stunthanger.com
General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Tim Wescott on June 13, 2011, 07:55:00 PM
-
Given your remarks about not knowing what engine size this was for, and the general differences in the condition of this thing and your Avenger, I assume it's either been sitting around in your shop for a very long time, or you got it from someone else.
-
At any rate, if it's your best-beloved first model of which you can admit no criticism, I'm going to have to do some serious groveling. 'Cause I'm ready for a few minor revisions:
-
it seems very ' functional ' . ;D
-
sure looks like a flite streak more than twister
-
sure looks like a flite streak more than twister
D'oh.
On the bright side, no one will notice when I get senile.
-
It's an Aldrichized Twister.
-
I've taken the covering off the wing, so maybe it's a Flight Streaker?
-
Dude,
first off, you associated this with my Avenger,, now ya did it, the Avenger almost came off its hanger trying to get at you for that remark LOL
NO I did NOT build this, it was donated to me in my "early" phase,,( read that as the time when I crashed at every contest LOL)
I simply paid forward, yes its a flight streak,, dont let the brotherhood of the ring guys know I had one, I may be disowned,, ( just for the record, you may fool them if you put an elliptical tail on it,, ya never know)
and Dude, the objective was to bolt on a motor and fly it till it fell apart,, sheesh,, now you go and hack it all up,, sigh,,
oh well, its YOUR airplane now,, I hope it gives you some good service,,
YOu see what I meant about the fuse structure though right? and if you put that fox 35 on there, I am gonna reposess it,, so there,, LOL
Enjoy man,,
-
an additional note,, the rudder was reinforced with that trick carbon tube fillet,, pretty sharp stuff huh, it even kinda could act as a whistle,, which then would make it a FLight Shrieker
-
Tell your Avenger that, on the bright side, it no longer has to share a state with that Flight Streak, much less a hanger.
-
It's an Aldrichized Twister.
LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
...or a "Garfstreak"
-
On another thread I'm receiving a lot of flak from certain low-minded individuals about the advisability of doing this much work on a Flight Streak. Well, I'm not allowing this to hold me back. Much like doing a frame-off restoration on a Chevy Vega or a Ford Falcon, this work demands a certain amount of finesse, and all due respect for the original vehicle.
I'm about done with removing material from the wing; with the exception of some minor clearance slots in the ribs around the broken spars it's going to be all putting wood back on from here.
-
Tell your Avenger that, on the bright side, it no longer has to share a state with that Flight Streak, much less a hanger.
Uh Tim, the flight streak lived in the garage,, ingloriously, not even in the plane rack,, the Avenger,, hangs in the living room, nice and warm dry and protected from the sun ( and the cat!)
-
Yeah Tim, if you are going to restore a plane, may as well do it right. Now you see why most of us replaced the controls on the ARF Streak. Keep us posted. H^^
-
To those of you who have been wondering why I hadn't been posting to this thread, it's because I've been working through a major distraction: a lid for my pickup that'll look nicer than a canopy, be less expensive than a soft cover, and will still be functional. Like this one.
Oh -- and I made some progress on the Flight Streak; I've traced the fuselage (somehow it ended up a bit longer in the tail, fancy that) and I've started building it up by laminating the bowed bottom side. Progress is once again being made, so I may soon have a rejuvenated spare.
-
LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
...or a "Garfstreak"
Do I hear blasphemy afoot?
-
Waiting for glue to dry...
-
This actually fits the wing too well -- it's very snug on the uncovered wing; I'm going to have to open it out somewhat or it'll bind on a covered wing.
I'm thinking of trying something I saw suggested here, I think by Ted Fancher: get everything fit with 1/64" ply wrapped around the wing. Then glue the ply to the fuselage and make the fillets to that. Then glue the wing in with a few dots of glue (I may even see if it makes sense to bolt it in). Then when I crash, the disassembly process can be a bit less severe than the one I used here.
-
I have seen that in the past, using plywood lining the wing slot in the fuse. I think it extended out about 2 inches on each side of fuse. Mainly on foam wings tho. H^^
-
I have seen that in the past, using plywood lining the wing slot in the fuse. I think it extended out about 2 inches on each side of fuse. Mainly on foam wings tho. H^^
It occurred to me that if I can live without fillets (it is just a Flight Streak, after all) I could just do the 'dots -o- glue' with the existing slot. I gotta think about that, though.
-
There's a fuselage in there, under the weights and the spreader board, but above the bench.
-
Tim:
I thought I was the only one who had a work bench that looked like a tornado had hit it. Hey, I see you have a '70 C10. I have one too, but it is sort of all ratted out.
Jim Fruit
-
It's a 69, and we lucked out with it. The front end needed considerable work when we got it -- the previous owner had apparently been driving by braille, so it had some truly impressive damage. The left front frame horn is still tweaked from where he hit a truck.
The problem with my bench is that I've been building planes without cleaning in between projects -- I've just kind of shoved the detritus aside, and continued on being productive. I can't do that for much longer.
My bench has been clean in the past: here's how it looks when I'm building for publication.
-
Tim:
Now you did it. I have to go and clean up my work bench. I attached a picture of my '70. It is all new from the firewall foreward also
Jim Fruit
-
Jim:
Oh, you meant my truck was kinda ratty. That it is. Its in good mechanical shape, but it's a work truck. If it looked as good as yours I wouldn't be able to haul manure and gravel and stuff.
Yesterday's progress was to get the front doublers on. I'm using light ply. Yes, I'm expecting that it won't be as durable -- I'm interested in finding out how much less durable it's going to be.
This is the second built-up profile fuselage I've done, and the first that looks like it's going to actually work (I screwed up on the first one and made the grain on the sides vertical. D'oh).
-
Tim, so let me get this straight, you are deliberatly building something into this that you know will fail, you just want to find out when it will fail,, sheesh dude, there was already lots of that stuff built into this plane before you started,, you didnt need to go to all that trouble LOL
with the lite ply, ( which I believe is not a good idea personally) make Sure you put some kind of pad under the engine mount lugs, aluminum pads work good, make them larger than the mount lug on the engine to distribute the load. You may also consider putting some short sections of tubing in the bolt holes through the wood mounts to prevent crushing of the light ply, it will crush,,
-
Tim, so let me get this straight, you are deliberatly building something into this that you know will fail, you just want to find out when it will fail,, sheesh dude, there was already lots of that stuff built into this plane before you started,, you didnt need to go to all that trouble LOL
I'm taking the Lotus Cars approach: I'm building it way light, seeing what breaks, beefing up just that area, then going on to the next thing. After all, the British are so very good at building reliable cars, why should I not follow their lead?
I think it'll hold up to everyday flying. It's everyday crashing that it may have problems with.
with the lite ply, ( which I believe is not a good idea personally) make Sure you put some kind of pad under the engine mount lugs, aluminum pads work good, make them larger than the mount lug on the engine to distribute the load. You may also consider putting some short sections of tubing in the bolt holes through the wood mounts to prevent crushing of the light ply, it will crush,,
I've undercut the ply in the area of the motor mounts and T nuts -- the engine and T nuts bear directly on the motor mounts, not on the lite ply at all.
-
I'm taking the Lotus Cars approach: I'm building it way light, seeing what breaks, beefing up just that area, then going on to the next thing. After all, the British are so very good at building reliable cars, why should I not follow their lead?
Tim I take it you have never actually owned a British car then? Let alone a Lotus,,, D>K
-
Tim I take it you have never actually owned a British car then? Let alone a Lotus.
Hey! My dad used to work on Loti. He had a regular customer with a Lotus Elite who brought it in every 20-50 thousand miles to have the suspension stripped out and the rear mounts rebuilt from new fiberglass.
So I really don't get your point, here.
He'd store them at our house (against thievery? I don't know) and I'd run the windows up and down until the batteries went dry. I think the Europa with the great big star crack over the driver's head was the most impressive (particularly since I would have been about 9, and I remember seeing it by looking down at the roof of the car).
-
I've undercut the ply in the area of the motor mounts and T nuts -- the engine and T nuts bear directly on the motor mounts, not on the lite ply at all.
I started to do that too, but I found some real hard[heavy] 1/16" ply, and used that on my builtup clown fuse. Why didn't you cover over the t-nuts[with the plywood] on the backside?
-
Why didn't you cover over the t-nuts[with the plywood] on the backside?
Actually I did. I just didn't mention it.
-
Tim, Lucas electrics have a tendancy to be rather fickle, hence my comment since you were comparing british car "reliability" with your plane?
-
Of course, if I were pulling your leg I would surely put a smiley face on the post.
Really.
-
Now Tim, its not nice to mess with the gift horse,, LOL
-
Tim, Lucas electrics have a tendancy to be rather fickle, hence my comment since you were comparing british car "reliability" with your plane?
As us British have known for years LUCAS actually is an acronym for
Loose Unsoldered Connections And Splices
TTFN
John.
-
As us British have known for years ............
John.
That's funny, you don't sound British! LL~
-
It's a good thing I don't feel like I'm under any pressure to get this thing perfect.
-
Well....that looks fairly easy. ;D
-
ey Tim, I have a flight streak KIT that you could have started with, sheesh, LOL,,
-
Hey, it took me less time to build up that stab than it would have to drive into town in a futile attempt to find wood lighter than what I have here.
-
Depending on the power plant, you bewishing for more tail weight. LL~ LL~
-
Very good point, John. I use 3/16 for my Streak tail feathers. Much stronger and it balances right.
-
It's starting to look like a real plane...
-
TWO WHEELS!!! Sacrilege!!! Probably won't have a Fox, either. Oh, well, at least if I launch for you, you won't crash.
-
It's starting to look like a real plane...
Startin to look real purty! ;D
-
Best Streaks were powered with K&B .35 Greenhead and no landing gear. The hay field was my flying area. The Streak is looking better. H^^
-
Leave it to an engineer to get completely carried away. Dude, it's a Flight Streak. You're suppose to fly it, pound it into the ground, CA it back together and fly it again. Repeat until you can do the whole pattern. THEN build something cool.
Sheesh!
;D
-
Leave it to an engineer to get completely carried away. Dude, it's a Flight Streak. You're suppose to fly it, pound it into the ground, CA it back together and fly it again. Repeat until you can do the whole pattern. THEN build something cool.
Sheesh!
;D
Randy, thats kinda what I said too, heck all it needed was a motor and tank,, sigh,, it wasnt pretty but it would have survived long enough for training, heck its more "engineered " now than my Electrajet,, LOL,,
Tim,, dont make it so purty your afraid to crash it, that was the goal dude! LOL,,
ok so not the crashing, but the not being afraid to crash,,
oh and so there is no misconception, I intimatly know what happens when you build pretty planes before you can fly well,, Randy, how many pretty planes did I destroy in the last few years LOL,, and how many people told me exactly that, build something ugly, fly the crap out of it, and THEN build something pretty,, but NO not me,, sigh,, well live and learn, now I just need to get brave enough to really FLY the Avenger,, sigh
-
Tim, while we are at it, ( harrasing you that is) the ONE part I didnt like, the triangular canopy, is the part you decide to keep, really? sigh, oh well,,
-
Randy, thats kinda what I said too, heck all it needed was a motor and tank,, sigh,, it wasnt pretty but it would have survived long enough for training, heck its more "engineered " now than my Electrajet,, LOL,,
Tim,, dont make it so purty your afraid to crash it, that was the goal dude! LOL,,
ok so not the crashing, but the not being afraid to crash,,
oh and so there is no misconception, I intimatly know what happens when you build pretty planes before you can fly well,, Randy, how many pretty planes did I destroy in the last few years LOL,, and how many people told me exactly that, build something ugly, fly the crap out of it, and THEN build something pretty,, but NO not me,, sigh,, well live and learn, now I just need to get brave enough to really FLY the Avenger,, sigh
But I like building pretty planes. Besides, this turned into a nifty experiment in building rigid, hollow fuselages.
And you still haven't seen it finished -- it may yet turn out to be ugly.
Tim, while we are at it, ( harrasing you that is) the ONE part I didnt like, the triangular canopy, is the part you decide to keep, really? sigh, oh well,,
I didn't want to be accused of replacing the fuselage, so I kept part of it.
-
Tim, while we are at it, ( harrasing you that is) the ONE part I didnt like, the triangular canopy, is the part you decide to keep, really? sigh, oh well,,
I must defer to your better judgment, of course.
Is this better?
-
Or maybe this?
-
a hello Kitty flight streak, yeah now your talking, I DARE you to show up at a contest with a leather jacket on, and fly your hello kitty flight streak,,
-
and for the record, you better be nice or I will tell the goon squad over at the brotherhood of the ringmaster site that you are lavishing way to much attention on a flight streak, it wont be long before Guido the enforcer of the brotherhood comes knocking on your door,,
-
A Ringmaster is next -- honest!
-
Tell you what, Tim. Suppose I give you a ready to fly plane. One that just needs and engine and prop. Then you, say, go out and fly the snot out of it and learn the pattern?
Just so happens I have a Banshee (sans flaps even) that has never been flown. Been hanging on my wall for like 10 years. It's set up for an OS 35. Just bolt one on and fly it. I could bring it to the Raider Roundup. What do you say?
-
Tell you what, Tim. Suppose I give you a ready to fly plane. One that just needs and engine and prop. Then you, say, go out and fly the snot out of it and learn the pattern?
Just so happens I have a Banshee (sans flaps even) that has never been flown. Been hanging on my wall for like 10 years. It's set up for an OS 35. Just bolt one on and fly it. I could bring it to the Raider Roundup. What do you say?
I haven't run out of planes yet. Besides, I have a history of making (ahem) minor modifications to planes that are given to me.
-
I think I'm not man enough for a Hello Kitty plane -- at least not if it's going to fail to induce vomiting among the spectators.
Maybe this.
-
Tim, get a plane, mount a motor, fuel fire fly,, sheesh,,
Randy, it looks like he needs an intervention, what say you,, who can we get for a therapist do you think? maybe you could fill in with your background,,
-
I'm still gonna try to get him to take the Banshee. Sucker has been sitting there mocking me for a very long time. It was originally intended for my son to fly, but he lost interest and so it has sat. It really needs a home. I built it without flaps mostly because I wanted to simplify probably repairs.
Come on, Tim. It's yours if you want it. Oh, you will have to put an AMA number on the wing and you can modify it all you want. Just fly the thing.
-
I'm still gonna try to get him to take the Banshee. Sucker has been sitting there mocking me for a very long time. It was originally intended for my son to fly, but he lost interest and so it has sat. It really needs a home. I built it without flaps mostly because I wanted to simplify probably repairs.
Come on, Tim. It's yours if you want it. Oh, you will have to put an AMA number on the wing and you can modify it all you want. Just fly the thing.
I'll take it, and be grateful.
So, what do y'all think about a biker "Hello Kitty", all dressed in leather and with a bow made of barbed wire?
-
I think you need to breath MORE nitro fumes, and less CA fumes,,
though I have to admit, a Biker hello kitty might work,, do you have a pair of cuffs for the kitty too?
-
I dunno -- cuffs would be so "village people". Although I was thinking that she'd need at least one wallet-chain.
-
Is there something in the air in you guys part of the country? LL~ LL~ LL~
-
Is there something in the air in you guys part of the country?
What, you never put thought into your pilot figures?
-
putting thought is one thing, but maybe we are getting a bit carried away,. the wallet chains will be kinda heavy, maybe a leather studded collar instead?
Doc, air? no, its the water,, its all the dang water,,
-
and for the record, you better be nice or I will tell the goon squad over at the brotherhood of the ringmaster site that you are lavishing way to much attention on a flight streak, it wont be long before Guido the enforcer of the brotherhood comes knocking on your door,,
Actually it will be Big Bear and G-Man coming to visit...........
;D
-
Sheesh Bill, I was trying to keep you guys anonomys,, oh well, now they all know you are the ringmaster police,, I bet G-man is squirming seeing Tim put so much time into a lowly flight streak dontcha think?
-
So Tim, are you coming to the Raider Roundup in September or do I have to wait for the Fall Follies?
Hey, my last pilot was a drug dealer, ah, I mean, alleged drug dealer. The one before that was a TMNT.
-
My intent is to come up to the Raider Roundup. I'm not keeping up with the work at the moment, which is why I didn't even try to make it up to Auburn, but Chehalis is closer.
-
PSSSSTTT news flash, the Raider Roundup will be in Auburn this year from what I hear
-
PSSSSTTT news flash, the Raider Roundup will be in Auburn this year from what I hear
Argh. That makes it more likely that I won't show. We'll see.
-
Well, I'll bring it with me and if you're there, you're there.
-
Lest anyone think that all I'm doing is trying to select the pilot figure that'll get the maximum rise out of Mark, and complain about contests being too far away: I've just vandalized a perfectly good arrow shaft for a push rod.
edit
And a weight box
-
All this work for a simple airplane. But, I have seen guys do more. H^^
-
Doc, you never saw my twister,, I am a poster child for this nonsense, alas, thats why I am trying to convince Tim to do otherwise, but then I never listened so why should he,, sigh,,
-
But I like building. I'll admit, I did get a bit carried away.
-
How's this one?
So -- should I put in adjustable leadouts?
-
But I like building. I'll admit, I did get a bit carried away.
I like it.....don't beat yerself up about it. H^^
-
How's this one?
So -- should I put in adjustable leadouts?
Yep, and a tip weight box.
Big Bear
-
Tim do you have the variable pitch prop installed yet? what about the retractable gear,, S?P H^^
-
Oh! Retracts! Man, I hadn't thought about that yet -- that's a great idea!
-
Oh! Retracts! Man, I hadn't thought about that yet -- that's a great idea!
I'm working on a basic system of shock absorbing landing gear...... :!
-
I'm working on a basic system of shock absorbing landing gear...... :!
Actually, I've found that props, canopies and rudders absorb shock pretty well -- once.
-
Needle valves too....don't forget the needle valves. Helps protect the paint on the top of the profile fuse during inverted landings.
-
Sheesh Bill, I was trying to keep you guys anonomys,, oh well, now they all know you are the ringmaster police,, I bet G-man is squirming seeing Tim put so much time into a lowly flight streak dontcha think?
Brother Mark,
A fella could get excommunicated from the BOTR for even mentioning a "Flite Whatever it is"....... Also, remember that I am a charter member of the Mountain Mafia.
Big Bear
-
I've been distracted from the Flight Streak, most lately by the Beginner's Ringmaster which I'm building because I was distracted from building an S-1 Ringmaster by -- the Flight Streak.
Anyway, I'm waiting for paint to dry on the BGM, so I grabbed the Flight Streak and was about to start slapping MinWax Polycrylic on it when I realized that I had yet to put in the tail wheel reinforcing (necessary because of the hollow fuse). It would have been much easier if I'd done it from the start but -- here it is. One hole through aircraft, one dowel. When the glue dries and I get it sanded out, I'll drill a 1/16" hole in the dowel for the tail wheel leg, and -- ta da -- I'll be set.
Now I'm waiting for stuff to dry on two airplanes. Dang. I may need to go clean my bench or something.
-
So Tim, are you going to be at the contest this weekend? Should I bring the Banshee?
-
Nope. Drive's too long, I'm too busy. I expect to be at Salem in October, barring gale-force winds or other deleterious weather.
-
Banshee? Now he's going to rebuild a Banshee?
-
They have to keep him busy. LL~ LL~ LL~
-
Distraction done -- one coat of Minwax Polycrylic has been applied -- now I just need to wait for dry, and sand, and paint, and sand, and paint.
-
OK, Tim. I should make it to the Fall Follies. I'll bring it. We can't have you with idle hands.
-
Paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, paint, spackle, sand.
(I gotta go out and buy more spackle -- maybe on the way home from flying a little bitty plane tomorrow).
I'm not sure if I can finish this job without Mark S. lamenting the amount of work I'm putting into it -- oh well, I'll have to find strength somewhere.
-
You know, if it were a ringmaster I could see the effort, but really ,,,,, a Flight streak,, egads,, will the torture never end,,
-
You know, if it were a ringmaster I could see the effort, but really ,,,,, a Flight streak,, egads,, will the torture never end,,
Think of it as practice so I'll get it right when I do the Ringmaster.
-
Not only is he overworking, but I hear he has added a two wheel gear. I'm bringing a stick to beat him.
-
Uh -- if it'll avoid a beating, I guess it's not too late for me to make at a trike gear.
-
That's OK, Tim. I'll launch for you and if our past record holds, at least you won't crash. No matter how many wheels.
-
maybe wheels on top and bottom,, that way you got it covered,,
-
I was thinking of embedding a really thin wheel in the canopy, as a joke.
-
Primered, at least the acrylic part. Imperfect, but it's more than good enough for a Flight Streak. I'm trying out "Miller-Prime" acrylic primer, because it's white and I can tell when I'm sanding through it! It has a couple of spots where the adhesion isn't perfect -- I hope that's from not cleaning things well; if it's from some other cause I may have one ugly airplane in a month or two.
Now I'm gonna squirt on one coat of Rustoleum white primer for cover, then Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel white for a base coat, with red for trim (and if the red doesn't match the film covering -- cest la vie). Then it'll be graphics, decals, and clear coat over the decals, and away I'll go!!
Oh -- and a tank. A short and fat tank. If I'm doing the math right, 2-1/2 ounces on an LA 25 or an FP 20 should get me through the whole pattern with fuel to spare -- possible enough fuel to spare that I'll overrun.
-
So, to sum up, you took a plane that you were supposed to just fly the heck out of and instead, cannibalized it for parts, built a new plane that you are putting a ton of effort into and will make pretty, right?
So, I still have a Banshee with your name on it.
-
So, to sum up, you took a plane that you were supposed to just fly the heck out of and instead, cannibalized it for parts, built a new plane that you are putting a ton of effort into and will make pretty, right?
Now, that's a rather extreme way of putting things. There isn't a part of that plane that doesn't have at least some of the original wood in it. I've just done some repairs here and there.
So, I still have a Banshee with your name on it.
Yea, too bad you couldn't go to the Follies (even without the Banshee). Saturday was good, and I rather suspect that Sunday was a lot better than the weather reports were predicting.
I've got an engine that may work for that. And I promise that I won't touch a hair on its little head, unless I feel like it.
-
Hey, rip it to shreds and rebuild it if you like. The point here was to get you a plane that you could PRACTICE on. We already know you have building skills. The Banshee has been hanging on my shop wall for 12 years. My son last flew it when he was 15. Seem to fly OK then, but it has been hanging on the wall a long time. Probably need to be recovered (or at least patched here and there), but it flies.
-
No runs! Woo hoo! (Simple pleasures for simple minds).
(Russel, if you're following this, I've got one coat of primer on this with almost complete coverage of the various colors of spots in the sanded white primer. So -- Rustoleum metal primer covers pretty well. I guess you can't get coverage _and_ gloss).
-
Actually, you really can get both coverage and gloss and in only one coat. It's called "dipping". Never seen it done on an airplane, though.
-
Russell,,
NO
-
Ooh! Ooh! http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip
-
Tim,
by all means, go ahead,, Heck they say that beginner is the most fun anyway, and with this TANK your going to dip,, It will help you stay there where its fun forever,, HB~>
-
OK. Maybe I'm going a wee bit overboard on this project. Dirty Dan told me I'd be smart to just put a 3 oz Hayes tank on the outboard side, and fly the heck out of it. But I've got a nice decal planned for that particular expanse of white paint, and paint won't stick to polyethylene at all, so I'm taking an alternative path. The Hayes tank remains an option if this idea turns out to be as stupid as it's shaping up to be.
A short, fat tank, and wasn't I proud that I avoided the landing gear quite nicely with no extreme measures necessary! Too bad that landing gear needs to be held down. This tank reminds me about the tree-swing cartoon ("What what sales sold, what engineering designed, what manufacturing made, what service installed, ... what the customer wanted").
(Mark, I'm remembering your wry observations about engineers and "little details" at Puyallup. Just think how bad it would be if we didn't try to avoid all the little problems).
-
I usually put a block of wood under the tank, so it will clear the landing gear. And if the gear is towards the rear of the tank, even better as it moves the rear of the tank out further. H^^
-
I usually put a block of wood under the tank, so it will clear the landing gear. And if the gear is towards the rear of the tank, even better as it moves the rear of the tank out further. H^^
Now someone tells me...
I'm not sure why I didn't think of that, although space on this is so tight that I don't know that it would have fit. And anyway, I already built the tank so the outside ridge of the tank kicks out 1/4" at the back.
-
And I will hold onto the Banshee for you. You can take it apart and rebuild it too. LL~
-
And I will hold onto the Banshee for you. You can take it apart and rebuild it too. LL~
I know. Too bad I never get up to the Seattle area or I'd show up at your door one day.
-
Finally getting the Ultracoat on. This isn't just because I'm spending extra time on the plane -- it's because right now I'm spending all my extra time on family and work!!
Sharp-eyed readers will notice that the Ultracoat appears to be brighter than the fuselage paint -- that's because it is. Anyone who thinks "white is white" needs to look at a chip book.
And, I learned a Valuable Lesson the other night, when I was painting the tail: if you make a humongous run in the paint, don't grab a @#% shop rag and wipe it off, thinking that the primer won't come with it. D'oh. Boy am I glad I made this particular mistake on this plane, instead of something that really mattered!
-
Hey! Maybe I should just go flying!
Nah, it needs at least some trim.
-
According to Allen Brickhaus, you just squirt the paint on with no surface prep of the 'coat. Dang but I'm trusting (I'm thinking I shoulda wiped it down with thinner or alcohol, just to take the fingerprints off -- too late now!!).
My spray-bomb was spitting a bit. Dang but I hate painting from spray cans. My shop really needs a compressor. And a gun. And at least an excuse for a spray booth. Dang.
Now to wait for it to tack up a bit (this is another Brickhaus thing -- take off the masking tape before the paint has thoroughly cured. This is weird to me, but he says it works...)
-
It depends on lthe paint. Just pulled the tape off a dope finish that had set for several days as it was taking several coats to cover. On automotive colors I pull the tape as soon as I can clean up equipment as I get good coverage with them. H^^
-
I understand the reasoning -- it's just weird to me.
The full method was to pull off the tape (which you put on without doing anything to seal), then go over the model with a modified (well, a couple of dozen of them in my case) q-tip dipped in thinner to clean up the inevitable "oopsies". It works well. I very much doubt that I can either do as well with it as I could with dope, or as well as Allen does (at least, if I ever see one of his planes in person and the lines are as crappy as mine are, I'll be surprised).
Oh, I wish I had a decent paint shop. Spray-bomb just doesn't give a good pattern, some of the painting is a bit light where I couldn't see as well as I thought I could because of insufficient light in my "spray porch", and the only lightly used can of red spray-bomb had some goobers in the cap that spat out onto my paint.
I want a gun that I can clean 100%, I want a booth with decent lighting, I want a compressor, I want, I want, I want.
-
Ready for nose art.
-
I should probably be thankful that I'm partially color blind, and really can't tell how poorly the Monocoat matches the Rustoleum.
-
Don't need a spray gun to get really nice finishes. Just lots of elbow grease and good brushes, plus the right materials. D>K
-
Don't need a spray gun to get really nice finishes. Just lots of elbow grease and good brushes, plus the right materials. D>K
I know, and if I don't get all my ducks in a row (I got a compressor yesterday!!) before the next plane gets finished I think it'll have a brushed-on finish. Or rattle-can, and regrets.
But you sure can get a nice finish a whole lot faster out of a spray gun.
I'm spoiled: in my teens I was the painter for my dad's shop. Of course, for the most part all I was spraying was rust-inhibiting primer onto steel bars, but I painted a couple of models with that spray gun, and put down (and sanded off) the primer on a few plugs for molds. It spoiled me for life, I think.
-
And I get flak for blah-blah about stuff like this!
That nose art that is so beloved ought go on the tail of the model. More appropriate.
And then you won't mind strapping a Hayes 3-ounce tank to left side of fuselage.
Model looks to come out tail-heavy. What ya want is a balance point 1 5/8" behind LE.
Adjust elevator travel to get turn rate you want.
Hang model from its leadouts. Adjust leadout position to get fuselage to hang 3 degrees nose down.
Do these 3 steps and model will be close to optimum trim. Honest...
Avoid temptation of .012-inch lines. Too much stretch. You'll surely go ahead and try the light lines. Every time the model comes out of a hard corner and bounces on exit, think well of me. Then go to .015" lines, something on the order of 62 to 64 feet center-to-center.
To tie this model to the BOM discussion, you can surely fly it in all NW contests. Not only that, it is eligible--and ought be competitive--in Classic, Profile and your chosen class of AMA.
As to appearance points, clearly not. Regardless of the work and time invested this model began life as an ARF and there is simply no way to change that fact.
I'll give you a heads-up. While it's gone now, at one point in time I decided to do an ARF Flite Streak the right way and it was amazing the stuff which didn't pass muster. Long story short, it ended up being called TWMLIARFFS (The World's Most Labor Intensive ARF Flite Streak). It fully deserved the name.
Although it was not flown frequently in contests, when it was I made absolutely certain the judges knew the model had been birthed as an ARF, despite the fact that it looked as if it had been built from plans.
Dan
-
And I get flak for blah-blah about stuff like this!
That nose art that is so beloved ought go on the tail of the model. More appropriate.
Dang. I just painted the tail bright red two days ago. I have some white-backed decal paper; I'll think of whether I can cut the decal out to look right.
And then you won't mind strapping a Hayes 3-ounce tank to left side of fuselage.
Model looks to come out tail-heavy. What ya want is a balance point 1 5/8" behind LE.
Adjust elevator travel to get turn rate you want.
Hang model from its leadouts. Adjust leadout position to get fuselage to hang 3 degrees nose down.
Do these 3 steps and model will be close to optimum trim. Honest...
I made a built-up stab, and extended the tail by an inch. I expect that to help, but to offset that I've made a weight box for the tail (so you know it's going to remain empty...)
Avoid temptation of .012-inch lines. Too much stretch. You'll surely go ahead and try the light lines. Every time the model comes out of a hard corner and bounces on exit, think well of me. Then go to .015" lines, something on the order of 62 to 64 feet center-to-center.
No problem there -- I have 700' of .015 line, and no 0.012!
To tie this model to the BOM discussion, you can surely fly it in all NW contests. Not only that, it is eligible--and ought be competitive--in Classic, Profile and your chosen class of AMA.
As to appearance points, clearly not. Regardless of the work and time invested this model began life as an ARF and there is simply no way to change that fact.
Noooooooo! I've sworn off of BOM discussions -- I'll wait until I'm way more established to jump back in, if ever.
I'll give you a heads-up. While it's gone now, at one point in time I decided to do an ARF Flite Streak the right way and it was amazing the stuff which didn't pass muster. Long story short, it ended up being called TWMLIARFFS (The World's Most Labor Intensive ARF Flite Streak). It fully deserved the name.
Although it was not flown frequently in contests, when it was I made absolutely certain the judges knew the model had been birthed as an ARF, despite the fact that it looked as if it had been built from plans.
Yup.
-
All painting done, even those bits and bobs that I could have painted a long time ago if I'd only been paying attention. There's just nothing like setting down a nicely painted plane on its stand, dusting off one's hands, and noticing three little hatch doors, a fuel tank and a landing gear set, all sitting there unpainted.
The glue on the elevator is wet. Once it dries I can put together the control system. Then I can wait a week for the paint to dry enough that I can assemble everything and not worry about it all sticking together. !!!
Hopefully we'll have nice weather over the Christmas break, and extra-hopefully on he 1st.
-
That's a goodern Tim. H^^
-
All painting done, even those bits and bobs that I could have painted a long time ago if I'd only been paying attention. There's just nothing like setting down a nicely painted plane on its stand, dusting off one's hands, and noticing three little hatch doors, a fuel tank and a landing gear set, all sitting there unpainted.
Or going to do a spot of assembly on what you thought was your completely painted plane, and picking up the unpainted control rod.
AAAAAAAAAGH!
-
And does it weigh 70oz? LL~
-
I would check, but I don't want to paint the scale.
-
And does it weigh 70oz? LL~
snicker,, Randy thats not nice,,
-
Hmmmm............... painted tanks, control rods, etc., .............
I thought this was a practice plane......... ???
(just yanking your chain!)
Big Bear
-
It's my practice plane twice: I'm trying out painting techniques on it before I go and risk building a competition plane that'll end up all shabby and ugly looking (or heavy -- I really do appreciate that insight, Randy. I think). Once that's done, then I'm gonna go
crash, uh, practice with it.
-
Tim, just so you know ,,
I had the same idea a couple times, I soon discovered however, that practicing painting on a plane intended to fly wasnt a great idea, the first one ended up rather heavy, and as such basically was useless as a practice plane,, ( well at least for any more than level flight LOL)
a GOOD practice plane should be minimal investment, easy to repair , and fly well,,
practice painting on your rubber band powered planes, weight isn't as important on them LOL LL~
-
Repair will be easy, if I don't mind it getting a bit ugly (my general in-season repair policy is to put priority on just getting the thing flying, and worry about looks when I have time).
The all-up weight of all the pieces is about 32 ounces (including the motor + prop). Compare that to my Skyray which is a hair over 34 ounces.
So I think I'm doing OK.
Normally when I build a plane, if I'm really serious, I weigh everything that goes into it. By magic, this keeps the weight down. Also normally, at some point in the process I forget to keep weighing, and the weight gain for that step is tremendous. I need to remember to keep that scale handy when I paint the next plane...
-
Tim,
I'm pulling for you, but there is no way that model will come across the scales at a mere 32 ounces!
At least not when you get it balanced at my suggested 1 5/8" setting.
The good news is that a properly-powered (20FP w/BB T-U) Skyray is pushing the limit but not over it at 34 ounces and I suspect the Flite Streak will net approximately equal results.
Prove me wrong on the weight--I certainly trust you to provide an honest reading of the scales.
Dan
P.S. Ya might want to lay in some 25% fuel. dan
-
+ 1.5 oz with a brass spinner nut, and it's pretty darn close (the wrong way, but still close). Man, this would have been easier in so many ways if that nose were an inch longer. Live and learn...
(This is the first time I've had the gear and the engine on at the same time -- every hard landing is going to mash the LG wire into the muffler. Hopefully it won't hurt the muffler. It'll certainly munge up my nice white paint).
I've got an LA 25 on the Skyray -- I may swap engines. Not only will that make the Streak red, white and blue, but it'll go faster. I can leave the CG a bit back and have a fast, twitchy "reflex trainer". For a little while, at least.
-
Uh-huh...
Something Brett has preached for years is that trim is far more important than weight. And he is right. Once a model is complete the fight over weight is done and it's on to trimming.
You didn't mention actual balance point but if we're talking about another 1/2 ounce--even a full ounce--to get it right I fail to see a problem with all-up weight. Rounds certainly won't be an issue. You might not like square 8s overmuch but that merely means flying them big while conserving energy (don't bang the corners real hard).
The place to be aware of is the 3rd corner in the triangles and even here above advice will serve you well.
Besides, if this is truly to be a trainer for Stunt flying, it begs to be trimmed for Stunt-like flight, not a Show-biz demonstration of reflexes and derring-do.
Dan
-
Uh-huh...
Something Brett has preached for years is that trim is far more important than weight. And he is right. Once a model is complete the fight over weight is done and it's on to trimming.
You didn't mention actual balance point but if we're talking about another 1/2 ounce--even a full ounce--to get it right I fail to see a problem with all-up weight. Rounds certainly won't be an issue. You might not like square 8s overmuch but that merely means flying them big while conserving energy (don't bang the corners real hard).
That makes sense. The balance point is within 1/4", so another 1/2oz or ounce should do.
Besides, if this is truly to be a trainer for Stunt flying, it begs to be trimmed for Stunt-like flight, not a Show-biz demonstration of reflexes and derring-do.
The "reflex trainer" comment came about because there seems to be a contingent of ex-combat flyers who recommend having at least one way-fast plain in the inventory, because after you do the pattern with that "the regular stunt pattern will seem to take hours".
I dunno if that's good advise or not -- and I'm going to start by seeing how this thing trims up as a stunt plane, first.
-
Yes, I have heard the go-fast theory and while it may have merit, such is hardly a universal practice. It doesn't do much for me personally. Besides, once a Stunt model is well and truly trimmed--and here we're talking about line size, line length, handle spacing, motor run characteristics and so on in addition model-centric considerations--it will soon come to seem slow.
The trick is to develop your timing. Just going fast does little in this regard.
However, you may want to try flying various models on lines shorter than that which has been determined to be ideal for actual Stunt flying. A mere 4-foot reduction will speed things up while not totally ruining the trim. Again, doesn't do much for me but it is an approach worth considering, especially as one need not make much in the way of changes when going from "long" to "short" lines. You might even discover that you prefer lines longer than your buddies suggest, which for the model under discussion is generally 60 feet, centerline to centerline. In my view too short by some 2 to 4 feet...
Dan
-
I finally got a chance to really fly this today. I had wanted a wheel attachment system that was nicer than the usual wheel collar, less permanent (and less likely to melt wheels) than the soldered-on washer, and more reliable than the epoxied-on washer (which doesn't seem to work for me). Instead, I invented a wheel detachment system. So for a couple of weeks there every time I went flying I'd lose a wheel on the first flight. Then, when I flew on the 1st (and lost a wheel) one of my fellow Fireballs pointed out a method used by RC guys, to solder on a bit of brass tube and use an itty bitty cotter pin. It works great, but all the messing around meant that I lost all my good weather days and I had to wait for months to fly.
So: it seems to fly OK. It doesn't turn as not as nice as the Skyray -- I don't know if this is weight, aerodynamics, or just because I'm as rusty as can be (I am not flying as well as I was in December). But now I have two tested and flyable planes in the stable, and another on the way. So maybe I'll last out the 2012 season without running out of planes.
-
But now I have two tested and flyable planes in the stable, and another on the way. So maybe I'll last out the 2012 season without running out of planes.
the whole season with two airplanes,, man, you are either conservative, or your getting better faster than I did LOL,,
glad you have it flying Tim,, I have another donor here for you,,LA 25 size,, this one will justify some cosmetic work I suppose,,
-
the whole season with two airplanes,, man, you are either conservative, or your getting better faster than I did LOL,,
glad you have it flying Tim,, I have another donor here for you,,LA 25 size,, this one will justify some cosmetic work I suppose,,
I made it through last year with just the Skyray and the Waiex -- but it was a close-run thing, with a few practice days missed while I was doing repairs. I had really intended to get a scratch-built Skyray done this winter, but paying work intervened.
-
Payiing work interferes with construction of a Sky Ray??? LL~ LL~ LL~ I did one in less than three days using Plastic covering. I am slow also. H^^
-
I made it through last year with just the Skyray and the Waiex -- but it was a close-run thing, with a few practice days missed while I was doing repairs. I had really intended to get a scratch-built Skyray done this winter, but paying work intervened.
Tim,
You should rip the wing out of the Streak and stick it in a SkyRay fuse. It will fly much better. And you may have more nose space. S?P
-
The turning problem is because it was way nose heavy. I'm not sure if I just fly way different from Dan, or if the longer tail made a huge difference, or what -- but I went from brass spinner to aluminum spinner, to some weight in the tail. Before I just could not get it to turn -- now the thing is balanced just ahead of the spar, and it flies good. I may still take a tad of weight out of the tail -- but I may put some in, too.
(With the new CG it also has the leadouts way forward -- oops. We'll fix that before the next day-o-flying. Thank goodness for adjustable leadouts).
-
What works is self-defining, especially if you are comfortable with the model.
That said I have enough faith in the 2 5/8" from LE setting for balance that if a given Flite Streak didn't turn well I would be looking to other reasons for it being whacked. Elevator travel would be first on the list but I am suspicious of the line spacing at your handle. You once mentioned having to use so much down that the handle leadouts fouled each other. Big clue but maybe not a deal-killer.
I think you used a CF pushrod but I would still check here for flex.
For reference I can assure you that hard corners are my preference so there would not seem to be an issue of style involved here.
Dan
(The 2 5/8" dimension noted above is clearly incorrect. It should read 1 5/8". dan)
-
CF pushrod that runs from where the wire exits the wing back to about an inch in front of the elevator horn, and full elevator deflection is a bit short of +/- 45 degrees. I would assume that if I let it have any more deflection it'd just turn into an airbrake. At the starting CG point the plane would be hanging on the up (or down) line and square corners would mostly be recognizable because of where the maneuver came in the pattern, and sometimes because of the short straight parts in between the big swoopy corners.
Scott Riese gave me two 1/10th-ounce weights at the contest on Saturday (thank you, Scott), before my two aborted flights in NW Profile. Two weights makes it really jumpy, one makes it turn not quite hard enough (probably, but I may end up back there). I have one and a half weights in there now and while the plane is still a bit jumpy in level flight it is at least a better compromise than with either one or two full ones.
By the "turns tight enough" symptom my CG is correct, and I'm willing to discount jumpiness in level flight as being pilot error. But it does tend to slow down and float a bit when the engine cuts -- so I may need to let the CG go forward.
At the moment I'm planning on playing with line spacing with the weight I have. If that doesn't calm it down then I'll juggle line spacing and more weight (probably in 1-gram increments, or even less) and see where I end up.
-
Tim, it would be really advantageous to spend some time really watching and studying the track made by the airplane when other people fly. I know myself, I was trying to obtain a corner that is neither obtainable, nor is it advantageous. I had envisioned a super tight corner and worked towards that goal. however a nice reasonable corner followed by a locked in flat is far prettier and will score far higher than a lightening bolt super sharp corner with wiggles after,,
-
Tim, it would be really advantageous to spend some time really watching and studying the track made by the airplane when other people fly. I know myself, I was trying to obtain a corner that is neither obtainable, nor is it advantageous. I had envisioned a super tight corner and worked towards that goal. however a nice reasonable corner followed by a locked in flat is far prettier and will score far higher than a lightening bolt super sharp corner with wiggles after,,
Yes, I should, and yes, I may be trying to turn too tight. But I'm not kidding when I said that before the weight in the tail this thing would literally have barely any time to show a straight line in the 'square' maneuvers. So whereever it should be, it was turning way too sluggishly before I added tail weight. I know you need to be over the rulebook five foot radius, but this was much worse than that.
I'll tweak, and tune, and watch folks fly...
-
I see he talked about 45+/- elevator travel. Ringmasters used have almost 90 degree elevator travel. But, with properly balanced plane and handle only a small part of the elevator travel is needed. On my Thunerbolt on the ground I can't get but maybe 10-15 degree elevator movement. The plane is balanced and is very quick with a Hot Rock EZ-Just type handle. With the Fancher or even the Morris hard point handles I have the spacing narrowed down to where the plane flies like it should. I even had a Ruffy that was way to quick with 30 degree movement.
Do like the experts have told you and balance the plane on the CG. Adjust leadout accordingly. Then narrow the line spacing a little until the plane flies like it is supposed to. Dick Byron got my Dragon to where I could fly it using one of his handles. I think my line spacing is now around 3 1/4 inches on most planes now. Now the combat wings and sport planes(Bi-Slob) are another story. Wide handle spacing and a little on the tail heavy side. H^^
-
Tim,
While I don't want to nag, something is clearly wrong with this model and/or the control system. My suggested balance point of 2 5/8" is not assumed to be perfect for everybody and every Flite Streak but it is spot-on for use as a baseline. Fine tuning from this balance point would be normal but only after running through a few other trimming operations and adjustments.
Your elevator travel is more than will ever be needed but methinks this is being checked in the shop with the model static. All you have really told me is with the bellcrank at full travel to both extremes there is quite a lot of elevator travel. What happens when the lines are strung out and you are at the handle simulating the flying experience? Uh, using natural and comfortable hand motions, nothing extreme at all.
Personally I think the model needs to be gone over from one end to the other, just as if it were fresh off the building board. Kinda pre-bench trimming...
Thrust settings.
Fuselage/wing/stabilizer alignment.
Funky bellcrank alignment at neutral?
Are you setting balance point with a butt-load of fuel in the tank?!
Control surface sealed?
Undue flex in the fuselage?
Ditto in stab and elevator.
Dan
-
Most of those are accounted for (and I am looking at elevator deflection with the plane on the ground and me at the handle, 60 feet away).
But the hinge line isn't sealed (d'oh) -- I'll fix that, and we'll see what we can see.
-
Mark Scarborough is wrong, wrong, WRONG!!!!
I don't know squat about Flite Streak setup...
How it happened is a total mystery, and although I do have an excuse it is nearly as stupid as original mistake.
To wit: Proper balance point for model under discussion is suggested as being 1 5/8" from leading edge of wing.
NOT the 2 5/8" dimension given earlier.
Ah, but at least I take this stuff seriously enough that just about 30 minutes ago I pulled a known-to-be-good model off the rack (my Cheater Streaker for those in the NW). The idea was to look at an actual model, concocting a scheme whereby it could be converted into a turd which would plow through corners instead of, you know, carving a crisp 'n quick 90-degree change of direction.
Setting it on the bench I made to do a quick why-bother check of the balance point. Gasp! I generally mark the bottoms of the wings on my models for estimated balance point and then when happy with them replace this mark with final, final, I'm-not-kidding-this-time balance point. In a moment of clarity not experienced all day (evidently) I knew immediately that mark was not even close to 2 5/8"! Yep, 1 5/8" just clear as day.
My apologies to anyone with the level of patience required to endure multiple pages of dicussions centered on a second-hand ARF Flite Streak. You know who you are and you need to get a life while I work to improve what has always been somewhat sketchy credibility.
Dan
-
Mark Scarborough is wrong, wrong, WRONG!!!!
I don't know squat about Flite Streak setup...
How it happened is a total mystery, and although I do have an excuse it is nearly as stupid as original mistake.
To wit: Proper balance point for model under discussion is suggested as being 1 5/8" from leading edge of wing.
NOT the 2 5/8" dimension given earlier.
Model looks to come out tail-heavy. What ya want is a balance point 1 5/8" behind LE.
At least not when you get it balanced at my suggested 1 5/8" setting.
Well, you had been getting it right, and I'd been going with the 1 5/8" number.
By my calculations, stretching the fuselage by one inch should have moved the "just right" center of gravity back by a whopping 1/8" or so. So I don't know why I'm liking it at 2-3/16". We'll see what happens with a sealed hinge line -- hopefully it won't turn so fast that I dork it, because I'll almost certainly be flying over pavement on the next flight.
Said next flight will be at the Fireballs club meeting, so I'll be taking Mark's suggestion and looking at other people's corners, and maybe I'll even be able to put someone in the club up to looking at mine.
My apologies to anyone with the level of patience required to endure multiple pages of dicussions centered on a second-hand ARF Flite Streak. You know who you are and you need to get a life while I work to improve what has always been somewhat sketchy credibility.
They can ignore this thread. I appreciate the effort you're putting into this, and I suspect that other newbies are, too.
-
My bet is that the bellcrank/handle spacing/control horn geomotry is causing the super quick flighty feel on the flighty streak,,,,
Dan,, credibility? oh,, uh ok,, LOL
-
I wanted to put this in Dan's thread about measuring up his Flight Streak, but it's locked for whatever reason.
At any rate, I finally got the CG all the way back as far as Dan told me to, only with the lines way out on the handle (like Howard told me).
It seems to be good. The achievable turn radius seems to be less than what I see people doing at contests, but I'm going to fly it like it is for a while and see how the top dawgs fly their corners before I change anything. It certainly flies the straight lines nice and easy.
So -- thank you Dan, for going to the trouble to convince me to put the CG back, and thank you, Howard, for pointing out that maybe my lines were too close together on the handle. I may try flying the thing with the control rod put in on the elevator horn one notch, but maybe I'll just fly it like it is for now and see how I do.
-
Update: It's still alive, and now it's getting busted up training my wife to fly. That outboard wing is more repair than original.
It's almost ready to launch again: I'm just short a prop and a weight box (the old one came back from the field, but I cannot find it, @#$%). The wing really is covered -- the LE has SLC on it; it just doesn't show in the picture. I wanted to try the stuff, and it shows off all the spliced up wing ribs to perfection.
-
Gosh, Tim...that Bansheet you let me try to fly flew more like a trainer than any Flite Streak I've ever seen. You know, the Bansheet with the tongue muffler that beats the snot out of the nose when it falls apart. S?P LL~ Steve
-
Gosh, Tim...that Bansheet you let me try to fly flew more like a trainer than any Flite Streak I've ever seen. You know, the Bansheet with the tongue muffler that beats the snot out of the nose when it falls apart. S?P LL~ Steve
Yup. Too bad the workmanship on that muffler couldn't stand up to a guest pilot bouncing it off the pavement at the bottom of a loop.