Author Topic: hollowing/goughing tools (Read 2939 times)

Bootlegger · « **on:** September 22, 2018, 09:53:35 AM »

Guy's where do you get your tools to hollow/gouge tips and blocks, and are they sharp, and be sharpened for further use? Thanks a lot

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2018, 10:20:31 AM »

I avoid sharp tools in my hands. For hollowing out blocks, I use my rotary Dremel tool with the sandpaper arbor. It makes a lot of balsa dust, but I don't get any injuries.

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2018, 10:58:59 AM »

I'm with Floyd.....Dremel drum sander works a treat, but you will look like Frosty the Balsaman after!

Mike Greb · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2018, 11:02:49 AM »

For the initial hollowing out I use needle nose pliers to pull out a lot of wood.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2018, 11:24:31 AM »

Router bits chucked in the drill press removes a lot in hurry. Just be a little cautious not to get your paws too close.

Dave

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2018, 11:56:06 AM »

All of the hobby knife makers have a selection of gouges that fit the large handles, usually red plastic or aluminum, and a set of those works well and last the rest of your life if used properly. I have never had to sharpen mine. Once roughed out with those, them I got to the Dremel tool route and special shaped hand sanding blocks.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Norm Furutani · « **Reply #6 on:** September 22, 2018, 12:03:59 PM »

I like using a 1/2-3/4" gouge, but it needs to be razor sharp. Available through woodworking stores, Rockler, Woodcraft etc.

Norm

Dave Hull · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2018, 12:04:39 PM »

'Legger,

I find the trick is to make less work of it to start with. If I am doing a solid block wingtip, I split it horizontally before I start. Either buy two thinner blocks to make up a tip, or resaw the one you have, assuming the loss of material still leaves enough to match the wing thickness. Lap-sand the pieces and tack glue back together.

I like to carve away as much as possible since that does not generate clouds of dust and is kind of peaceful. You get to sit on a comfy shop stool, listen to the radio (since the Dremel is not howling) and watch the shape emerge. For the outsides, I start by cutting the profile in two directions on either the band saw or the scroll saw. Next comes the rounding. I like the Xacto #226 blade. I find I can keep sharpening it well enough almost indefinitely, using a piece of 600 or so wet and dry SiC paper on a flat surface. Get the technique right and it works fine. That has proved better for me than a fine grit stone (which is ok) or a diamond "stone" that turned out to be too coarse.

To do the inside, I mark the hollowing limit lines an 1/8" or so from the now completed outside, and cut the chord between the two using the Xacto #226. I use their chisel tip blade all the time for other tasks, but for wingtips, I would switch now to the Xacto sanding drum. If it is a big wingtip, I might tack glue the outside to a block so that I can clamp the block in a little drill press vise. That gives me two hands to work with, which can make a lot of difference in control. Unless the internal radius gets pretty sharp, like down in a corner, I find the coarse grit sanding drum to make faster work and is more controllable than any of the burrs. I had tried a lot of burrs and use them often, but not my first choice for wingtip work.

The Dremel I have is the earliest one with phenolic housing--and no speed control. That may make a difference with what other guys are finding works for them.

As far as safety, which has been mentioned twice so far in this thread, I would not trust myself with any kind of burr mounted in a drill press and hand-held work. Maybe some have managed to do this, but it seems far more dangerous than a simple carving tool like an Xacto.

Hope this give some info on one method to consider. I gotta get back to sanding the primer on a Legacy.....

Dave

http://xacto.com/products/cutting-solutions/blades/detail/X226

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2018, 12:12:46 PM »

I made some from music wire and elbow grease. It's probably more sane to buy from xActo or from a fine woodworking supply house.

Keep your tools sharp and you won't lose control of them. Then be mindful of where they'll go if you do lose control of them and keep any human flesh out of their path. Do those, and your tools won't bite you. Sharp tools are safe tools.

Norm Furutani · « **Reply #9 on:** September 22, 2018, 12:28:02 PM »

If you use a corded Dremel, attach it to a foot switch. Much easier to control. If you tap the switch you can even control the speed (RC glider fliers are familiar with the technique!)

Norm

Bill Ervin · « **Reply #10 on:** September 22, 2018, 02:20:30 PM »

Rotary saw with a 1/4” zip bit for bulk removal then pieces of 40 grit glued on the ends of sticks.

Bill Ervin · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2018, 02:27:51 PM »

Perform the task with your work next to a vacuum nozzle or outside on a windy day.

Tony Drago · « **Reply #12 on:** September 22, 2018, 07:05:19 PM »

Looks good Bill.
The late Tom Warden was asked once. Why do yo make the inside of your carvings as good as the out side.
Hes reply was. Now it's perfect.

Bill Ervin · « **Reply #13 on:** September 22, 2018, 08:57:47 PM »

Hi Tony, I often question the wisdom of hollowing out the outboard wingtip.

Tony Drago · « **Reply #14 on:** September 22, 2018, 11:11:32 PM »

Bill.
I don't. Less balsa dust and weight to add if you need to add weight. Also I know some that weigh all the wing wood and use the heavier wood for the out board wing.
Years ago I ended up with 2 out of 3 flight streak kits. The person i got them from said he went through the kits. The heavier wood for the out board wing. The lighter wood for the rest of the plane.
At least I had all the parts punched out.

Dennis Toth · « **Reply #15 on:** September 23, 2018, 06:34:04 AM »

Bill,
The advantage of a somewhat hollowed outboard tip is tip weight trim. Back in the day they left the outboard wing tip solid to act as tip weight. Most would separate the heavy ribs, sheeting and tip block and use them on the outboard wing. In many cases this would be to much tip weight.

What I do is similar, with a little update. I use the hardest (most of the time the heaviest and strongest) tip rib for the inside tip where I mount the leadout slider. I use the rest of the heavy ribs from the center to the outside tip. For the tips I like to use the heavy one for the outside but will hollow out so it weighs about 3/8 ish oz. more then the inside tip. I will either install a trim tip weight box in the bottom of the tip or make the whole tip removable to allow adding tip weight as needed.

Best, DennisT

frank williams · « **Reply #16 on:** September 23, 2018, 09:47:59 AM »

I still think these circular cutters are the best for initial wing tip hollowing.

Perry Rose · « **Reply #17 on:** September 23, 2018, 10:09:19 AM »

Don't be faint of heart. https://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/chainsaws/455-rancher/965030290/

Bootlegger · « **Reply #18 on:** September 23, 2018, 10:41:57 AM »

Perry, that was a Goood one, how ever I am very faint of heart with that gouging tool, too close to my fingers...!!!

rich gorrill · « **Reply #19 on:** September 23, 2018, 12:02:30 PM »

Frank Williams, I have been looking for those type of gouges for years, they are impossible to find. I borrowed a set from a club member for my last build. If anyone knows where they can be found please let me know. I have tried everywhere but I know there is probably a source I might not know about.

Rich

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #20 on:** September 23, 2018, 12:16:15 PM »

The Dremel with a rotary file is definitely the fastest. However the balsa dust always tries to kill me. So for at least the last 50 years or so I've used the circular routers from Xacto. The same ones that Mr Williams uses and showed a picture of above.

I love to carve balsa. In fact I typically carve top and bottom blocks and engine cowlings rather than using molded sheets. Just wish I could do it as well as Ted Fancher...The Master!

Those xacto circular cutters are available on Amazon and pretty cheap. They can be resharpened but it takes some practice and a couple of good stones!

Randy Cuberly

frank williams · « **Reply #21 on:** September 23, 2018, 02:47:08 PM »

Rich
Quite a variation in price .... don't know if some are sharper than others ...
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Doffice-products&field-keywords=xacto+carving+router
Frank

Dan McEntee · « **Reply #22 on:** September 23, 2018, 02:49:43 PM »

Quote from: frank williams on September 23, 2018, 09:47:59 AM

I still think these circular cutters are the best for initial wing tip hollowing.

These are the cutters I was referring to. They come in round, square and triangle shape. They can be resharpened but I have never had to do that yet. Lots of ways to rough and hog out the meaty stuff, but these can get you close to the finish level if used carefully.
For practice carving balsa, get into old time rubber power free flight and carve the props for those. Lots of fun and very satisfying.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee

Here is a whole set.

https://www.amazon.com/Excel-Blades-20750-4-Piece-Assorted/dp/B00144WOQ4/ref=sr_1_cc_6?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1537736381&sr=1-6-catcorr&keywords=xacto+carving+router

Howard Rush · « **Reply #23 on:** September 26, 2018, 01:59:45 PM »

Quote from: frank williams on September 23, 2018, 02:47:08 PM

Quite a variation in price .... don't know if some are sharper than others ...

Sounds like an HR person.

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #24 on:** September 26, 2018, 02:14:13 PM »

Quote from: Norm Furutani on September 22, 2018, 12:28:02 PM

If you use a corded Dremel, attach it to a foot switch. Much easier to control. If you tap the switch you can even control the speed (RC glider fliers are familiar with the technique!)

Norm

Tap the switch?! That's the old way......I designed my "Chameleon" to take a full pedal to the metal all the way to the "ping" launch! Heh, heh!

Personally I use my dremel to hollow out "anything" I want light (er)

Cheers, Jerry

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #25 on:** September 26, 2018, 02:16:29 PM »

Quote from: Bill Ervin on September 22, 2018, 02:20:30 PM

Rotary saw with a 1/4” zip bit for bulk removal then pieces of 40 grit glued on the ends of sticks.

Hi Bill,

Very nice tips. I can see that you used to hollow out logs for boats in the Amazon basin!

Jerry

Bill Ervin · « **Reply #26 on:** September 26, 2018, 02:51:36 PM »

Hi Jerry, I remember the Chameleon, beautiful sailplane! Didn’t it have elliptical tips?

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #27 on:** September 26, 2018, 04:04:34 PM »

Quote from: Gerald Arana on September 26, 2018, 02:16:29 PM

Very nice tips. I can see that you used to hollow out logs for boats in the Amazon basin!

Which reminds me -- no one has mentioned burning out the balsa by lighting a fire in the tip and then gouging out the ash! It's how the Northwest native Americans used to do it - or at least that's what they told me on the field trip to Ft. Stevens. I'm not sure why it's not considered a viable method for our stunt planes.

GallopingGhostler · « **Reply #28 on:** September 26, 2018, 05:23:21 PM »

Quote from: Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach on September 22, 2018, 10:58:59 AM

I'm with Floyd.....Dremel drum sander works a treat, but you will look like Frosty the Balsaman after!

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #29 on:** September 26, 2018, 06:55:55 PM »

Quote from: Bill Ervin on September 26, 2018, 02:51:36 PM

Hi Jerry, I remember the Chameleon, beautiful sailplane! Didn’t it have elliptical tips?

Yes it does! And it now resides in Shawn Lenci's house! I built it for the Modesto Gorilla wenches, and I could break a 200 lb test wench line in the wind! Yeehaw!

But it would bend my 3/4" 6061 Alum. wing joiner. It was not easy to straighten out but I did it.

Cheers, Jerry

GallopingGhostler · « **Reply #30 on:** September 26, 2018, 07:20:08 PM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on September 26, 2018, 04:04:34 PM

Which reminds me -- no one has mentioned burning out the balsa by lighting a fire in the tip and then gouging out the ash! It's how the Northwest native Americans used to do it - or at least that's what they told me on the field trip to Ft. Stevens. I'm not sure why it's not considered a viable method for our stunt planes.

Balsa log type airplane fuselages both CL and FF were fairly common in the past. The earlier ones for even some larger aircraft some 60-70 years ago. Last were the Scientific half-A's up to the late 1960's. I still have a balsa log Scientific kit, the 18" wingspan Piper Super Cub.

Rob Killick · « **Reply #31 on:** September 30, 2018, 08:47:44 AM »

Hi ,

I like to get my carving tools from Lee Valley .
Look up scorp, in the search window.

Rob K.

rich gorrill · « **Reply #32 on:** October 01, 2018, 06:30:06 AM »

Thank you Frank and Dan, these are just what I've been looking for. Have to start using Amazon searches more often.

L0U CRANE · « **Reply #33 on:** October 02, 2018, 01:10:48 AM »

I've been happily married for over 50 years, and wonder how my life-mate would react if mentioned I was messing with "gorilla wenches" or 200 lb "wenches." Happy as we are, I wouldn't even suggest the idea...

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