phone to if need be.
Tony Bagley
Ontario, Canada

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2018, 01:14:01 PM »
the beauty of ALL VDC driven starter motors is ...can be reversed if needed

AND...l they run well on anything from 9 VDC to 20VDC since they are a intermittent use motor

Mine is driven by 2 8.4VDC cells for 16.8 drive POWER Ar Ar AR ...all la Tim the Tool Man Taylor

My Thunder charger is over 10 years old and can charge almost all chemistry for the low low price of $29...way back then....

the NIMH packs on my starter are cheap RC car packs like $13 each and will last most of the year on one charge up...then put to sleep for the winter
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline frank mccune

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2018, 10:26:12 AM »
         Hi All:

         A few more questions re. charging ni cd batteries.

         My HD 12v battery charger for a motorcycle appears to be providing the current and voltage to charge my 12v battery pack for my Sullivan starter. A few questions though:

          The charger is putting out about 13 volts to the while connected to the battery pack that consists of 10, 1.2v 1300mah batteries connected in series.  The voltage sounds correct.  Whenever I connect the charger to the battery pack, the charging indicator lamp  glows red for about a minute and then switches to green indicating that the batteries are fully charged.  Is this correct?

          Can I continue to leave the battery charger, trickle, connected to the batteries without resulting in damage to the battery pack?

          How may I evaluate the overall condition of the battery pack?  I would like to have a battery pack that I can depend on at the flying field.  I have not done a current draw check yet to see how much current the starter motor draws.  Would this provide any useful information?

        Should I leave the charger connected all offseason or recharge once a month?

        The battery pack for the Sullivan starter was manufactured by Southern RC.  Perhaps some of you are familar with this unit.
 
        My goal for the 19 flying season is to have all unnessary wires eliminated from my starting drill. No mor flight box.


        Any suggestions and/or comments?

                                                                                                                                     Tia,
                                   
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Offline Fred Underwood

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2018, 10:50:50 AM »
On a NiCad charger, NiCad's might get to 1.5 - 1.55v under charge, depending on their condition.  As I recall, many of mine settle at about 1.35v off of the charger for a bit.  What is the cell voltage on charge, and off.  Sorry, I wasn't sure if the 13 volts is active charging, or after the charger clicks off.  Either way may not be full charge.  The auto charger may not be charging and detecting peak adequately for NiCad's.  Of course the NiCad's may not accept a full charge and need to be replaced.


When I want to see if a NiCad pack is good, I cycle it a time or two on a NiCad charger and get an actual pack capacity.  And a cycle or two may help condition the pack and raise the capacity.
Fred
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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2018, 11:26:33 AM »
You ,must never use an automotive-type charger for NiCd cells.  Those chargers are intended for lead-acid batteries, and they do not have adequate current-limiting for NiCd.

NiCd should be charged using constant-current charger.  This requires a source supply higher in voltage than the battery pack.  Then, a resistor in the charging circuit limits the maximum current available.  The resistor value is the difference in voltage between the charger and the battery pack, divided by the maximum current desired.

Most hobby chargers intended for LiPo can be set for NiCd cells.  These prevent over-current charging.
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Offline frank mccune

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2018, 02:58:53 PM »
      Hello All:

      An update concerning the process of charging of my 12v power supply to energize my Sullivan Starter.

      While using the Harley Davidson trickle charger, I read 13.49v at the output of the charger.  After charging, I measure 13.16v at the power supply batteries.   I have no idea if this is a full charge.  I must do a current measurement to determine how much current is being applied to the batteries while being charged.  What kind of current is supplied by these chargers.  Is  pulsating or a steady current.  Whetstone Bridge, Diodes etc. ?

       I used the battery charger for my Makita 12v drill batteries,  This charger indicated that the battery pack is fully charged,  A green lamp glows when the batteries are fully charged.  I hope that this indicates that indeed the batteries are fully charged.  Is charging via the Makita charger a good safe way to charge the Ni Cad batteries?

     Would an electric train transformer do me any good when attempting to charge these batteries.  I don't remember if electric trains were powered by AC or DC.  It is a variable source but will it be satisfactory?

      One more thought.  Can this 12v battery pack be recharged by connecting an auto battery to it?  The auto battery would provide 12v.  Perhaps this is all the NI-Cads need to provide close to  12v charge.


         Thoughts/Suggestions.

                                                                                                                                         Tia,

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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2018, 06:03:47 PM »
      Hello All:

      An update concerning the process of charging of my 12v power supply to energize my Sullivan Starter.

      While using the Harley Davidson trickle charger, I read 13.49v at the output of the charger.  After charging, I measure 13.16v at the power supply batteries.   I have no idea if this is a full charge.  I must do a current measurement to determine how much current is being applied to the batteries while being charged.  What kind of current is supplied by these chargers.  Is  pulsating or a steady current.  Whetstone Bridge, Diodes etc. ?

       I used the battery charger for my Makita 12v drill batteries,  This charger indicated that the battery pack is fully charged,  A green lamp glows when the batteries are fully charged.  I hope that this indicates that indeed the batteries are fully charged.  Is charging via the Makita charger a good safe way to charge the Ni Cad batteries?

     Would an electric train transformer do me any good when attempting to charge these batteries.  I don't remember if electric trains were powered by AC or DC.  It is a variable source but will it be satisfactory?

      One more thought.  Can this 12v battery pack be recharged by connecting an auto battery to it?  The auto battery would provide 12v.  Perhaps this is all the NI-Cads need to provide close to  12v charge.


         Thoughts/Suggestions.

                                                                                                                                         Tia,

                                                                                                                                         Frank McCune


        My thought and suggestion is to get a proper charger for your Nicads. Batteries have been known to blow up, catch fire, wires melt down, all sorts of bad things happen. It's not worth loosing your house or risking physical injury. Chargers for a ten cell nicad pack are all over the place. I just bought a use ACE R/C digital dual metered charger at a local swap meet for 20 bucks. A charger that can do your nicads and just about any other battery you may have won't set you back much even if you buy a new one at regular retail. And as it has already been mentioned, you do not know the condition of the battery you have. All you need is for one cell to be bad, or even reversed polarity and you'll never get a charge. I would at least take it to a buddy or a hobby shop and ask someone if they can put it on their charger to check it out. That is the best thing to do.  In short, it's not just a matter of matching voltage. All sorts of other magic voodoo goes on when you charge a Nicad.
    Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
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Offline frank mccune

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2018, 10:41:32 AM »
     Hi All:

     Would this battery charger be sufficient to be used to charge my ni cad battery pack that consists of 10, 1.2v cells to power my Sullivan starter?  The E Bay number is 273460873033.  I have no idea as to what I am looking for in the way of a charger.  Perhaps if I post a WTB charger on the Classified Section, I could find some information.  Does that sound like a good place to post?


                                                                                                                                  Tia,

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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2018, 11:27:00 AM »
     Hi All:

     Would this battery charger be sufficient to be used to charge my ni cad battery pack that consists of 10, 1.2v cells to power my Sullivan starter?  The E Bay number is 273460873033.  I have no idea as to what I am looking for in the way of a charger.  Perhaps if I post a WTB charger on the Classified Section, I could find some information.  Does that sound like a good place to post?


                                                                                                                                  Tia,

                                                                                                                                   Frank


   Hi Frank;
     Well, that is at least getting you in the ball park and certainly cheap enough! If your budget will allow, maybe look around some more and find a better brand name charger so you can be sure the quality will be better. Sitting right here, brand names escape me but I will do some research and get back. What ever charger you get, just don't charge anything un-attended, especially lipos, and especially put lipos in a fire proof bag.
     Type at you later,
      Dan McEntee
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: How to recharge batteries for Sullivan starter??
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2018, 04:07:16 PM »
Hey Frank. I found a good charger for you. I'll mail it to you, but the ebay is actually a really good deal. My friend has that one. It work's great


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