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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Mike Griffin on January 10, 2013, 10:20:21 PM
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This post is not addressed to the great majority of people who use this forum but lets just say you know who you are.
When a person posts a question on this forum that is valid and pertains to our hobby and asks for help in regard to that specific question, he or she should get answers that relate to the original question. When a thread that carries a specific theme is hijacked by another poster or issues are posted that have no relevance to the subject at hand, it is very frustrating and rude to the person that posted it and others who would like to know the answer also.
I have seen this happen time and time again on this forum and quite frankly I am tired of those who want to show everyone how damn brilliant they are even though it has nothing to do with what the poster originally asked. I would suspect there are people on here like me who are not hard core stunt pilots and could care less about a bunch of formulas and equations that have to do with how they landed the LEM on the moon.
Now if you ask what brought this on I will tell you. I posted a thread earlier today asking for some information on the basics of design parameters for designing a model plane. I got a couple of really good answers that actually pertained to what I had asked (thank you guys, you know who you are) and then somebody took it off in the weeds and got off subject. I posted again and asked nicely to please stay on subject but to no avail as my appeal was followed by some more off topic stuff.
I know that this will not stop it but I have seen this over and over and over again on this and also on Stunt Hangar and I got to tell those of you who do this, it is irritating as hell and rude to the person who made the original post.
I have learned my lesson and from now on I will privately contact the person or persons that I think could help me and is sincerely interested in helping me gain more knowledge of this great hobby.
Sincerely
Mike Griffin
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Hurray for you Mr. Griffin H^^
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x2
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Strangely enough, I followed that thread after it had been moved to Engineering only to get this message:
The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.
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That's because Mike deleted it.
I'm used to USENET. You start a thread there, and there's no recalling it. In my point of view, a thread belongs to everyone, not just the originator. If you delete it after other people have put effort into it (like, say, me), then you're flushing their work down the toilet along with yours.
I can't see deleting a thread unless it's turned into a flame war or someone has gotten very inappropriately personal, and even then I would look to the group moderator to do that task, not the originator of the thread. Maybe I'm misapplying USENET etiquette to web forums, but that seems a lot better than yanking the rug out from underneath everyone that's contributed something.
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The part Mike didn't like was actually pertinent to his post. I had to start another to answer his questions.
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Mike,
With all due respect.
I don't know how you feel, because I don't let Thread Highjacking bother me. ;D
Fact. I've had more Threads highjacked, deliberately muddied and topic changed than any other modeler in this Forum. Not to mention constant attempts at discreditability. Still.
There is a button for this, and Monitors should come to the rescue. Many don't?
When modelers stay silent and do nothing because it's someone else, so this kind of childlike behaviour continues.
This is why I delete some Threads. A feature that should NEVER be taken away from the OP. That's the only tool we have to "flush their pointless rhetoric or bulling away."
And Mike. These constant repeaters know exactly what they are doing. Then they hold their heads high and make comments as if they themselves aren't responsible for this kind of behaviour. It is against the rules BTW, and all Forum members know exactly who they are. How can they not?
Easy to say, but I my advice would be, don't let it bother you.
Doesn't bother me. ;D
Your a great man Mike and an exceptional modeler, based on my definition. I read all your Threads and Posts.
If I've interfered with Topics in your Threads, it's totally accidental and would never be deliberate, but I will apologize in advance.
Keep up the good modeling which you are doing.
Charles
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I don't have any bad habits I can't handle.
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Mike
First, don't stop posting. I've enjoyed reading your posts. Second, I wish you wouldn't have deleted the post, I was looking forward to reading it and gleening something from it. From what you said, there was some good stuff there. Keep your chin up and get back on the horse, some of us do enjoy your posts.
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x3
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Start a thread and you let it roll. Nature of the group communication. I don't know what caused you to pull the thread, sounds like it wasn't personal. At least one person I read who thought he may have been the cause, said he was staying on topic but needed more room to link up the relevant associations. Some folks who write stuff on this forum are actually pretty smart and knowledgeable. Some of us are simply hackers with experience and opinions. As long as a rebuttal I get is not personal (tho that can be fun) and not political, I have no problem with it. Debate is democratic. As well as a way to shake up boring conventional viewpoints. I think that a positive. These forums are interesting, engaging and fun. We would not be here reading stuff and taping away unless they were.
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I agree that the administrators should do their job. I have been slapped in the past a few times and expect to get slapped again in the future. When I had a fellow work mate ask me how I got by with the comments I made to supervisers, I replied usually they don't know what they are doing.
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Hi everybody.
I assure you I did not delete the thread because I took it personally and do no want anyone to think that. We have an unequaled amount of knowledge on this forum. If you counted up the years of combined knowledge on here it would be in the thousands of years which I am not sure if that is a compliment or not because it implies that most of us, including yours truly, is so old that we fart dust. I am sure we would all agree that Robert has created an invaluable resource for us here on this forum where we can share ideas, report on successes and failures of things we have tried and even show off our latest and greatest model. And yes, when you get a bunch of family together in one spot and everyone is expressing their opinion, you are going to have family spats and even that is OK if you make up and get over it and go on.
We have all sorts of CL people that frequent this forum. There are the real tekkie guys that have backgrounds in math, science, physics and aerodynamics that can discuss things among themselves here on the forum and leave the rest of us scratching ours heads wondering what in the heck they just said. That is when I say hey guys, dumb it down for the rest of us poor slobs out here with a handle in our hand just trying not to crash our Ringmasters.
I have been around long enough on this forum to know that sometimes the posted subject or question some times drifts off in the weeds to la la land and I know that it was not intentional or meant with any malice toward the poster, it probably just triggered something in that person's mind that made he go off in left field. It is like if I posted a question that pertained to pushrod linkages and I truly did not know much about how to rig up the pushrod to the bell crank to the elevator on a flapless ship and have a safe and secure system, so I ask this.."I am getting ready to install my push rod in my Profile plane and I am wondering if I should use a "Z" bend or a clevis or a ball link.
I am not sure which would work the best for me. Can anybody give me so advice?"
Now how many different ideas do you think this man or woman is going to get? A WHOLE LOT and everyone is going to have an opinion. That is OK, it may be a bit confusing to a newbie, but at least if you are sticking to push rod linkage we are OK. Where the problem comes in is when somebody down the thread inserts something like this..." Are you building a plane with no flaps?" "You dont want to do that because you will not be able to make your squares as good with just an elevator. Build something with flaps." And then the debate ensues about flapped ships vs non flapped ships and the poor person who asked the question is hung out to dry.
Now what have you just done to that person? He is thinking what the heck just happened, I asked about how to hook up a push rod and now I am getting a lecture on using flaps and I am a dummy for not building a plane with flaps.
Well enough of this, ladies and gentleman I was not offended by anything anyone posted and I probably should have left the post up but after I had specifically asked to pleas remain on subject, it still was drifting and at that point I thought is was dead so I deleted it. Sparky created this forum and gave the person who starts a post the ability to delete it if they so choose so he must have had a reason to do that.
I do consider this forum "family like" or fraternity like and all I ask is that we do not run good potential people off who want to be in the family by pursuing our own selfish interests In a thread that is not our own.
I hope this made some sense and did not ramble all over the place..
Mike
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Mike, I have always felt that posting on a forum is like a stand-up comedy act. Every night (every post) you probably have a different crowd. Sometimes the crowd enjoys the act and sometimes you bomb and no matter how hard you try, the reception is cool or you might even get heckled.
I have made some posts here that I thought would promote discussion, but all I got was maybe one hundred views and not one reply. That tells me that the subject was not interesting or I appeared like a boob. It can be a crap shoot. There will always be hecklers or others trying to steal the show. Just keep plugging along and don't take it personally.
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Apparently, I missed the whole thing. Also got the message "you can't see the topic because you're not authorized" thing. Finally found it in the "Engineering Forum", after looking for it in the "Stunt Design Forum", which still seems like the place it should be. Oh, my! H^^ Steve
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Does anybody know how to change the timing belt in an '88 Honda?
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Does anybody know how to change the timing belt in an '88 Honda?
You are too funny Steve F. y1 y1
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Apparently, I missed the whole thing. Also got the message "you can't see the topic because you're not authorized" thing. Finally found it in the "Engineering Forum", after looking for it in the "Stunt Design Forum", which still seems like the place it should be. Oh, my! H^^ Steve
Ahh dont worry about it Steve. I had nothing to do with thread being moved to engineering. Randy did that. I guess they thought that was a more appropriate place for it. I covered it by starting another thread called "Hijacking THreads" if you kinda want to catch up but it is not that big a deal...
Mike
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Does anybody know how to change the timing belt in an '88 Honda?
Please be specific! It was an '88 Accrod! LL~ Steve
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Does anybody know how to change the timing belt in an '88 Honda?
No but I once stayed at a holliday inn. All kidding aside I have been at work and dont know the thread in question. But I will.
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No but I once stayed at a holliday inn. All kidding aside I have been at work and dont know the thread in question. But I will.
Is that a John "Doc" Holliday Inn, or is it just a plain every day Holliday Inn?......Inquiring minds want to know! LL~ LL~ D>K H^^
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Wow! Haven't seen a Honda reference since Isky's forum. ;D
I have strayed or followed a stray from the original subject as much as anyone else. I think most of us are guilty.
My apologies.
George
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All kidding asside, I actually owned a 1988 Honda Accord LXI. Honestly.
Best car I ever got in an accident with.
Charles
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Speaking of hijacking threads . . . y1 y1 y1
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Charles doesn't hijack threads, he builds nests in them. LL~
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Charles doesn't hijack threads, he builds nests in them. LL~
Right on! LL~ LL~ LL~
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Does anybody know how to change the timing belt in an '88 Honda?
No, but I can change the hell out of a right front wheel bearing on a black 2002 Suburban.
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I've always considered threads on fora to be conversations. Conversations, wonderfully, have a way of finding their own way which may or may not end up being the direction intended by the first person to say "hi, what's happening?" Quite often, in fact, the original question might not be the best way to get where the conversation needs to go. That's more or less why we invite others to join us in the give and take.
Seems like pretty much everybody on the stunt forums is an adult and capable of sifting wheat from chaff. If a response isn't what you're interested in you've got dozens of other places to go look. Let's face it, your not getting billed a couple hundred bucks an hour for the feedback resulting from a minute or two at your keyboard. Count the blessings and simply ignore those that you find unresponsive. I will say, however, that if one chooses to ignore posts freely given by many of the knowledgeable people that frequent these forums it is likely some free gems of stunt wisdom will slip away.
There's a whole lot to know about control systems and when an individual asks a question about one aspect of a system it is almost guaranteed to generate a variety of inputs, most of which have value in and of themselves and from which a newbie can learn a lot...even if they don't hit the originator's specific bullseye. To me that's the beauty of being able to contact a whole bunch of people with a single 60 second typing exercise.
If one is less interested in a fountain of info and prefers a single stream a private message to a knowledgeable source might be a better resource. Of course, one then runs the risk of getting an incorrect response with no source for correction or the possibility of no response at all if the "target" isn't into on line tutoring.
IMHO, any information ancillary to the exact topic requested is a bonus that somebody will learn from. Can't see how that is at all a bad thing.
Just my opinion.
Ted
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No but I once stayed at a holliday inn.
LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ ;D
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I don't have any bad habits I can't handle.
LL~ Seriously though, as Ted said, I consider these threads to be conversations for the most part. As frustrating as it can sometimes be, I simply try to steer the conversation back to the topic when I am engrossed in the subject. I have not posted much the last few years, but in the last fifteen, I have been part of many many threads that drifted off topic, and often! I attribute this mostly to exuberance and passion for the hobby. Try not to be offended, as a great many here consider ourselves as friends with a common interest in a subject we are passionate about, like you! There is always a smart ass among a group as diverse and intelligent as the CLPA community. I have become bit PO'ed at this hijacking problem in the past, but over time I have learned to ignore some of the hooey and get what I can from those who stay on track. In the long run, the problem folks tire or get veritably booed off the board and in some cases become out of favor with the entire community. Take what is pertinent conversation and ignore those that irk you is the best advice I can give. We ARE all adults, and some folks will never be able to live up to that. There is always someone with an ax to grind, a jab to the ribs, and those with a need to object or interject negatively, and those that just drift while blabbering at the keyboard.....like me~ n~ H^^
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Mike,
I'll be the very first to admit I can push the nerd-o-meter into the geekosphere. But I try to contain my dorkosity to the engineering forum. If I have strayed I apologize.
I hear where you are coming from, but you put engineers in an engineering discussion you will get that. That's how we operate... how our minds have been trained to work.
We put forth an idea and then we set it out to the world for peer review and review by critical thinkers. In fact, I have strived to not just show facts I pulled out of some orifice but to actually show the mathematics and physics.
The other thing I'll put forth is that technical discussions, by nature, tend to evolve. And in aerodynamics this is even more true.
The problem is often that people are asking questions that actually require years of study to understand, and when even the people with the training and experience disagree it should be an indicator of the complexity of the answer!
But hey, we're all in this together. If I'm driving you nuts send me a PM and I'm sure we can work it out.
Chuck
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Hi Chuck
There is no apology needed from you or anyone else. I just get a little frustrated when focus is shifted from what the original poster was seeking to something that seems to be off topic. But as someone else said in this thread maybe that is not a bad thing in the big picture of things if it is a learning experience for everyone and still answers the original posters question. Sometimes I tend to have tunnel vision and fail to see the forest for the trees. I had a teacher once tell me when you think you know all the answers, you have not asked all the questions.
Thank you
Mike
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I've always considered threads on fora to be conversations. Conversations, wonderfully, have a way of finding their own way which may or may not end up being the direction intended by the first person to say "hi, what's happening?" Quite often, in fact, the original question might not be the best way to get where the conversation needs to go. That's more or less why we invite others to join us in the give and take.
Seems like pretty much everybody on the stunt forums is an adult and capable of sifting wheat from chaff. If a response isn't what you're interested in you've got dozens of other places to go look. Let's face it, your not getting billed a couple hundred bucks an hour for the feedback resulting from a minute or two at your keyboard. Count the blessings and simply ignore those that you find unresponsive. I will say, however, that if one chooses to ignore posts freely given by many of the knowledgeable people that frequent these forums it is likely some free gems of stunt wisdom will slip away.
There's a whole lot to know about control systems and when an individual asks a question about one aspect of a system it is almost guaranteed to generate a variety of inputs, most of which have value in and of themselves and from which a newbie can learn a lot...even if they don't hit the originator's specific bullseye. To me that's the beauty of being able to contact a whole bunch of people with a single 60 second typing exercise.
If one is less interested in a fountain of info and prefers a single stream a private message to a knowledgeable source might be a better resource. Of course, one then runs the risk of getting an incorrect response with no source for correction or the possibility of no response at all if the "target" isn't into on line tutoring.
IMHO, any information ancillary to the exact topic requested is a bonus that somebody will learn from. Can't see how that is at all a bad thing.
Just my opinion.
Ted
Well said Ted
I agree with you, I also believe that if you think about it, thread drift is not a bad thing, much info is parted from the large amount of minds, and opinions here, and thread drift is "so much" in the minds of people, some see it directly on target, other see it as way off, Thinking of thread as conversations is a good way to look at it.
AS long as someone doesn't ask how to fix a Honda !
Randy
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Now Mike back to the pushrod question. I think I have used every possible way of doing pushrod connections. Flapped, nonflapped and canards. To make it last now I do ball links cause back in the day it was a Z bend or an L bend with soldered washer as we didn't have the clevises or ball links. Can you imagine a bicycle spoke for a pushrod. Now to clean up my act.
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Well said Ted
I agree with you, I also believe that if you think about it, thread drift is not a bad thing, much info is parted from the large amount of minds, and opinions here, and thread drift is "so much" in the minds of people, some see it directly on target, other see it as way off, Thinking of thread as conversations is a good way to look at it.
AS long as someone doesn't ask how to fix a Honda !
Randy
Randy I would agree with you as long as the original poster's issue was addressed at least by one person (or hopefully more) in the thread.
Mike
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Randy I would agree with you as long as the original poster's issue was addressed at least by one person (or hopefully more) in the thread.
Mike
Hi Mike
I have seen many of these and they most always have the question address by at least one or more people, So hopefully that will continue to be the case.
That is the great thing about this forum, it has a wealth of knowledgeable people here ,and they are always very unselfish about giving their input and knowledge so that others benefit.
Many or most times when there is thread drift , it is information that a lot of people can use. ;D
Regards
Randy
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Good point Randy...I have learned a lot on here....
Mike
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Kuddos, Mr. Griffin, I rely on your posts.
Geno
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It was warm and sunny here, with little wind....I'll go flying at MCRC tomorrow...
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It was warm and sunny here, with little wind....I'll go flying at MCRC tomorrow...
Hmmmmm...Very interesting!
Here in the land of sun and warmth it was only 45 degrees and windy!!
Supposed to be the same tomorrow...Rats.
Randy C.
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Any special tools needed for the timing belt job?
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A good mechanic. Yes I know I drift a lot, The wife keeps telling me that when I start testifying. mw~ mw~
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Hi Mike,
You have your answer. you will not get anyone to stay on the subject when you ask a question.
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LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ VD~ VD~ VD~ VD~
It was sooo beautiful this morning....so I went out and flew my SPORT KITE IN 19degree weather... S?P S?P R%%%% LL~
Just to let YAAAALL' that I PROUDLY hold the all time record....for HIJACKIN' THREADS!!! <= H^^
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Hi everybody.
I assure you I did not delete the thread because I took it personally and do no want anyone to think that. We have an unequaled amount of knowledge on this forum. If you counted up the years of combined knowledge on here it would be in the thousands of years which I am not sure if that is a compliment or not because it implies that most of us, including yours truly, is so old that we fart dust. I am sure we would all agree that Robert has created an invaluable resource for us here on this forum where we can share ideas, report on successes and failures of things we have tried and even show off our latest and greatest model. And yes, when you get a bunch of family together in one spot and everyone is expressing their opinion, you are going to have family spats and even that is OK if you make up and get over it and go on.
We have all sorts of CL people that frequent this forum. There are the real tekkie guys that have backgrounds in math, science, physics and aerodynamics that can discuss things among themselves here on the forum and leave the rest of us scratching ours heads wondering what in the heck they just said. That is when I say hey guys, dumb it down for the rest of us poor slobs out here with a handle in our hand just trying not to crash our Ringmasters.
I have been around long enough on this forum to know that sometimes the posted subject or question some times drifts off in the weeds to la la land and I know that it was not intentional or meant with any malice toward the poster, it probably just triggered something in that person's mind that made he go off in left field. It is like if I posted a question that pertained to pushrod linkages and I truly did not know much about how to rig up the pushrod to the bell crank to the elevator on a flapless ship and have a safe and secure system, so I ask this.."I am getting ready to install my push rod in my Profile plane and I am wondering if I should use a "Z" bend or a clevis or a ball link.
I am not sure which would work the best for me. Can anybody give me so advice?"
Now how many different ideas do you think this man or woman is going to get? A WHOLE LOT and everyone is going to have an opinion. That is OK, it may be a bit confusing to a newbie, but at least if you are sticking to push rod linkage we are OK. Where the problem comes in is when somebody down the thread inserts something like this..." Are you building a plane with no flaps?" "You dont want to do that because you will not be able to make your squares as good with just an elevator. Build something with flaps." And then the debate ensues about flapped ships vs non flapped ships and the poor person who asked the question is hung out to dry.
Now what have you just done to that person? He is thinking what the heck just happened, I asked about how to hook up a push rod and now I am getting a lecture on using flaps and I am a dummy for not building a plane with flaps.
Well enough of this, ladies and gentleman I was not offended by anything anyone posted and I probably should have left the post up but after I had specifically asked to pleas remain on subject, it still was drifting and at that point I thought is was dead so I deleted it. Sparky created this forum and gave the person who starts a post the ability to delete it if they so choose so he must have had a reason to do that.
I do consider this forum "family like" or fraternity like and all I ask is that we do not run good potential people off who want to be in the family by pursuing our own selfish interests In a thread that is not our own.
I hope this made some sense and did not ramble all over the place..
Mike
Makes perfect sense to me, Mike! BW@
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Thanks John
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As to the original post, I thoroughly agree.
Replies should be on topic and concise, this helps not only when searching for answer (and it annoys me no end wading through 9 pages of vague conversation in order to find the actual facts) but also tends to stop conjecture and the spread of misinformation.
But ........... it is up to how the forums are moderated, indeed some sites are deemed more conversational by their owners but woe betide the search for an undisputed answer sometimes!