Hey, Can I Fly That?

[Motorman]

Do you let other stunt fliers fly your good plane? Is it rude to ask?


MM

[Tim Wescott]

I dunno.  I let people who I know won't crash fly my good planes.  The last time I did, Steve Helmick put the bottom of a loop at about -6 inches altitude, but that was with my 2nd-best plane.

[Mark Scarborough]

I dunno.  I let people who I know won't crash fly my good planes.  The last time I did, Steve Helmick put the bottom of a loop at about -6 inches altitude, but that was with my 2nd-best plane.

you let Steve fly them but not me harumph!!

[john e. holliday]

I have flown other peoples planes when asked to fly them.   Just did level laps, loops, eights, inverted laps and landing.   Mainly they wanted to see what their plane looked like flying.

[Bill Ervin]

Steve Helmick put the bottom of a loop at about -6 inches altitude

Did you replace the divot?

[Mark Scarborough]

Do you let other stunt fliers fly your good plane? Is it rude to ask?


MM

I have asked others to fly my good planes, typically its been others who I trust explicitly.
I have had others ask me to fly their planes too, and I am hesitant depending upon who they are and how they would react if I stuff the thing in the ground for whatevver reason.

I cant see the point of flying it and not doing tricks, thats what they are made to do,, right?
now I wont generally start out with a wingover of death or anything, but I will fly manuevers for sure+

[Dane Martin]

In contests or events, people have offered me to be able to fly their airplane to see how a well set up plane should feel. I asked Joe gilbert to fly my RM once, and he said it felt like his. So he had me fly his, and it did feel the same.  His was a little lighter and I could feel that. But the controls felt the same

[Brent Williams]

In my case, I am the worst flyer in our group.  I have no worries letting Gordan Delaney, Roger Kramer, Jim Rhodes, Curtis Williams, ect fly my planes.  Last week, Bart Klapinsky took several flights on my plane.  It was awesome seeing that caliber of performance from my Gotcha foam wing flapless beater.  He sure liked it.  Good deal!

[Steve Helmick]

I'm not quite sure why I was flying Tim's #2 airplane, but found it was very unresponsive and wouldn't turn worth a darn. Odd, since I'd given him my ex-Haverly F.Twister, "KISS!", which flew pretty well.  If he'd told me the #2 was relatively unresponsive and didn't turn worth a darn, I would have widened the handle spacing a half inch. And it was more like a negative 2" pullout and only minimal damage to anything useful...mostly just his "tongue muffler".   

Mike Haverly said that he flew one of Varley's airplanes once and also had a hard time getting it to turn. I reckon Tim and Keith ought to like each other's planes. Mike and I wouldn't, and I'm pretty sure that Howard and Paul wouldn't. 

I once asked Paul to fly my ex-Whittle "Eagle", and though he was initially apprehensive about the limited control travels, he said flew well. Obviously, he flew it way better than I can. It would be excellent if 10 oz. lighter!

I think responsiveness (basically CG location) is up to individual tastes. Remember that moving the CG also involves moving the LO's a similar amount. The handle spacing might be the easy fix, but experimenting with CG/LO's/Handle takes some time and determination. Neither of which was available. I don't see how Tim can fly such an unresponsive airplane as well as he does.    Steve     

[Jim Hoffman]

Great question.

I don’t ask others if I can fly their planes.  I have offered flights on mine to trusted and competent friends

It is VERY educational for a non-expert to fly an expert level plane to know what they feel like and to know what you are shooting for in the build and trim process. 
With that said, when I fly other Expert airplanes I am looking to get a sense of how they perform and I am EXTREMELY careful. 

•   Before takeoff I ask if the plane has any idiosyncrasies I should know about
•   Large lazy 8’s following takeoff to get a feel for the sensitivity.
•   I do not fly an AMA wingover.
•   High bottoms.
•   No dead air flights.
•   Awareness of the motor cut off characteristics.

I’ve taken many flights on non-expert planes in an effort to assist in trim issues.  Same rules apply. 

Jim Hoffman

[Fredvon4]

Based on the title I wonder about motormans question....

First I would NEVER ask ---Hey can I fly that? unless it was my high school buddy several decades ago when I could actually fly competently...or so I thought

Today, no way....but if any CL flyer saw me struggling and came over to offer assistance I would not be too apprehensive and accept the help even if I had no idea if he was any good (I figure if he offered he must have some ability)

But any Joe six pack  strolling by and just asking to take my plane for a ride...rude yes and the answer is NO

[Steve Helmick]

Where's Tim?    Steve

[Tim Wescott]

I don't see how Tim can fly such an unresponsive airplane as well as he does.    Steve     

It's just line spacing.  I seem to have more gain from brain to wrist than most people.  I'm flying Paul's Atlantis now, and it's fine with my usual line spacing.

[Tim Wescott]

If I'm going to fly someone else's airplane I start out with at least one climb.  Depending on the level of the guy offering the plane it'll either be a round quarter loop to straight up followed by a round quarter outside loop to high level, or it'll be square "AMA" corners.  Once I'm confident enough in the corners that I feel I know the plane I'll fly as much of the pattern as I dare.

If it'll corner inside and outside, and fly at 45 degrees, all without losing line tension, then you can probably do a wingover safely.

[Pat Chewning]

Being a beginner, I've had several experts fly my planes to tell me what needs adjustment.   I've flow a couple of their planes (not their #1 contest planes), if offered.  (Clown, Skyray, Shoestring, Ukey).    Amazingly, I also was offered to fly a carrier plane at the last contest, just to see what that is like.

The only bad thing that happened was when Dave Royer was flying my Twister.  The engine quit while upside-down and Dave did a great job landing upside-down.  Of course there was minor damage.

More importantly, I've had great experience with the NW Fireballs club members who have GIVEN me airplanes to own and fly, engines and tanks and propellers and advice, lines and handles.   The generosity of this group to get a beginner flying is amazing and I can't thank them enough.

[Tim Wescott]

More importantly, I've had great experience with the NW Fireballs club members who have GIVEN me airplanes to own and fly, engines and tanks and propellers and advice, lines and handles.   The generosity of this group to get a beginner flying is amazing and I can't thank them enough.

Speaking as a former beginner, there's nothing more helpful to a newbie -- or even a not-so-newbie -- than to give them a well set-up airplane.

[Larry Fernandez]

Great question.



It is VERY educational for a non-expert to fly an expert level plane to know what they feel like and to know what you are shooting for in the build and trim process. 
With that said, when I fly other Expert airplanes I am looking to get a sense of how they perform.

Jim Hoffman

What a great point here Jim!!!

When I was an intermediate flyer, Brett wanted me to fly his Imitation one afternoon at Mission College.
He wanted me to see what a PERFECTLY trimmed stunt ship should feel like.
I was very apprehensive. I told him no and thanked him anyway.
Jim Aron finally talked me into it. I'm not sure, but think this was Brett's NATs plane.

Long story short, about half way through the flight, I was very comfortable with it and I came away, now knowing how I want my ships to fly.

That afternoon was an eye opener and it became a lot easier to trim my planes.
And of course, as my planes were better trimmed, my flying dramatically improved.

One of the reasons that Brett has been my hero. Thanks again Brett!!!!!

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Brett Buck]

Do you let other stunt fliers fly your good plane? Is it rude to ask?

     Depends on who it is. It's not rude to ask, but the answer might be no.

    I have flown *many* other people's airplane's for evaluation or trim, but I can't recall asking to do it. And I have done the ultimate, crashed someone else's airplane, a Skyray 35 with an Enya 29. With such a feeble engine, the cornering is very marginal, and I got in a coffin corner in a *round 8*. That's a particularly embarrassing case.

     That's how I happened to end up with a Skyray 35 kit in the first place, I got it for the plans and the fuselage to rebuild the airplane.

     Brett

[Tim Wescott]

What a great point here Jim!!!

When I was an intermediate flyer, Brett wanted me to fly his Imitation one afternoon at Mission College.
He wanted me to see what a PERFECTLY trimmed stunt ship should feel like.

Speaking purely as an under-Expert (too good for Advanced, not good enough to beat Brett or other National-caliber Expert), I wouldn't offer to loan my plane to someone unless I was (A) confident that they wouldn't have problems, and (B) ready to accept the situation if they crashed it.

Sort of ditto if someone asked me, although if I say "some other time" I really mean it -- if I mean "no", I'll say that.