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Author Topic: Foomph! ???  (Read 6231 times)

Offline Larry Renger

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Foomph! ???
« on: April 03, 2011, 06:25:05 PM »
Foomph, was is das?  Das is nicht gut!  Shades of Pstuff and such going up.

I was out at Whittier Narrows today trying to find some CA glue from some kind soul.  Standing in the RC pits (never trust THOSE guys) when a fireball erupted just out of range of my legs.  Turns out that a rather large LiPo pack decided to self destruct, and the guy who owned it didn't bother to mention the potential to anybody! Especially me, who was standing 2 feet away from a 2 foot diameter fireball.

This guy has had this happen before!  IN HIS CAR!!!

Can you say "BAD CHARGER"?  He either isn't using the balancing function (all that was left of the battery were the main and balancing leads, so I know they were there), or he is way mistreating the batteries in how he is charging them, or he is using a really bad brand of battery (Rhino was what he was using).

Since I didn't have the ability to analize all the potential sources of this near disaster, all I can recommend is that you use a long extension cord to your power supply or from your source battery, put the battery to be charged on something non flammable in an open area, and then run and hide.

You do NOT want to be anywhere near one of these when it lights off!  Trust me, you REALLY don't.  ~^
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2011, 06:54:32 PM »
I'm pretty sure that most of use that fly ECL take a bit more care with our LiPos than some of the RC guys -
I for one - always blance charge, ALWAYS use a LiPo sack and ALWAYS keep them well clear of anything flammible - but if you are take care of them - the "FOOMPH" should not happen.

thre are always cowboys out there....guess you were near one!!
In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2011, 07:18:30 PM »
 Or, completely eliminate any potential and don't fly electric. ;D
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2011, 07:27:19 PM »
That's why I was pretty much shocked by this website:  http://lithiumion-batteries.com/default.aspx

I put a post on the electric forum about it, asking about various types of lithium-??? batteries. Nobody really commented about the idea of having a lithium battery living & charging next to a gas tank in a boat or motorcycle. I'm not sure why not. It still doesn't seem like a good idea to me. It isn't likely that they will be removed for charging, because in the case of my boat, the batteries get charged ASAP after every outting. Parked next to the house, of course. Or, out at a campground, hooked up to the truck, maybe parked next to other boats and trucks and campers, and a long way from a fire station. I think the whole idea is bad news, at least at the current stage of the technology.  :X Steve  
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Offline John Cralley

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2011, 07:58:52 PM »
For what it is worth, I have had good luck with Rhino batteries. I do, of course, charge them via the balancing plug with a CellPro charger. I believe that any of our Li-Poly batteries (except the A123 form) can be made to self destruct if overcharged or otherwise abused.

As to the Li-Poly battery in a boat that Steve mentions I suspect it is of the A123 variety since weight is of no concern in this case.

John
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2011, 08:55:28 PM »
"As to the Li-Poly battery in a boat that Steve mentions I suspect it is of the A123 variety since weight is of no concern in this case."

Uh, well...one of their selling points is that one of the boat batteries (about the size of a Group 27) is only 9 lbs, instead of close to 90 lbs for a good lead-acid battery. They're supposed to hold up better, last longer, etc., but the price is around $1,100 each. Not that some fool wouldn't cough up the money, but it just looks like a bad idea, assuming that they will be left in the boat, car, truck, motorcycle, etc. while being charged. What if you needed a jump-start? Sounds really dangerous to me.  H^^ Steve

"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2011, 10:49:18 PM »
I'm pretty sure that most of use that fly ECL take a bit more care with our LiPos than some of the RC guys -
I for one - always blance charge, ALWAYS use a LiPo sack and ALWAYS keep them well clear of anything flammible - but if you are take care of them - the "FOOMPH" should not happen.

thre are always cowboys out there....guess you were near one!!

If that's how some of the RC guys take care of their batteries, then a simple analysis of the statement will tell you that most of them take more care.

That's why I was pretty much shocked by this website:  http://lithiumion-batteries.com/default.aspx

I put a post on the electric forum about it, asking about various types of lithium-??? batteries. Nobody really commented about the idea of having a lithium battery living & charging next to a gas tank in a boat or motorcycle. I'm not sure why not. It still doesn't seem like a good idea to me. It isn't likely that they will be removed for charging, because in the case of my boat, the batteries get charged ASAP after every outting. Parked next to the house, of course. Or, out at a campground, hooked up to the truck, maybe parked next to other boats and trucks and campers, and a long way from a fire station. I think the whole idea is bad news, at least at the current stage of the technology.  :X Steve  

If the battery has built-in charging circuitry then it should be pretty darn safe.  When LiPo cells are taken care of right, they don't have too much problems -- if the battery just refuses more charge than it can take, then it'll be OK, even if it's being jump started.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Russ Danneman

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 06:40:17 AM »
Or, completely eliminate any potential and don't fly electric. ;D
ditto
FLY LOW FLY FAST  RISKY BUSINESS

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 06:50:09 AM »
That is what they are saying now that took down tha UPS cargo plane at Dubai. It was loaded with some Li-po batteries that caught fire.
Jim Kraft

Offline W.D. Roland

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2011, 08:50:09 AM »
Lipos. What a scary let down in technology. ~^

Before returning to CL flew some micro r/c scale and aerobatic in the 11 to 14inch span range.
The last one was a nice little aerobatic sort of scale bipe. Was sitting on the bench after flying session when a strange noise got my attention. Was only a wee noise but airplane just sitting still untouched should not make noise.
3 screws to remove hatch and WHAT THE HECK! the battery is expanding! Well not to much damage was done ripping out the battery and throwing it far as possible out the shop door.
 :! where is that Cox .010? :!

Last year at the R/C fun fly someone had a large Christen Eagle electric. Watched the pilot wring the stuff out of it and then lost it straight in about 100yds away.
Then the smoke started, Then the blaze of balsa and paint, then the grass.......
By the time the entire group had the grass back to a normal condition there was only a chard electric motor and a few odds and ends of metal left.
Latter learned the pilot/owner had a couple of $$grand$$ in it and this was the 2nd flight.

Now when I fly Lipos it is only in cheep toy airplanes.

Guns are safer than lipos. Guns wait until you make it do something! y1

The insane Green rush of those who hate ICE may do the human race in.

From now on ICE is safer choice for me.

David
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Offline Don Curry AMA 267060

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2011, 09:08:18 AM »
All of your cell phone and laptop computers are powered by these.
Don

ps. not to mention cordless drills and such.

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2011, 11:02:16 AM »
NIMH are heavier, but at least they don't burn up planes. I will stick with them for my spark ign. planes. I fly with gasoline some of the time, and I don't need a smoking battery. Nicads work pretty well also. Laptops scare me.
Jim Kraft

Offline W.D. Roland

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2011, 11:08:52 AM »
No cells or lap tops here! Well I do have a cell phone just no clue where it is 99% of the time. I like it that way #^
All my cordless tools are NiCad.

Even so if all were Lipo they are replaceable with only throwing $$$ at the situation.

Our airplanes are a different situation requiring much time and skill, well for some, not.
David Roland
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2011, 11:20:37 AM »
As has been stated before, the VAST m,ajority of problems from Li-Po batteries come from improper handling, either not balancing when charging, discharging to fast, not waiting for the battery temperature to stablise before charging, or crash damage to the battery.
so, balance properly every time you charge, let the battery cool ( or warm up) before charging, dont overdraw your packs, and if they show crash damage dont use them.
No one in my RC club, or myself, have ever had problems with Lipo batteries , we are all pretty anal about caring for them
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline Bill Hodges

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2011, 01:29:09 PM »
Bob:

Very well said!!!  And, I wholeheartedly agree.  I am relatively new to E-power, but I am learning it and loving it.

Bill Hodges
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Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2011, 01:33:15 PM »
Thanks Bobby,
I just yesterday saw my first LiPo venting ever. I was at an R/C Pattern contest and one of the guys in my category had his canopy/hatch come open on take off and distrupted the airflow over the tail and it went straight in.

The pilot carried the wreckage off of the runway and after my flight I saw him in the pits disassembling the model. He took the battery out and it was badly damaged with a big ding in it (it was a 4S size in a 50 sized model). He placed it in a vegetation free area in the sand (we were in the desert) and about 1 1/2 hours later it let out a big whooshing sound, vented a lot of smoke and burned just a little. That was it. The club guys asked him to leave there and they'd dispose of it later.

Like many things, batteries will be dangerous if damaged or misused. There were three glow models (mine was one) at the contest out of twenty, lots of batteries and chargers in use, and the only problem with a battery was caused by a crash.

Chris...


Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2011, 04:55:34 AM »
I think we need to apply some Seussian Physics:

"Then the Voom...
It went VOOM!
And, oh boy! What a VOOM!"

"Now, don't ask me what Voom is.
I never will know.
But, boy! Let me tell you
It DOES clean up snow!"



Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline JohnPrator

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2011, 07:18:29 AM »
I've been flying electric powered CL Stunt models for almost six years. I started with early-tech LiPoly batteries and am now using the latest in nano-technology LiPolys. I've never had any probelms of any kind with any of my packs. No "puffing," no fires, nothing. I read the instructions and take care of them in the same manner that I used to take care in not storing my glow fuel near a stove or other heat or ignition source that might cause a fire. (Have we all forgotten the horror stories about how glow drivers ignited glow fuel in cans in people's cars when they became the rage? I don't recall that we stopped using glow fuel or glow drivers. We did, however learn to keep them separated...)

Yes, it is prudent to use a Lipo Sack or Battery Bunker when charging, and it is also prudent to store them at half charge in a plastic storage bag in a refrigerator. It's also prudent to not smoke when pouring glow fuel from one can to another...

What is not prudent, wise or even smart is to suggest that we summarily do away with electric power for models. This was predictable, however. I just knew that there would be small-minded, uninformed, and vindictive people who would jump on any chance to discredit electric power in its current form for our use. The same exact thing happened when I was a part of the four-man consortium (Dean Pappas, Rich Tower, Bill Werwage and me...) that brought the tuned pipe to competitive CL stunt. A few people set themselves up as judge and jury for the CL Stunt community and made it their cause to "defeat" the move toward pipes. They tried hard to discredit us and make us look like villains who were out to ruin the event. How'd that work out for you guys? I received threats then and it really bothered me. I didn't answer the critics back then... but I will now. For those of you who do not wish to try electric flight, and/or those who dislike it for whatever reason, that's fine, but be aware that it is here to stay. It will eventually dominate the sport as the preferred and highest performance power option available -- at least until the next better thing comes along. And, it is no more dangerous than mishandled gas or glow fuels for internal combustion engines.

Cry wolf all you want, but electric is here to stay, and it's plenty safe so long as you follow the safety rules regarding its use.

Bob Hunt

    

VERY well said sir, thank you!!!
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, signed a blank check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life." That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -- Author Unknown

Offline John Cralley

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2011, 08:01:37 AM »
I think we need to apply some Seussian Physics:

"Then the Voom...
It went VOOM!
And, oh boy! What a VOOM!"

"Now, don't ask me what Voom is.
I never will know.
But, boy! Let me tell you
It DOES clean up snow!"

Man I sure could have used a VOOM this past winter!  y1  <=   LL~ #^

John
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2011, 11:53:44 AM »
Ten or more years ago, I predicted that electric would take over ducted fan R/C flying.  Got laughed at a lot!  Neener, neener, neener you gas DF flyers (if any are left).   VD~

Andy Borgogna now has his e-Baby Pathfinder working great. Four flights yesterday at the local park, and a couple of people not only stopped to watch but were complmentary.  A far cry from getting chased out of another park flying gas.   #^
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

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Offline phil c

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2011, 10:46:29 AM »
.........
What is not prudent, wise or even smart is to suggest that we summarily do away with electric power for models. This was predictable, however. I just knew that there would be small-minded, uninformed, and vindictive people who would jump on any chance to discredit electric power in its current form for our use. The same exact thing happened when I was a part of the four-man consortium (Dean Pappas, Rich Tower, Bill Werwage and me...) that brought the tuned pipe to competitive CL stunt. A few people set themselves up as judge and jury for the CL Stunt community and made it their cause to "defeat" the move toward pipes.......

Cry wolf all you want, but electric is here to stay, and it's plenty safe so long as you follow the safety rules regarding its use.

Bob Hunt

   

The E-power issue and tuned pipes sounds a lot like the folks who do not want to allow molded parts in competition planes.  New technology, in whatever form, should be looked on as an opportunity to build better flying planes(if it works out).  It shouldn't be banned.
phil Cartier

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2011, 11:40:11 AM »
Bob,

Personally, I've come over to the dark side largely. Allow anything. The days of a modeler event that includes flying are mostly gone. Way too much effort and commitment involved, I guess. The idea that it may take you years to reach the level of the top fliers just isn't there except for a small number of folks. Just allow people to fly what they brought and dispense with appearance points and BOM. I think we are losing a lot, but then, that's become the nature of the world. I agree that all the yelling and arguing about this is doing more to drive potential fliers away than bring them in. And I think your pre-sheeting wings are fine, myself.

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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2011, 12:27:02 PM »
Rather than respond to the condemnation I deserve on the second topic, I shall elicit some on the original.  Electric power makes entry into the sport easier.  Thus, it opens the sport to people too dumb to start a glow engine.  On top of that, electric enables people to fly in populated parks, where people not made wary by noise will walk through the unmarked circle.  This is a really bad combination.   Somehow we need to address it.  Maybe electric ARF sellers could include a warning: "Do not operate unless accompanied by an actual modeler or other person with good sense." 
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2011, 01:16:38 PM »
Isn't it about time we took a look at this BOM thing from the perspective of what will help promote the sport and bring in new blood? Shouldn't we also look at it from the perspective of what has been allowed for all these years as being essentially good things in respect to participation and development? If we don't "open" the rules a bit, there will be darn few new fliers coming into this event in the future.


  If you take that literally, it leads to a lot of generally silly results. Maybe we should get rid of the hourglass and square 8, those seems to be a real stumbling block. A 440 in track is pretty difficult, essentially, a 440 yard sprint. If you knocked it down to 50 yards, it would open it up to a lot more people who can't sprint for the entire current distance. Point being, there's a lot of places in the world where you could make something easier by fundamentally changing it. As far as I am concerned, that's exactly what you are proposing, in principle.

But given our stunning success and relatively good growth curve, why do we need to fundamentally change it? Look at almost any other modeling competition event - competition, not park fliers or RC sport - and tell me what is happening to them.

    I might also note that in no way does this inhibit the development of new technology. Somebody can make all the graphite molded wings they want - as long as they do it themselves. When I wanted to try foam wings, I got some foam, made the bow and power supply, and read how you did it. It wasn't as nice (I looked at the foam rudder you cut for Elliot Scott and *marvelled* at how you managed to cut that severe a taper without all sorts of hesitation marks) but it was serviceable. Walt Perkins published an article on how he made graphite fuselage shells for his Team Racer, that tells someone how to do a wing, too. That's a HUGE part of the event, getting rid of it is a very fundamental change.

   I have pointed out many times that I think pre-sheeted foam wings should probably be allowed. If I was king of the world, a Tom Morris "quick kit" would probably be OK. The only reason to prohibit them is because leaving one loophole makes the argument about other loopholes (the ones I and others *don't* agree with) easier. It's called a "compromise". I understand that you don't agree and I would rather not roll back anything but that's the reasoning behind it.

   As far as allowing anything goes, that seems to be a closed issue. It's perfectly clear from both the survey and the informal inputs I have gotten for the last 12 years as a PAMPA guy that the competitors WANT a BOM. Overwhelmingly so. It would be entirely irresponsible for PAMPA to pursue any other course. The only real question is how it should be worded, not whether or not there should be one. 

  Brett




     

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2011, 01:25:34 PM »
I read the instructions and take care of them in the same manner that I used to take care in not storing my glow fuel near a stove or other heat or ignition source that might cause a fire. (Have we all forgotten the horror stories about how glow drivers ignited glow fuel in cans in people's cars when they became the rage? I don't recall that we stopped using glow fuel or glow drivers. We did, however learn to keep them separated...)
You forgot to mention that both methanol and nitromethane are toxic, will absorb through your skin, and generally do end up on the skin of your hands whenever you fuel up.  Heavens -- they're probably known to cause cancer in the state of California (step over the line into Oregon, Nevada, New Mexico or Mexico and you'll be fine, though).  Also, I remember reading that nitro is one of the things that, when mixed with chlorine bleach, releases chlorine gas.

So fuel is flammable, toxic, and if it spills in your trunk it can fill your car with explosive gases.  OMG!!   :o :o :o

From that perspective, perhaps sticking to something that only occasionally bursts into flame is a good thing!
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2011, 02:05:28 PM »
Hi Brett:
It's funny, the "polls" (as unscientific as they are, or at least "have been") don't in any way reflect what I'm hearing from the filers at the field. All who I have spoken with would prefer to drop the BOM and appearance points and just fly. I guess they are too busy out there "doing it" to take the time to get on a forum and vote in some arbitrary poll...

The poll I refer to is the PAMPA poll, not Bob's (or the other similar internet polls that all showed the same thing for the last 12 years).   

Here in District 10 (with our 300 or so fliers), everytime this came up, I got dozens of email about not letting PAMPA get steamrolled into getting rid of BOM, and one or two the other way. That's also virtually 100% of what I hear in person at contests - where we draw, typically, 30-40 contestants* and maybe 60 total entries for a good local contest. We have two big problems at contests around here - finding a parking space, and how to get through all those flights in the available daylight. 

  An example of the difference in perspective - Randi Gifford came out for the NWR last year, which delighted us all. At dinner, she asked - "where are all the ARFs?". I think the resulting blank stares illustrated the difference nicely.

Brett

*Probably as many fliers as there are in the entirety of District 2...

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2011, 02:12:41 PM »
Brett,

I should be clear. I don't WANT the BOM or appearance points to go away so you still have my vote.   ;D
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Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2011, 02:31:25 PM »
Rather than respond to the condemnation I deserve on the second topic, I shall elicit some on the original.  Electric power makes entry into the sport easier.  Thus, it opens the sport to people too dumb to start a glow engine.  On top of that, electric enables people to fly in populated parks, where people not made wary by noise will walk through the unmarked circle.  This is a really bad combination.   Somehow we need to address it.  Maybe electric ARF sellers could include a warning: "Do not operate unless accompanied by an actual modeler or other person with good sense." 

I know a lot of "dumb" people who can start IC engines - BELIEVE ME!!!!! 

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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2011, 02:35:33 PM »
I fly electric when the weather is too crappy for me to bend down on my knees on wet pavement and mess with a glo engine. My pit crew just pushes a button (no need to get on knees).  F.C.
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2011, 04:46:12 PM »
So tell me, Brett, do all those people who come to your contests out there mold their own stuff and/or cut and cover their own foam wings exclusively? Would they vote for a BOM rule that makes them do so? We'll see...

There appears to be a diametrically opposed viewpoint from West to East on this. I'll abide by the current rules happily, but will fight against any BOM rule that states that we cannot use sheeted foam core wings, because the current rules allow that and has since they first came on the scene in 1965. I'd like to see the BOM dropped because it is absolutely unenforceable, but that's not my main beef. I just want the next generation to have at least the same opportunities as the last couple have had. Is that being unreasonable?


   What it is going to say is still an open question. the example you give is only one of the possibilities. And I stated above that I thought pre-sheeted foam wings should be allowed - and I have pretty much the same opinion about it as you for the same reason. But that's a far cry from "anything goes". There is some middle ground.

Quote
Perhaps a new PAMPA poll is in order. One that doesn't rely on the District Directors to vote for their constituency, but rather one that counts each member's vote individually on the subject. You might be surprised at the results of that one. On the other hand, I might be surprised. Only such a vote will tell the real story nationwide.

   That's what it was. Bill Rich sent it out individually to members a couple of years ago. The result was ~80:20 in favor of the BOM. And I would have expected the no-BOM crowd to be over-represented since they are so, uh, passionate, about their beliefs. But I have always gotten about the same ratio whenever the topic comes up.

   It may well be a regional issue. If you held a no-BOM/no appearance points regular contest around here I expect most would boycott it. I think it would be a good idea for those in areas where they DO have such contests.  But I am pretty comfortable with the idea of going with the 80% instead of the 20.

     Brett

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2011, 08:36:11 PM »
Went flying today, and one of the gang said that Bob Hunt really shot down my comment about the Li-Po batteries and electric planes. I didn't say anything about electric planes! I got no problem with using Li-Po batteries in any situation where they can be removed from the vehicle (model plane, easy.....bass boat, not easy at all) for charging. In a model boat, it can be easily removed for charging, so that's fine. Motorcycles...well, mine has no battery, and I like it that way...a lot.

I don't want to fly eCL myself, and I don't expect you'd have a problem with that.  I'm not at all opposed to eCL, but agree completely with Howard's post.  Logically, noise gives some sense of danger...and lack of noise might well lull somebody into thinking (wrongly) that an electric model is somehow safe to walk in front of.  I've seen very few citizens smart enough to even understand that safety cones are there to keep them safe. They'll take shortcuts across the circle if it suits them, and seem to take joy that it upsets modelers. I just put out the safety cones because it will look good in the accident report. Beyond that, it's up to their karma and the Darwin Awards.  D>K
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2011, 03:43:55 PM »
From Bob - "I just want the next generation to have at least the same opportunities as the last couple have had. Is that being unreasonable?"

Brother Bob, they DO have the same opportunities!  They, too, can build and fly their own models!  All they have to do is conform to the traditions and rules and no one will castigate them.  They can fly electric, IC, or otherwise, they can conform to the PAMPA rules and forgo the appearance points, they can do just like "the generations before them."  So what's the gripe?  Is it that everyone doesn't agree with your outlook, or mine, or the neighbor kid's, I think we're griping about silly stuff instead of just flying along like we have been.  If anyone thinks we can draw more people into the sport by changing the rules, wake up - ain't gonna happen.,  People will either be interested or they won't.  Been that way for generations, will be that way 'til the end.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2011, 06:52:57 PM »
To emphasize my earlier post, behold this picture taken from another Stunthangar post.  Here's the first known quiet model (CO2, not electric).  People are inside the clearly marked circle, and despite the low noise, the cops still came to run the guy off.   
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2011, 08:42:29 AM »
I don't know why this topic turned into another BOM argument? Bob, Brett, We all know who feels what when it comes to this. Even though I am an "east coast boy" I like the BOM at the NATS, locally I could care less what is flown (even though I have seen NO increase in turnout since we dropped BOM at local contest). Yes, it truly is an unenforceable rule, but we can try...

As far as electrics, use what ever makes you happy. I had my own personal experience that made me not like electric (R/C not C/L) and that is why I don't use them.  I will not sit my plane down in front of any electric, sorry I know MOST of you guys go through numerous safety precautions but I am not taking any chances.

Derek
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 10:19:10 AM by Derek Barry »

Offline Mike Haverly

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2011, 11:57:09 AM »

  "I will not sit my plane down in front of any electric, sorry I know MOST of you guys go through numerous safety precautions but I am not taking any chances."

        That will a little difficult to avoid at Muncie this year.   :D

Mike Haverly

Mike

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2011, 01:45:32 PM »
BAN ELECTRIC! HAVE GLENN BECK DO A DIATRIBE ON FOX! IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! Quick. He's about to be yanked.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 02:26:53 PM by Dennis Moritz »

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2011, 02:31:26 PM »
  "I will not sit my plane down in front of any electric, sorry I know MOST of you guys go through numerous safety precautions but I am not taking any chances."

        That will a little difficult to avoid at Muncie this year.   :D

Mike Haverly



You are right! ;)

I will probably get my but kicked by at least one!

Offline Andrew Borgogna

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2011, 05:59:14 PM »
I am kind of saddened by the way this posting was hijacked away from the reason the Larry posted it.  When Larry first told me of his experience I suggested he post the story on Stunthanger.  At the time it made sense, he saw a dangerous situation and wanted to alert to us of this problem.  Not set off a fire storm of "stuff" that's been argued ad nauseam on the this and other forums.  Larry I only wish I had suggested you post this subject on the electric forum where it would have been much better received and appreciated. 
Andy :(
Andrew B. Borgogna

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2011, 07:17:56 PM »
aren't folks joking at least some of us

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2011, 07:20:35 PM »
I am kind of saddened by the way this posting was hijacked away from the reason the Larry posted it.  When Larry first told me of his experience I suggested he post the story on Stunthanger.  At the time it made sense, he saw a dangerous situation and wanted to alert to us of this problem.  Not set off a fire storm of "stuff" that's been argued ad nauseam on the this and other forums.  Larry I only wish I had suggested you post this subject on the electric forum where it would have been much better received and appreciated. 
Andy :(

Foomph! hell,   foo foo ra, sadly hell yes....

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2011, 04:18:57 AM »
I am kind of saddened by the way this posting was hijacked away from the reason the Larry posted it.  When Larry first told me of his experience I suggested he post the story on Stunthanger.  At the time it made sense, he saw a dangerous situation and wanted to alert to us of this problem.  Not set off a fire storm of "stuff" that's been argued ad nauseam on the this and other forums.  Larry I only wish I had suggested you post this subject on the electric forum where it would have been much better received and appreciated. 
Andy :(

Well, this is the major problem with this and other forums. Lets assume you state a simple fact and not everyone agrees, and they won't, you will get a backlash from those who were offended. The best advice I can give is, have thick skin! There are a hand full of us who really have strong feelings about this event and the way we think it should operate, often we do not see eye to eye. This is what makes or sport what it is. No matter what is said on these forums, some of the best relationships in my life are a direct result of control line aerobatics.

There is some danger with everything we do in life, model planes are no different. Follow the directions of whatever you are using, don't be afraid to ask for help, and you should have an enjoyable experience. There will always be accidents.......


Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2011, 07:34:09 PM »
If he had posted this over on the Electric forum some of us would not have been alerted.   I too have been warned about some of the batteries in use.   The one that still gets me is the Ni-starter in the pants pocket without the cap on it.  Seen one guy in particular with smoking geans/jeans.   It was funny for a few seconds until we seen he was in real trouble.  Every thing in our hobby can be dangerous of not handled properly.    D>K
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2011, 11:23:53 PM »
I agree with Andy.  DON'T HIJACK THREADS FOR A DIFFERENT TOPIC!!!  How a simple experience (however hair-raising  ~^ at the time) turned out to be a BOM rehash (anyone see anything new? I didn't) is a mystery.  Go start your own thread.  Maybe post a note that you are doing it, and then LEAVE!  There is plenty of room in this website to talk about anything you want, but stay on the thread topic please.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline John Cralley

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Re: Foomph! ???
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2011, 12:00:07 PM »
That's why I was pretty much shocked by this website:  http://lithiumion-batteries.com/default.aspx

I put a post on the electric forum about it, asking about various types of lithium-??? batteries. Nobody really commented about the idea of having a lithium battery living & charging next to a gas tank in a boat or motorcycle. I'm not sure why not. It still doesn't seem like a good idea to me. It isn't likely that they will be removed for charging, because in the case of my boat, the batteries get charged ASAP after every outting. Parked next to the house, of course. Or, out at a campground, hooked up to the truck, maybe parked next to other boats and trucks and campers, and a long way from a fire station. I think the whole idea is bad news, at least at the current stage of the technology.  :X Steve

Well back on track (at least to some degree).  ;D

Steve, What do you think they are using in the new electric cars???  y1 Yep Lithium batteries!!!  S?P

Here is an interesting article unrelated to model airplanes but lithium battery related.

http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/electric-car-batteries-can-now-power-home-appliances/6339/

John
John Cralley
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