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Author Topic: How to care for lines  (Read 2713 times)

Offline Will Moore

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How to care for lines
« on: July 24, 2017, 07:31:35 AM »

On the flying field, the question came up , is there anything you should use , to keep your flying lines
clean and friction free as possible. I know, in the 60's , we would wipe the lines, as we went out to the handle,
with a Kleenex tissue sprinkled with talc powder. I do not seem to see that anymore.
        So, is just wiping them with a clean cloth sufficient, or are people using some other sort of chemistry?

I also notice, that hardly anyone uses Solids these days.  Is that because they are just a hassle to use,
or are there other reasons?  And, if Solids were used, would the recommendations change. Is there any trick to keep Solids working freely.
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Offline peabody

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2017, 07:40:48 AM »
Hi Will
Windy was many things to many people.
I watched him wipe his lines after every flight with rubbing alcohol on a paper towel.
Sometimes he wiped them again before he put the plane on the line for a flight.

We were flying in New Jersey, in a swamp, and the area was not known for its clean, crisp air,

I adopted the fetish that he seemed to have for cleaning lines....and have not had a line failure in 20 years or more.

The rubbing alcohol/paper towel is helpful in finding broken strands and kinks....

Have fun!

 

Offline Paul Seeley

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2017, 08:21:31 AM »
Hi Will

Not sure about elsewhere, but I've always ran my lines through my fingers to feel for kinks and debris every time I lay them out. A wipe with a soft cloth occasionally seems like a good idea too. Solid lines are great for reducing line drag, but a liability when performing aerobatics especially in damp conditions (and it's always a bit damp here!) I understand that this can cause the lines to 'lock'.
I've used them on smaller speed models, but they were a hassle to keep in good condition and I wouldn't use them for anything else.

Tight lines
Paul

Offline Will Moore

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2017, 09:20:06 AM »
I use straight methanol and a paper towel.

Would regular rubbing alcohol that you buy in a drug store do the same thing?

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Online Brett Buck

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2017, 09:22:47 AM »

On the flying field, the question came up , is there anything you should use , to keep your flying lines
clean and friction free as possible. I know, in the 60's , we would wipe the lines, as we went out to the handle,
with a Kleenex tissue sprinkled with talc powder. I do not seem to see that anymore.
        So, is just wiping them with a clean cloth sufficient, or are people using some other sort of chemistry?

I also notice, that hardly anyone uses Solids these days.  Is that because they are just a hassle to use,
or are there other reasons?  And, if Solids were used, would the recommendations change. Is there any trick to keep Solids working freely.

       Talc doesn't stay on the lines and probably does almost nothing, unless the lines get sticky with oil, in which case it makes sludge. Stranded lines should be cleaned with some sort of solvent every few flights. The solvent varies, but I have settled on either lacquer thinner or acetone, with a very occasional pass with alcohol of some variety to remove water-soluble crud. Alcohol tends to attract water, so in general you want to avoid it, but some ionically-bonded crud like bug debris needs that. I use anhydrous IPA if I have to.

    To clean, take a CLEAN new paper towel, dribble some lacquer thinner on it until it is saturated, and then run down the lines, keeping them separated. Do it multiple times until the puddle comes out clean. For competition flights, I clean before every flight, for practice, I clean every "turn" which is usually two flights. Before a big contest, I will do one pass using the "flood method", basically cleaning normally, then one pass with continual flushing with lacquer thinner as you clean, keeping the lines in the puddle in your paper towel to contamination is flushed away.

   DO NOT use anything with oil or any sort of dry lube. Oil is obvious, it just adds viscous drag and creates sludge with any dust or dirt. Dry lube like graphite or talc is probably OK, not because it lubes anything, but it just falls off otherwise clean lines. Rain-X of other silicone just seems to act like oil and is very hard to remove. Teflon spray seems to be OK but doesn't do very much.

Note I would have thought the using a CLEAN paper towel or rag was obvious, until a multiple Top-5 fly off participant was complaining about his lines sticking, and Ted and I noticed he was using a *filthy* rag that looked like it hadn't been washed since the 60's. Gave him a section of Bounty "Select-a-Size" and my lacquer thinner squirt bottle, and it took about 10 passes before it came out clean.

   Almost no one uses solids any more because they tend to stick with any contamination, and lock solid in rainy conditions on occasion. For that, people have all sorts of treatments, none of which even came close to working for me. With hard-point handles, you have almost the same feel with stranded that you used to get with solids and Baron-style handles, so there's less reason to worry about it.

    Brett

Online Brett Buck

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2017, 09:26:08 AM »
Would regular rubbing alcohol that you buy in a drug store do the same thing?

    I don't recommend any alcohol-based product, but if you must, get anhydrous isopropyl from the electronics supply house, ~$8 a quart, that at least doesn't already have water in it like drug-store alcohol.

   Having said that, if you haven't been cleaning your lines at all, just about anything would be a step forward. If it was me, I would clean multiple passes using the flood method with lacquer thinner. You will be surprised what comes off in your towel.

      Brett

Online Lauri Malila

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2017, 09:40:29 AM »
I wouldn't use alcohol as it attracts water. Clean benzine is better.
Some people spray some silicone spray to a paper towel and wipe lines with that, especially on a rainy day. I don't like it as it's something you have to do all the time to keep the feeling the same, and I don't want to contaminate everything I own with silicone.
I like the Russian carbon steel lines. For them, it's best to wipe them with turbine oil and then wipe several times with dry cloth. Same applies to Laystrate lines.

L

Offline Will Moore

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2017, 12:00:12 PM »
    I don't recommend any alcohol-based product, but if you must, get anhydrous isopropyl from the electronics supply house, ~$8 a quart, that at least doesn't already have water in it like drug-store alcohol.

   Having said that, if you haven't been cleaning your lines at all, just about anything would be a step forward. If it was me, I would clean multiple passes using the flood method with lacquer thinner. You will be surprised what comes off in your towel.

      Brett

Thank you, Brett for your detailed comments.  What I always do Is wipe  down my lines before each flight with a new micro fiber cloth, dry.  It is amazing how much apparent soil comes off the lines each time I
do it. I see little black lines in the cloth. I always use new and I never use my fingers as the oil from your skin
could cause the lines to attract contaminates. The micro fiber has the additional characteristic of detecting any
tiny breaks or burrs in the strands, as the cloth will snag on them.

I do like using solid lines because they offer noticeably less drag, but I hesitate to use them because of the "lock up" people have experienced. I don't want that to be the cause of loosing my airplane. And now I am flying in humid Florida, so in using them, I might be asking for trouble.

Mineral spirits might be an alternative to the lacquer thinner, as it is less volatile, also has no water component,
and might do less damage if absorbed into your skin. ( Probably use a glove to protect, LOL ) mineral spirits dissolves any oil residue, and leaves no noticeable residue.  It is a professional carpet cleaning trick. You can use it to remove oil based stains from nylon carpet without risk of damage.
Things take longer to happen than you think they will,

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Online Brett Buck

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2017, 12:59:02 PM »
Mineral spirits might be an alternative to the lacquer thinner, as it is less volatile, also has no water component,
and might do less damage if absorbed into your skin. ( Probably use a glove to protect, LOL ) mineral spirits dissolves any oil residue, and leaves no noticeable residue.  It is a professional carpet cleaning trick. You can use it to remove oil based stains from nylon carpet without risk of damage.

   Mineral Spirits/Stoddard Solvent is a potentially good idea, but I want something that evaporates faster. One of the good things about lacquer thinner (or even more so, SIG dope thinner) is that it evaporates at about the right rate, acetone is too fast, and I think mineral spirits might be too slow. You want the lines to be dry when you go to fly it.

    Brett

Offline Will Moore

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2017, 02:59:52 PM »
   Mineral Spirits/Stoddard Solvent is a potentially good idea, but I want something that evaporates faster. One of the good things about lacquer thinner (or even more so, SIG dope thinner) is that it evaporates at about the right rate, acetone is too fast, and I think mineral spirits might be too slow. You want the lines to be dry when you go to fly it.

    Brett

Good point, and you are correct, evaporates very quickly.  Thanks for all the suggestions
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Offline peabody

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2017, 03:46:50 PM »
Winfred had us searching for 91% Isopropyl alcohol.....

Online Brett Buck

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2017, 07:39:47 PM »
Winfred had us searching for 91% Isopropyl alcohol.....

     That is less good than either anhydrous IPA (99.999% isopropyl alcohol), which is in turn less good than lacquer thinner.

     Brett

Online Lauri Malila

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2017, 04:02:24 AM »
Another question is how long you can call it anhydrous.. L

Online Arlan McKee

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2017, 07:17:09 AM »
Another question is how long you can call it anhydrous.. L
Methanol, Isopropyl (2-Propanol), and Acetone are ALL totally miscible in water. Anhydrous IPA is no harder to care for than your jug of fuel.

Arlan

Online Brett Buck

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2017, 09:57:40 AM »
Another question is how long you can call it anhydrous.. L

    Keep the top closed!   But that's also why you don't want to use alcohol in the first place.

     Brett

Online Lauri Malila

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2017, 10:03:41 AM »
Another thing is that especially with Methanol, I get quite easily a headache and weird feeling after skin contact. Maybe not the best idea to wet fingers with it just before flying. L

Eric Viglione

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2017, 02:03:00 PM »
On my most heavily flown competition PA ship for any given year, one of the things I call part of line maint is to REPLACE them at the beginning of every new competition year.

Competition is hard on lines... pull tests, inadvertently people step on them by mistake when you aren't looking, etc etc. Line's are one of the cheapest parts of the puzzle, and replacing them is an often looked no brainer if you ask me.

Also, I like to buy a nice box of freezer quart or larger size ziplock bags with the better zipper tab, and put each line and handle combo for each plane in it's own bag. Keeps them clean & dry between use, adds a level of protection and they even have a nice white area usually for writing your plane name with a sharpie.

EricV

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2017, 02:30:51 PM »
I like to wind my lines up (as far as the leadouts) between flights at a contest or anytime when the pits are on grass, saving them from virtually all of the damage Eric mentioned.

I should probably clean my lines more often.  D>K Steve
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Offline John Tate

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2017, 03:20:25 PM »
What about using Naptha (lighter fluid)? I keep a Zippo lighter fluid can in my flight box that contains 1/2 Dextron and 1/2 Naptha. I use this for my after run oil. Now, maybe it would be easy to add a can of just regular Zippo lighter fluid. Any thoughts on Naptha being used to clean lines?

Offline Will Moore

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2017, 03:48:32 PM »
On my most heavily flown competition PA ship for any given year, one of the things I call part of line maint is to REPLACE them at the beginning of every new competition year.

Competition is hard on lines... pull tests, inadvertently people step on them by mistake when you aren't looking, etc etc. Line's are one of the cheapest parts of the puzzle, and replacing them is an often looked no brainer if you ask me.

Also, I like to buy a nice box of freezer quart or larger size ziplock bags with the better zipper tab, and put each line and handle combo for each plane in it's own bag. Keeps them clean & dry between use, adds a level of protection and they even have a nice white area usually for writing your plane name with a sharpie.

EricV


I think that also is an excellent idea. Replacing your lines every year would not be expensive and part of a good insurance policy. Even still, it is important to wipe down your lines before every flight, as part of your pre-flight inspection /maintenance schedule. I've noticed a lot of bugs hit airplanes and lines. With electric being so quiet, you can actually hear and feel them hit. Some large bug, perhaps a dragon fly actually stuck halfway up my lines , at the beginning of my flight, and stayed there for the entire flight. It was quite distractive.  So using a clean paper towel, or micro fiber with some kind of sulution, do get bug crud off, and all other stuff off, before every flight ,is wise. I think Brett's thoughts are on track.
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Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2017, 07:02:33 PM »
Hi Will, Here's a handy tip which has worked for me for the last 50 years or so! I am a chronic recycler and save all our used up nasal spray bottles! I have two in my flight box: one for fuel to use for priming when needed, the other is filled with pure Methanol alcohol for cleaning my lines! I do use the paper towel method viz soaking a segment with spray from my nasal spray bottle marked appropriately. The bottle with the fuel inside is complete as issued eg, it has the spray left in the bottle; the other with the alcohol has had the tube which runs down into the bottle removed so that it just pours out into the towell. No matter what fluid you use the spray bottles are handy containers for our use.


Phil Spillman
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Offline Phil Spillman

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2017, 07:06:08 PM »
I forgot to mention that the tops of these bottles may be removed by noting where the spray part matches with the bottle part. You simply push it over and the spray part comes out! Fill the bottle parts with your syringe since its hard to pour into that small hole!


Phil Spillman
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Offline peabody

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2017, 05:12:37 AM »
The problem with lacquer thinner is that it can sometimes/usually eat through economy plastic dispensers. Rubbing alcohol doesn't.
Another advantage of rubbing alcohol is that it may be used to cleanse wounds.....

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2017, 09:51:56 AM »
Isopropyl.


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Offline Fredvon4

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2017, 11:06:43 AM »
1. Good lines to start
2. Best Reel/storage that you like ....various reels can be had from 4" up to 9" with a variety of roll out / roll up methods....
3. Some sort of efficient and repeatable method for line identity method/labeling  Length/Diameter/Age
4. Some form of tension managment coming off, and going on is desired
5. Some habit formed method of inspecting  / cleaning lines for use

As I transitionee from shop building to more and more fun at the field each year, I find that getting into a set routine (habit) is not hard to do.

I started with a written check list. Mostly because it helped me overcome the nervousness of actually starting and flying a model I built

Up at # 5 I got into the habit of just a clean rag wipe as I "ran the lines"
Not really thinking I needed to focus on dry clean lines (self evident IMO)
BUT more as a rapid inspection method ---and the rag was really to find a fray instead of my finger getting pierced
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Offline peabody

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2017, 11:51:15 AM »
Fred...Good habits!
Use alcohol to clean EVERY use.

Have fun!

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2017, 10:01:32 AM »
Fred hit the nail on the head with #5.   I don't use cleaner  or lubricant.  Just a clean rag. H^^
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: How to care for lines
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2017, 05:16:26 PM »
"Also, I like to buy a nice box of freezer quart or larger size ziplock bags with the better zipper tab, and put each line and handle combo for each plane in it's own bag. Keeps them clean & dry between use, adds a level of protection and they even have a nice white area usually for writing your plane name with a sharpie." (Eric V.)

This is my method also. My preference is to fasten the lines to the airplane first, then run the lines out and attach the handle last. I leave both clips on the handle (one of which is the oddball length, while the other three are stock Sullivan). Then leave one on the plane and one on one of the lines. I have not been able to understand why people like to drag their custom fancy painted handle across the pavement. Mine aren't fancy painted, but I still don't like to drag them around.  D>K Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.


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