Author Topic: How Old (the plane) Is Too Old To Fly? (Read 6179 times)

Dick Pacini · « **on:** December 26, 2009, 11:19:27 AM »

Not me, the planes. I still have three of my Spirits in various stages of air worthiness. The profile has a fuselage snapped in half behind the wing, the plane I flew in the '73 NATS has a few holes in the covering and is missing the cowl. The last one is the one with the funky spot in the foam wing and is mostly complete. I think it still has an OS Max 35 on it, as does the profile.

These planes have not been flown since 1975. Even if I repair the obvious damage, I am concerned about the structural integrity of the wood, glue joints and covering, not to mention the controls and hinges.

Has anyone ever flown a plane this old without it coming apart midair?

Brett Buck · « **Reply #1 on:** December 26, 2009, 11:32:24 AM »

Quote from: Dick Pacini on December 26, 2009, 11:19:27 AM

Not me, the planes. I still have three of my Spirits in various stages of air worthiness. The profile has a fuselage snapped in half behind the wing, the plane I flew in the '73 NATS has a few holes in the covering and is missing the cowl. The last one is the one with the funky spot in the foam wing and is mostly complete. I think it still has an OS Max 35 on it, as does the profile.

These planes have not been flown since 1975. Even if I repair the obvious damage, I am concerned about the structural integrity of the wood, glue joints and covering, not to mention the controls and hinges.

Has anyone ever flown a plane this old without it coming apart midair?

David just flew his dad's airplane from the 76 NATs, and it held together OK. I don't think there is a lot you can do to check it out beforehand.

Brett

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #2 on:** December 26, 2009, 11:51:41 AM »

Not a stunt ship but this was built by scaling up the small magazine plan in the mid 70's. sent 20 years hanging in a friends basement. When I got it back it was in pretty bad shape but all the glue joints were good. Recovered the wings, repainted the fuselage and built the missing cowl. It flys as well as it did when it was new..

I wouldn't worry about your airplanes, many allot older have been refurbished and are flying..

john e. holliday · « **Reply #3 on:** December 26, 2009, 11:56:38 AM »

I have had one plane that I wanted to restore as it was one of my first ones. I gave up on it as the glue had pulled away from the wood in the areas I could see and it was falling apart in my hands

Phil Coopy · « **Reply #4 on:** December 26, 2009, 12:22:24 PM »

Here is a modified CG Buster that I have flown quite regularly since I first flew it in the Pentagon parking lot about 1966. Been recovered and repaired a few times since then.

Phil

Randy Powell · « **Reply #5 on:** December 26, 2009, 03:53:47 PM »

I've seen guys pull planes built in the 60s out of the attic, clean them up and fly them at VSC. Haven't see one explode yet (though I've only been to two VSCs so my experience is limited), but I guess it presupposes that the plane was well built in the first place. You pays your money and takes your chances.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #6 on:** December 26, 2009, 04:16:28 PM »

I know of a couple of airplanes that are 20+ years old and are still flying. Grandpa has a wing that is going to be 16 years old that has been in the same airframe design (new fuse needed to be built because it fell apart due to fuel soaking). I guess, as long as you somewhat maintained it over the years, like not dropping anything heavy on it, or putting it up in an attic that is 100+ degrees during summer, then I guess you are ok.

Mike Scholtes · « **Reply #7 on:** December 26, 2009, 07:45:19 PM »

I have a Goldberg Shoestring that I built while living in Tuscany in 1974. Never flew it until after re-covering it in 2007. No problems structurally, at least not yet. Anything built with modern glues is probably OK. Most important thing is to give it a pull test before attempting to fly it. Furniture and musical instruments glued together hundreds of years ago are still in common use, so 30 years is not much of a test. Of course, that old armoire doesn't have to fly...

EddyR · « **Reply #8 on:** December 26, 2009, 07:54:56 PM »

The wing and stab in my All Americon SR is 52 years old. It has had 5 bodies on it. It still has the solid leadouts in it. I did change the bell crank 15 years ago. I flew it last week.
Ed

George · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2009, 07:08:44 AM »

Whew! When I read the heading I thought you meant pilots!

George

EddyR · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2009, 07:27:01 PM »

Ty My plane is old but I am also getting to old to fly

Ed

George · « **Reply #11 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:07:04 AM »

Just a thought: When you put an old plane back into service that has an engine installed and the engine has not been run in thirty years or so, I would suggest you remove the engine and flush it out with at least the backplate and plug off. Inspect it for rusted parts. It would be best to check that the conrod upper bearing has not frozen to the wrist pin. If it has, you will cause excessive wear on the wrist pin holes on the piston and probably experience reduced engine life.

George

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:14:23 AM »

When you think about pulling UP as the plane pile drives into the dirt... Oh, your talkin' about old models...

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2009, 05:38:07 PM »

How old is old?

Flying Midwest Cobra built about 70 and a scratch built stunter from about 75.
Several other airplanes from late 70s including a flight streak and a combat plane. WOW that's 30+ years.
Have a few R/C scale airplane built about 25-26 years ago still flying.

So far nothing has failed.......knock on wooden head.

A few airplanes that I knew were high time the leadouts were partly cut and frayed by the bellcrank so I have changed these.
Airplanes built with ambroid get holes poked in old glue and superglue added where possible.
Have added dowels through fuselage into wing L.E. on a couple that were weak in this area.

Probably a good idea to test fly with out spectators and with a warning to all present.

The speed and racing airplanes will stay parked, to much to go wrong if it goes wrong.

Fly until you die!

Peter Ferguson · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2009, 08:05:30 PM »

I thought I was going to find out how many years I have left before I'm relagated to R/C sailboats.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2009, 09:50:46 AM »

RC Sail boats can be fun, when I lived in San Diego a friend and I both bought Cox sail boats with sail wench and two channel radios. We had a ball down at the Chula Vista boat ramp playing all sorts of games that mostly resulted in bumperboats. Gave mine away when I left, not worth shipping (at the time) and didn't have room on my Goldwing.

phil c · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2009, 12:12:10 PM »

Quote from: Dick Pacini on December 26, 2009, 11:19:27 AM

These planes have not been flown since 1975. Even if I repair the obvious damage, I am concerned about the structural integrity of the wood, glue joints and covering, not to mention the controls and hinges.

Has anyone ever flown a plane this old without it coming apart midair?

Lots of people have. I think you answered your own question. The biggest unknown is the state of the bellcrank and leadouts. The only real way to answer this is to cut a hole in it and look! Particularly if the leadouts were soldered. Old solder joints have a way of corroding, that includes the leadouts, any joins in the pushrod, and the control horns.

The other iffy spot may be the bellcrank bolt, if the crank is bolted to a platform. The wood can swell and shrink and loosen the bolt, allowing it to vibrate out. If the bellcrank is hung on a post, make sure the top and bottom of the post are secure. I've seen the whole post vibrate its way through an 1/8 in. ply cap intended to keep the post in place.

John Sunderland · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2009, 08:04:54 AM »

Joe Reinhard built a version of the Half Fast for his son to train on in the 70's. His version had a Kavan RC mount, internal tank and an old Fox. My son learned to fly on it back in 1995. It was at least 20 years old then. Many a retread in our club polished his chops with this plane and I perpetually maintained it for years. Jeff Kemp (GB)flew his first pattern ever on this airplane. Two years ago I resurrected it one more time with copious amounts of epoxy and finally flew some combat with it. An overzealous newer competitor flew right through the middle of this brittle old bird. Silk went to chips after 30 years but talk about getting your monies worth out of an airplane!

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #18 on:** December 30, 2009, 01:40:21 PM »

Quote from: Dick Pacini on December 26, 2009, 11:19:27 AM

Not me, the planes. I still have three of my Spirits in various stages of air worthiness. The profile has a fuselage snapped in half behind the wing, the plane I flew in the '73 NATS has a few holes in the covering and is missing the cowl. The last one is the one with the funky spot in the foam wing and is mostly complete. I think it still has an OS Max 35 on it, as does the profile.

These planes have not been flown since 1975. Even if I repair the obvious damage, I am concerned about the structural integrity of the wood, glue joints and covering, not to mention the controls and hinges.

Has anyone ever flown a plane this old without it coming apart midair?

When I got back into controline I refurbished my Grinder that I quit flying in 19 70 and it actually flew better afterword. That was a 29 year old plane and after I crashed it I put the wing into a profile fuseledge for another ten years. It was my Grinder profile with a OSFP40 on it and I also used it for a test bed for four strokes and the LA46.Back in the late 90's.

John Sunderland · « **Reply #19 on:** August 02, 2010, 11:44:28 PM »

Just consider....with CL...safe flying is a much safer bet at any age with a companion....gets wind under your wings, your juices flowin, your mind engaged, and your ass in gear! Minimal damage to bystanders if ever....and good odds of a good time. If I do this while dying, I couldnt have had a better time...air time Is everything in my opinion. Same as it was when I was 10.

Andrew Tinsley · « **Reply #20 on:** August 03, 2010, 08:13:17 AM »

Hello!
I have a Calamity Jane with a Merco 29 for power. I built it with my father in 1959. It still flies occasionally, it has been recovered once. The bellcrank assembly was well engineered and I have not had to touch it so far.
I also have a Keil Kraft Chief (an old A2 glider). My father built it for me when I was three! I "helped" and cut myself with a razor blade. I still have the plan with the blood stain on one corner! This plane has been recovered three times and is still a good flier. The tail plane warps easily and usually needs to be steamed before an outing. So this one must be 62 years old.
Both of them have been built using balsa cement using the old double gluing technique. The wisdom is that balsa cement keeps on shrinking over time and is therefore not to be recommended. I have a quarter scale Tiger Moth which is abour 4 years old, this used cyano. It is a disaster, you can hear joints failing, if you have a dead stick landing near to you! I have a mammoth job to redo all the cyano joints. I now use aliphatic adhesives (because the joints sand just great). How to reglue the joints in this model I really don't know. Any hints would be appreciated!

Andrew.

Bill Little · « **Reply #21 on:** August 03, 2010, 01:16:46 PM »

HI Dick,

There is no answer as far as model planes go. It all depends, and the only way to find out, is like everyone says. Fly it.

As far as AGE for the pilot, 268 years old is a good number........... closer to 300 and the eyesight is getting too bad.

Mongo

Greg McCoy · « **Reply #22 on:** August 03, 2010, 03:34:41 PM »

Quote from: Phil Coopy on December 26, 2009, 12:22:24 PM

Here is a modified CG Buster that I have flown quite regularly since I first flew it in the Pentagon parking lot about 1966. Been recovered and repaired a few times since then.

Phil

Flying there is gone forever.

Phil Spillman · « **Reply #23 on:** August 09, 2010, 07:02:11 PM »

In December 1969, I started a Midwest Skyraider profile. I copied the original parts and built it exact using Ambroid glue and Tightbond on the doublers. I could approximate the flights I have enjoyed on this thing but suffice it to say there's well over 700 using all sorts of engines! This past May I thought that this plane just might be eligible for Nostalgia 79 and took it to Brodak's after one very intense Sunday afternoon on practice! It flew just fine and got me into another event! I know my date is correct because our daughter was born that same year, 1969, in January! Assuming I finished it in 1970 there's 40 years of service and still going strong! The reason for its longevity I feel is the leather fillets I had used and applied with epoxy resin and hardener. Naturally the covering was silk and Randolph Dope!

Phil spillman

Bill Little · « **Reply #24 on:** August 09, 2010, 07:38:44 PM »

Quote from: Phil Spillman on August 09, 2010, 07:02:11 PM

In December 1969, I started a Midwest Skyraider profile. I copied the original parts and built it exact using Ambroid glue and Tightbond on the doublers. I could approximate the flights I have enjoyed on this thing but suffice it to say there's well over 700 using all sorts of engines! This past May I thought that this plane just might be eligible for Nostalgia 79 and took it to Brodak's after one very intense Sunday afternoon on practice! It flew just fine and got me into another event! I know my date is correct because our daughter was born that same year, 1969, in January! Assuming I finished it in 1970 there's 40 years of service and still going strong! The reason for its longevity I feel is the leather fillets I had used and applied with epoxy resin and hardener. Naturally the covering was silk and Randolph Dope!

Phil spillman

Hi Phil,

Did you have a toast with a *WINKY*??

Bill