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Author Topic: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA  (Read 2904 times)

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« on: February 13, 2019, 04:03:29 PM »
"FAA issued an Interim Final Rule today that will require drone pilots and model aircraft pilots to display their FAA-issued registration number on the outside surface of their aircraft."

Anybody have a clue what we are supposed to do?  It goes into effect Feb. 25 and I am sure there is a Barnie Feif out there just licking his chops.

Of course the AMA forgot to mention if this included Control Line but they would first have to acknowledge that it existed.  They also caution you to not use any sites that require individual registration of each aircraft then give you the link to the FAA Site which states that each aircraft has to be registered.



Pardon me while I have a brain freeze - Ken
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Offline Chad Hill

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2019, 04:28:15 PM »
Here it is. Utter Bravo-Sierra.

Dear members,
 
We're writing to let you know the FAA issued an Interim Final Rule today that will require drone pilots and model aircraft pilots to display their FAA-issued registration number on the outside surface of their aircraft. The rule will take effect on Monday, February 25, which means the markings must be in place for any outdoor flight beginning on that date.
 
Although most AMA members already have their FAA registration number posted on the outside of their aircraft, AMA will be submitting comments to the FAA requesting a waiver process for those who might be burdened by external markings, such as members who fly scale replica model aircraft. Most importantly, this rule does not change the original acceptable methods of external marking, nor does it specify a particular external surface on which the registration number must be placed. The requirement is simply that the registration number must be seen upon visual inspection of the aircraft's exterior.
 
As you know, the registration requirement is not new. Congress reinstated this requirement in December 2017 with the passage of the National Defense Authorization Act. Although this rule was flexible and allowed the registration marking to be placed in an enclosed compartment, law enforcement officials and FAA partners have expressed concerns about the safety risks a concealed explosive device could pose to first responders when opening a compartment to find a registration number.
 
If you would like to submit your own comment on the Interim Final Rule, simply visit www.regulations.gov and search for "RIN 2120-AL32." You can also visit www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=93045 to learn more. The deadline for public comment ends on March 15, 2019.
 
If you are uncertain if you have a valid FAA registration, you can access your FAA account at https://faadronezone.faa.gov/#. This site will allow you to view your personal FAA registration number and expiration date. We strongly advise you to avoid registering your model aircraft anywhere other than the official FAA website. If you register under Section 336, there is a $5 fee for a three-year registration, and hobbyists receive one identification number for all of their aircraft. Please be aware of unofficial registration websites that charge exorbitant fees or require separate registration fees for each recreational aircraft.
 
We continue to work closely with the FAA to determine the best path forward regarding recreational UAS operating requirements. As always, thank you for your continued support, and please reach out with any questions.
 
Thank you,
AMA Government Affairs




Offline JoeJust

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2019, 04:39:04 PM »
Maybe it REALY was a good idea for me to get my FAA # when it was first proposed. Back then the idea was to have your FAA # IF you used a R/C 2.4 transmitter to change your throttle setting on your plane. All my Carrier planes have that #. Now, for the rest??????????? HB~>
I only enter contests so somebody else is not always in last place

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2019, 04:49:48 PM »
I don’t  know if it was reconfirmed, but there was an earlier ruling that control-line models, like kites are tethered devices and not “aircraft”  and thus exempt.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2019, 05:13:55 PM »
I don’t  know if it was reconfirmed, but there was an earlier ruling that control-line models, like kites are tethered devices and not “aircraft”  and thus exempt.
I certainly hope that is true but don't up think that the AMA could have added one sentence to that release to let us know?  I will probably fork over the $5 and get the number and paint it on the bottom of my muffler.

Ken
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Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 05:33:29 PM »
On page 8 of the January, 2019 issue of Model Aviation, there is an article about section 349.  On page 9 of this article, under the paragraph headed "FAA Registration", it says "Congress reinstated FAA registration for all unmanned aircraft weighing between .55 pounds and 55 pounds."

So, I contacted AMA and asked if this registration includes control line model aircraft.

This is the response I got from Angie Martin:  Anyone who flies a model that can freely navigate in the air and uses a remote control device (e.g. RC transmitter) is required to register.  This includes drones, traditional fixed wing model aircraft, model helicopters, and other remote controlled model aircraft.  If you EXCLUSIVELY fly models under .55 pounds, indoors, control line, or free flight models, you do not need to register."

Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2019, 05:51:50 PM »
I take Angie Martin's response to mean that if someone flies both CL and RC, the modeler needs to register and the number must be displayed on the outside of the RC aircraft but his/her CL models do not need to display a registration number.

Any other opinions on this?

Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2019, 06:00:17 PM »
Hmmmm...
I fly my control Line model (tethered Kite).  Never will register!

As for Barney Fife,  Sounds like a good excuse for a false arrest law suit! 

Randy Cuberly
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2019, 06:45:54 PM »
It does not say how big it has to be? So if I have to put it on my plane it will be 1/16 tall letters
AMA 12366

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 07:21:09 PM »
On page 8 of the January, 2019 issue of Model Aviation, there is an article about section 349.  On page 9 of this article, under the paragraph headed "FAA Registration", it says "Congress reinstated FAA registration for all unmanned aircraft weighing between .55 pounds and 55 pounds."

So, I contacted AMA and asked if this registration includes control line model aircraft.

This is the response I got from Angie Martin:  Anyone who flies a model that can freely navigate in the air and uses a remote control device (e.g. RC transmitter) is required to register.  This includes drones, traditional fixed wing model aircraft, model helicopters, and other remote controlled model aircraft.  If you EXCLUSIVELY fly models under .55 pounds, indoors, control line, or free flight models, you do not need to register."

 Carry on as usual.  D>K
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2019, 08:08:09 PM »
I got that E-Mail message also.  I have never registered with the FAA and if the AMA says I have to register my CL planes I guess they will lose a member of long standing, which means no contests or fun flies sanctioned through the AMA. HB~>
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2019, 08:15:24 PM »
It does not say how big it has to be? So if I have to put it on my plane it will be 1/16 tall letters
.... on the bottom of my muffler.  I want them to feel the heat.
AMA 15382
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Tom Vieira

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2019, 06:06:46 AM »
someone had replied to my comment to AMA's post about this, saying

419.3(c) any airborne aircraft controlled by line which line is greater than 12 inches, or 1 foot, in length shall be deemed a drone as such aircraft could remove itself from said line and continue on its own power

so that means if we fit shutoffs we are good?

Offline Rollin Keszler

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2019, 10:40:00 AM »
We all "assume" CL will not be affected but unless there's a wording change or specific waiver, the existing wording would be the rule.  Without a waiver, it might give the AMA an excuse for not honoring any claim as the unregistered claimant wasn't in compliance with Federal rules.  As I no longer belong to AMA, makes no difference to me but does AMA ask for the registration number when renewing since many of us fly other models?  Once the rule is adopted and upon renewing, would you have to state you fly a waivered model exclusively?  At the local club level, would the AMA-mandated Safety Officer also be tasked with policing FAA registration numbers?  What a mess!  These "what-if's" are giving me the frights-think I'll go clean off the board and work on my Legacy.

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2019, 11:11:16 AM »
We all "assume" CL will not be affected but unless there's a wording change or specific waiver, the existing wording would be the rule.  Without a waiver, it might give the AMA an excuse for not honoring any claim as the unregistered claimant wasn't in compliance with Federal rules.  As I no longer belong to AMA, makes no difference to me but does AMA ask for the registration number when renewing since many of us fly other models?  Once the rule is adopted and upon renewing, would you have to state you fly a waivered model exclusively?  At the local club level, would the AMA-mandated Safety Officer also be tasked with policing FAA registration numbers?  What a mess!  These "what-if's" are giving me the frights-think I'll go clean off the board and work on my Legacy.
Just so nobody misunderstands,  this is the Federal FAA making the rules-not AMA so its doubtful AMA with be asking or checking anyone.  Your local cop might.  The way I read things you shouldn’t have any trouble flying CL- just need to have the registration.  Not sure Barney Fife will understand the difference.

Dave
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Offline Tony Drago

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2019, 11:43:43 AM »
This could be if it is not already going to be a double edge sword.
 Lets say down the road one wants to join the AMA. The AMA Barney Fife  says, do you have your FAA number. You reply no. He then reply's, well you need a FAA number first to get your AMA membership. So then you go an apply for your FAA number and the FAA Barney Fife  say's  are you an AMA member, in which you reply not yet because the AMA said i first need my FAA number. Then the FAA Barney Fife say's no AMA number No FAA number.
 No one is going to have all there ducks in a row on this Fiasco.

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2019, 01:40:37 PM »
If I understand the New rules right. No one has to belong to a flight based organization like AMA as in the past. FAA has taken over all leadership and we are only accountable to them. So AMA is only good for the insurance and competition flying. There is no need to join AMA for any other reason. FAA now rules the activity all together. AMA of course is not letting this be known.

This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as rules go. Lots of unknown and grey area. It costs a $150.00 to get a commercial drone license. They are also going to have a test and certification for hobbyest's also. They have not finalised that yet. Still waiting for the final complete program rules which of course can be change at any time. Like now. We have ten days to comply with the ruling to put your FAA number on the outside of your drone.

What if they deem all drones built before a certan date are not lawful becase they do not comply with FAA specs? Or what if home built models have to be certified to be legal? Or what if--------------------?
Jim Kraft

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Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2019, 05:06:57 PM »
That is an old outdated web page. And that is AMA, not FAA. FAA has yet to exempt anyone who fly's model airplanes. We never get an answer from them except what they have published. At some point we are going to have to have it from the FAA to be confirmed. AMA does not have the authority to make that decision. It may be they have discussed it with them, but why has this information not been made public by FAA?

Does some one know from FAA that we are exempt?
Jim Kraft

Offline Jim Carter

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2019, 05:07:47 PM »
We all "assume" CL will not be affected but unless there's a wording change or specific waiver, the existing wording would be the rule.  Without a waiver, it might give the AMA an excuse for not honoring any claim as the unregistered claimant wasn't in compliance with Federal rules.  As I no longer belong to AMA, makes no difference to me but does AMA ask for the registration number when renewing since many of us fly other models?  Once the rule is adopted and upon renewing, would you have to state you fly a waivered model exclusively?  At the local club level, would the AMA-mandated Safety Officer also be tasked with policing FAA registration numbers?  What a mess!  These "what-if's" are giving me the frights-think I'll go clean off the board and work on my Legacy.
Hey Rollin!  Well, since I fly both types plus some free flight, I did register.  However, you know where we fly and you know its strictly control line.  Well, there is a consensus that all of our members and flying visitors, all, will need to be registered.  Why?  Well, and forgetting the AMA for the moment, mainly because it's a federal requirement and should any of our "neighbors", visitors or other users of the park challenge us for whatever reason to the County Parks and Recreation Board we will be able to show that all members are in compliance with federal law! 

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2019, 05:25:43 PM »
As good a reason as any.  I signed up the first day.  It really was totally painless.  While I understand nobody likes the idea of Big Brother getting into our hobby I do understand some of the why-concern about the out -of-control drone craze and the potential for problems.  I think it is a sign of good will on our part to show we really ARE different from those who would be goofballs.  It is easier for us than the FF and RC boys.  They have serious restrictions that will change a lot of how they operate.  For us there may be a few situations where the 'locals' won't understand the technical differences but at least if you are in compliance (will set you back $5) they won't have much leg to stand on.
Since most of my stunt building is caught up next on my table will be a big A2 Nordic Towline glider.......guess I won't worry about it..until I release the towline. :-)).  Have to DT that rascal at 399.9 ft.

Dave
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2019, 06:50:46 PM »
 This whole deal is one occasion where we should be probably be happy that almost no one realizes us C/Lers exist. IMO, the best thing we can do is to not draw attention to our very small segment. Quit throwing arms in the air, stop bringing up the "what if's", keeps our mouths shut, and go about business as usual. The one thing that is for sure, your AMA isn't going to be any help either way.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 08:19:36 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2019, 07:28:49 PM »
I am just sick of this whole thing.  If the AMA had distanced itself from these things from the very start instead of being whores for money, we may not have the problems we now have.  The very notion of having to register a CL model with the FAA is insane.  This is quickly becoming not fun anymore.  Wayne probably has a point, keep your mouth shut and go fly.

Mike

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2019, 08:20:26 PM »
I am just sick of this whole thing.  If the AMA had distanced itself from these things from the very start instead of being whores for money, we may not have the problems we now have.  The very notion of having to register a CL model with the FAA is insane.

 Ditto. The fearless leaders of our country have us speeding along in their reversing of common sense snowball, and it's only getting worse. What percentage of National network news headlines or broadcasts do you see anymore that aren't about bashing something, stirring up a problem that isn't there, or attempting to dig up ancient dirt on someone? Not many. You never hear about the real issues that should be laid on the table, they don't want you to know. The media is as corrupt as anything out there anymore. "News" hasn't been news for a long time, it's degraded itself to negative brainwashing. Sad stuff. Sorry for the rant, but dammit!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 08:43:37 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Doug Burright

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2019, 11:45:45 PM »
So... see what happens when the AMA tried to bring drones into their coverage? This is exactly why the AMA as a lobbying organization failed! The Drone community should make their very own insurance and lobbying organization to free the responsible model Aviation Community from government interference!

I am kind of on the same wavelength as Doc Holliday, in that the AMA is not an organization that is benefiting the average modeler, anymore. And if the FAA does start collecting new registration fees, they ought to use the funds to help build the wall!
I will build it. It's gonna be really difficult to find me with an ARF. I know every bit of my airplane!

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2019, 10:52:35 AM »
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2019, 11:02:27 AM »
Watching this last video, I wonder what that wing would have done if it had been air borne at flying speeds.   that os quite a hole that little drone made.  To me the size of that hole might let enough air to cause the wing to explode or shed the surface.  How about a video of a bird strike.   

Hope all the birds/fowl have registered.   LL~ LL~

Yes, I know any kind of strike to an air craft is a serious matter. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Jim Kraft

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2019, 04:31:56 PM »
Technology brings lots of good things. But, there is always a down side. Now everyone is aware of all model aircraft no matter what as a threat instead of a hobby for the most of us. The drone problem has become our problem whether we like it or not. Things will never be the same.

I agree the drones should have never been incorporated into our hobby of model aviation. But, the camel has got his nose in the tent, and will soon be in there with us. When an 8 year old kid can no longer legally fly a model in his own back yard without a licensed adult, we are on the down grade. We have no one to stand in the gap. AMA turned their back on us, and went for the big bucks. We are all going to pay the price for that decision.

I do wish the FAA would come out with the new rules soon. But, as far as i know there is no deadline. But, i am guessing it will be before spring. Then we will know what we are going to have to do to comply. But right now we know nothing as Shulz use to say. We are in the dark until they have a written document of law. It is pretty well known there will be a test and a certification card given to all legal flyers. Those without the card are flying illegally, and no one knows what the penalty will be. We do know they can confiscate all our models and equipment, and there are fines up to $27,000.

There are already lawyers advertising to defend drone flyers from law suits. Well, at least someone will benefit.
Jim Kraft

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2019, 05:35:19 PM »
  If there is a site that is for public comments on this, every damn one of us should really load up        on them and tell them in plain English what a bunch of BS this all is. Everyone! Whether you are registered or not, let them know! have your friends, relatives and neighbors do it also!
   I still think that this is something that they won't be able to enforce, and local law enforcement already has their hands full and will be less than interested beyond some one calling about noise or something. We need to get that lawyer that won that case in court that the  AMA was dragging their feet on, and he did it on his own? About a year ago or so?
   After 70 some of years of normal, peaceful operations of typical model airplanes, I would think that constitutional Ex Post Facto law would prevail here also. Let 'em go after the quads!
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2019, 07:27:51 PM »
So here I am flying my unregistered 1/2A CL model at about 25 feet off the deck, when a twin turboprop privately owned plane came down and accidentally caught my model in its leading edge...who's at fault?

Me, because I'm illegally operating my 11 ounce model. LL~

Yeesh!

Offline Ed W. Prohaska

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2019, 08:03:30 PM »
I spoke with 2 people at the AMA today and was told control line is one of the 4 exempt categories that includes free flight, kites and any model that weights less then 0.55 pounds. I DO NOT have to register a control line model unless I put a radio in it. 

If I want to fly in a contest like sport scale, where the radio operates the throttle and maybe some other features, it has to be on 2.4 Gigahertz. If I fly it for fun (not in a contest) I can use an old 72 Megahertz radio but I have to register.

It sounds pretty simple and straight forward. Is there something I'm missing here? Later ... Ed Pro ...   

Offline 944_Jim

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2019, 08:19:38 PM »
Hyperbole...if the private jet got my plane at 25' agl I have worse problems than his airplane in my leading edge.
I was trying to be funny.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2019, 08:40:40 PM »
I spoke with 2 people at the AMA today and was told control line is one of the 4 exempt categories that includes free flight, kites and any model that weights less then 0.55 pounds. I DO NOT have to register a control line model unless I put a radio in it. 

If I want to fly in a contest like sport scale, where the radio operates the throttle and maybe some other features, it has to be on 2.4 Gigahertz. If I fly it for fun (not in a contest) I can use an old 72 Megahertz radio but I have to register.

It sounds pretty simple and straight forward. Is there something I'm missing here? Later ... Ed Pro ...

   I think the missing element is that the FAA needs to say that, too.

    Brett

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2019, 12:49:33 PM »
^^^^ THIS IS a very Important distinction!

NO reading of the current or proposed Dot / FAA rules exempt any Control Line aircraft of any size...facts...simple reading of the published rules.

Just because you get a "CL is exempt" e-mail or voice answer from a NON FAA person with an OPINION-- does not make it legally true...

In fact if you inquire to the FAA you will also get a employee to tell you "CL is not included" his or her opinion OPINION...

BUT Prosecutors and Defense Lawyers always work from written rules and laws and any past precedent...hearsay and NON EXPERT opinion is not even admissible evidence in your defense

I will NOT risk my Constitutional Rights over some silly $5 license.... any violation of Federal law by definition is a Felony...If you plead guilty to a FAA citation because your lawyer tells you you do not have the money to get near the supreme court....You are now a prohibited person for 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms purposes.... for the rest of your life...Oh yea, you can no longer vote either.... stuff to ponder
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2019, 05:43:55 PM »
What are they going to do about all those that could care less about competition and only fly their CL models maybe two or three times a year.  Also the ones I've met locally don't have AMA license and have not heard about the FAA license/requirements.   I also know of a couple of guys that fly radio control planes on their property with no AMA license and could care less about the AMA.  I will not turn them in as they are very serious about their flying.   D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2019, 10:58:12 PM »
I don't really have much to add because I have been registered for as long as required because I fly RC and am a professional pilot and it would be irresponsible to put my career in jeopardy over putting 1/16th Letraset under the stab of my models, but it is a sorry affair. To me it's a liberty grab, no one that buys those heavy camera quads gives a hoot about the hobby and as soon as they find another extreme sport to get fired up about, as long as they aren't killed doing the one they do already, they'll toss it in the garage never to be seen again.. or until the lipo's burn down their house.

Too bad, but I'm sure in the end they'll be an exemption for FF and CL under some conditions and only RC will be affected in an real way. For now, I doubt very much there will be trouble. But; guys flying contests might want to sign up just in case. Higher profile events and all. The Nall fly-in and stuff will be under the gun probably, Nats maybe. The Nall probably more known to the FAA than the Nats though.

Got go mask some more, make some goofy little decal for my Nobler, xyzzy43090599CW... or whatever it is I've got to get it out of my wallet.

Chris...   

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2019, 08:01:32 AM »
  The whole thing is such a phony piece of BS! If you registered, and was supposed to be for free and you got your 5 bucks refunded, lots of guys never saw their 5 bucks again. Then they email you some phony baloney certificate that you are supposed to print out yourself! What if you don't have a printer?  There have been the verified reports of quads getting away from people and causing damage. Law enforcement recovers the quad in question and reports the registration number. The FAA tells Law Enforcement that they have no way of tracking the number!!It's all BS that they can't deal with or truly enforce. They don't have the man power to properly over see what they are supposed to in full scale aviation, hiw can they do that for a discipline that they know nothing about? I say we should all (non professional people) just ignore it of the precedent that we have been operation the way we have been for over 70 years and should not have to change now. They should recognize and go after the actual problem, and put more responsibility on Wal-Mart, camera stores and other venues, especially on line operations, that sell the quads and FPV equipment and regulate that, which IS what the problem is.  I think that while we have been wringing our hands and and waiting on the AMA to do something, I think the trend has turned a bit. I have noticed that the local Craig's List is starting to get real crowded with used quads anf related equipment for sale. It all seems to be the stuff that is the real problem also, but I'll bet that it's all for sale just because they got bored with it and like Chris mentioned, are looking for the next big thing.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2019, 10:32:08 AM »
Each and Every Year the FCC (Federal Communication Commission) issues citations
Like the IRS these extra constitutional Agencies have Enforcement responsibility.

Congressional oversight hearings each year ask how many violations of the Rules and how many prosecutions

To Date the DoT/FAA has issued citations and prosecuted violators...FACTS

You do NOT ever want to be on the side of $$$$$ to defend against a Micky Mouse charge....no matter how remote the possibility

HAM causing deliberate interference with a Repeater in California...$10,000 fine, loss of transmitting equipment, and threat of 5 years in jail is typical many times a year...the conviction in Federal court is a Felony....total loss of constitutional rights...that can never be regained... without a Presidential Pardon
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2019, 10:52:43 AM »
  Hi Ya Fred;
    I understand your point, but that is just a little bit different from me going down to Buder Park to fly my Flite Streak. I never, ever thought it would be considered a crime to play with toy airplanes, and that is exactly what I'm talking about.  Over 80 years of of activity where you can count on the fingers of one hand where the operation of a model airplane caused a problem with full scale operations. 80 years and who knows how many hours of both full scale and model aircraft operations. And I'm NOT including any recent quad incidents because they ain't model airplanes. That is one hell of a precedent that can't be ignored.  It must be a prerequisite to have all of your common sense removed in order to work for the FAA!!!
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
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AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Chad Hill

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2019, 11:33:10 AM »
I dealt with the FAA in one capacity or another for 35 years. The real problem facing us is that this $5 fee and requirement to display FAA registration on our models will be just the beginning. In due time, there will be additional requirements of certification forced on us, including training, testing and inspections. We do not fly drones or large, high speed RC aircraft and the FAA needs to realize this and grant us an exemption now. Once discussion closes on March 15, the Interim Final Rule will soon become final and control line models will forever be associated with drones and RC from a regulatory point of view, in the eyes of the feds. I urge everyone to address this with the FAA and AMA now. We need FAA exemption in writing for control line models.

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Here we go again - AMA vs FAA
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2019, 01:11:06 PM »
   Chad, I'll go a step further and say that traditional MODEL AIRPLANE ACTIVITY be exempt. Free flight, R/C  soaring, and even a typical .40 sized high wing trainer are threatened. One thing that the powers that be have in their head I think is the giant scale stuff and the big, heavy R/C jets. R/C jets could become extinct. Even these have been in operation for  along time with almost no operational issues. There needs to be a complete separation from the quad copter/drone crowd, as has been stated. the AMA could not have been more wrong to embrace these things and aligned with them.
  Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)


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