Here's an offbeat transportation question

[Randy Powell]

I'm flying out Sunday for VSC. I sent the plane ahead with a friend I plan to take the engine and various flying stuff with me when I go. I need the engine for a new classic plane under construction and the plane going to VSC is staying there with a friend.

So, the question is, any thoughts on packing the engine, props, lines, tools and various sundry items in a way that doesn't bring the ire or TSA? Last thing I want is some TSA goof searching the bag and screwing around with or (God forfend) pitching stuff out or whatever. I thought about leaving a note in my bag (that will be checked) giving a list of contents and purposes so they don't think a glo starter is some sort of bomb flying lines are leads or something. There is no liquid in there except some shampoo and I don't think the silly limitation on taking liquids onto the plane counts for checked baggage. But I'm a little concerned. Not much at this point, but a little.

Any thoughts?

[RC Storick]

I'm flying out Sunday for VSC. I sent the plane ahead with a friend I plan to take the engine and various flying stuff with me when I go. I need the engine for a new classic plane under construction and the plane going to VSC is staying there with a friend.

So, the question is, any thoughts on packing the engine, props, lines, tools and various sundry items in a way that doesn't bring the ire or TSA? Last thing I want is some TSA goof searching the bag and screwing around with or (God forfend) pitching stuff out or whatever. I thought about leaving a note in my bag (that will be checked) giving a list of contents and purposes so they don't think a glo starter is some sort of bomb flying lines are leads or something. There is no liquid in there except some shampoo and I don't think the silly limitation on taking liquids onto the plane counts for checked baggage. But I'm a little concerned. Not much at this point, but a little.

Any thoughts?

If you checking the bag don't worry. I would put the things in separate bags,Like no starter battery with flying lines. I once had a stick on watch on the back of a calculator. That Spooked them! BIG TIME..

[SteveMoon]

Randy: Please, please check your bag. There's no way you will get
the tools, etc. thru security in a carry-on bag. There's a good
chance any residual fuel, solvents, etc. would get sniffed out and
then you'd be there for a long time. Don't bother taking the glo starter
with you, there'll be plenty of extras at VSC you can borrow.

As an airline employee I hardly consider the restrictions on the amounts
of liquids to be carried on silly. It should have been done over 10 years
ago. In the mid '90s Ramsi Yousef (spelling?) used a small contact
solution bottle filled with nitro, a casio watch, and dry cell batteries
to blow a hole in the side of a Phillipines Airlines 747. This was a test
run for what would have been a series of airliner bombings out of
Narita (Tokyo) Airport. This included several Northwest Airlines flights
that I regularly worked at that time. At that time every bag being carried
on to flights out of NRT was being searched in the jetway. A rather chilling
experience.

Have fun at VSC, Steve

[Dave Rolley]

Randy,

ICAO regulations prohibit carrying a gas engine on an airliner.  Just figure that any internal combustion engine fits in the category.  Most tools are prohibited in your carry-on bags.  The tool prohibition has lessened somewhat, but I wouldn't bother trying.

I fly with my F2C diesels in checked baggage all over the USA and last year to Europe without problem.  The method I use is to disassemble the engine to a non-runnable state.  Then you are carrying parts, not an engine.  BTW, the one of the teams returning to Europe after the 2004 World Championships had a great deal of trouble because some of the members did not follow that recommendation.

I remove the head, piston and rod assembly, and liner from the crankcase and pack them in a separate container from the crankcase.  That way there are not enough parts in one place to be considered an engine.

I've not had any problem with my tools or models in checked baggage.  But I use a converted hard-side suitcase to carry my models and use a medium size soft-side for my tools and other flying equipment.  That way nothing screams "I'm different!" to the folks handling the bags.  Well, other than the suitcase with the models is real light.  I also put a letter on the inside describing the contents as "used in model airplane racing competition" and that "the fuel used in the models contains methanol or kerosene and although the models have been throughly cleaned, sensitive equipment may detect some residue".  Further I state "there is no fuel in the suitcase".   When we went overseas last year we got a letter from the AMA to include in each bag in addition to our letter.  Even this doesn't always work.  One of the folks returning from the F2C Team Trials in Dallas had to ship the box containing the wing from his crashed model home by another method because the person checking the bags said "It may or may not have had fuel on it".  Huh?

Lately, UPS has refused to ship F2C fuel via ground.  I always properly identify the contents as model airplane fuel and package the contents in 1 liter size or less.  I've been doing that for years.  I haven't found out yet if there is some type of new policy or it was simply an employee that was uncomfortable with a package that said "fuel" in the contents description block.

What ever you do, don't try to game the system.  The system does not have a sense of humor.

Good luck,

Dave

[dave siegler]

I fly for work, and my brother flies a lot with F2d Stuff so here goes.  He often checks planes, in a soft side bag, and his F2d tool box and has very few issues.  Have your AMA card handy and put model airplane information on or in you tool box.

Put your tools in a TOOL Box, don't hide anything in your suitcase.  Flush your engiens out with castor and bag your engines in clear plastic bags and check them in the same box as your tools.  Same thing with props, they look like weapons to the untrained.  Make your stuff easy to look at, if they have to dig around your are more likely to have issues, or think you are hiding something.

I have mixed feelings on the glow starter, you should be able to check that, flashlights and power tools travel in tool boxes all the time.  But If you can borrow it or use disposable (dry cell) batteries, even better.  

[Randy Powell]

Thanks for all the input. The stuff will go in checked luggage, not as a carry on. They are paranoid about tools so those need to go in checked luggage. I had the engine double bagged and I had planned on putting all the stuff on top in my suitcase so if TSA opens it, it will be right up front. I was also going to include a letter with inventory and a description of what is in there so there are no "gee, what's this?" sort of questions hanging around. I know that the chances are that they won't even look at the bag, but better to do stuff up front. The airline has now limited passengers to one checked bag. You can bring a second for a $50 fee (man, I just love flying), so I thought I could put everything in a box and put that in the suitcase. We aren't talking about much cubbage. the stuff is pretty compact. Hopefully, they won't have a problem with that if they look.

I don't really want to disassemble a PA engine. They are custom fitted and taking it apart just seems like a bad idea. So hopefully, TSA won't have a problem with it. Guess we'll see. If you don't see me at VSC, it's because I've been detained for carrying nefarious model airplane stuff. Sigh....

[Mark Scarborough]

Not to worry Randy,, I am sure one of us will come bail your engine and stuff out for you,, meanwhile they cant hold you to long can they?

[Ralph Wenzel (d)]

Unless that engine is a one-of-a-kind Belchfire .38, wouldn't it be simpler to just buy another engine of the same type? You always preach having a backup, anyhow, right? Now's the time! My other option would be to delay construction of the new fuselage until after VSC, when you have everything back home.

[Paul Smith]

The Dwight D. Eisenhower Interstate Higway System.

Privately owned ground car.

Subway.

Unabbridged books on CD

[Steve Helmick]

There was a thread on this subject on that other forum, a few years ago. Your engine should be ok if you clean  it of fuel presidue (sic) and flush it with a neutral substance (castor oil), and double bag it. Then, you put a letter in with it, that you've cleaned and flushed this engine per the guidelines of the DOT/FAA/TSA and you should be good to go. This info came from Chris Cox...I attached the file.    Steve

[Bill Heher]

Randy,

I travel constantly for my job and have to bring tools, test equipment, etc on most trips. I pretty much do as you plan- put all the questionable items in 1 suitcase, in unlocked tool cases/boxes. Make them easy to access or remove from the suitcase without having to pull a bunch of clothes and stuff out to get at them. My suitcase is opened every time  by TSA, they put a little pre-printed notice in the sutcase that states it was opened for inspection.  I have yet to have anything go missing in over 100 trips since 9/11.

Putting a letter of explanation / inventory is probably a good idea- maybe including a copy of your AMA card in the letter.  My stuff all has my business card taped to it so they can match it to the flight manifest or contact me if needed.

I remember the good old days, I once hand carried a Holley 650 Spreadbore carburator through security as carry on baggage in a box. I put it on the belt for X-ray and watched the girls face as she looked at the screen- totally baffled. She called a supervisor over- he looked at, looked at me and said " Is that a 4 bbl Holley?" I said yep, and explained that I had drained it, pulled the float bowls and rinsed it completely out with alcohol, followed by a complete drying with compressed air. He called his buddy over just so he could see the image, then they had me open the box so they could "Sniff check" it for gasoline smell. Once they were sure it contained no fuel residue they let me take it on the plane. I guess it helps that I was in Detroit at the time- they actually knew what a carb was.

[50+AirYears]

I've had some fun carrying things through airports.  Got a surprise when I put my carry-on through the X-ray.  The sweet young thing looked up and asked "Is that by any chance a Fluke 87?"  I just had to laugh.  That was the exact model DMM I had with me.  Didn't have to open anything.

Also I once was carrying some ECUs in my carry on for a customer service call.  St. Louis, Mo.  Gal had to call her supervisor over, who apparently was having a bad day.  Almost missed the plane.  Almost 10 years later, I was returning stateside from a job in Sweden.  Gal at Goteborg looked at my carry-on, looked at me, looked at the bag again, then asked me if I once had had some problems in St. Louis.  It was the same young lady.  We had a good laugh.

[Chuck Feldman]

I want to pass on some information to all of you.  I am retired from the Nuclear power industry and repiring, calibrating and certifying the plant entry scanning equipment was my work.      Explosives are mostly derived from products that are made by reacting various materials with Nitric acid. There are many chemicals that are produced this way. Some are not explosives by themselves but never the less they still carry the nitric traces. The amount of this material needed to set off the entry scanners is extremely small. The latest machines are using what is called puffers to scan the subjects in the scanner. These machines are also looking for metallic items as you all know.  It would be possible for a hotdog to set off the alarm in a scanner because the preservative in the Hotdog is based on a product that is made with Nitric acid.

 I have checked my Flying box including the igniter and have had no problems with that method.   Chuck Feldman Stuart , Fl.

[Randy Powell]

As it turns out, TSA checked my bag. There was a TSA "we inspected your bag" notice sitting on top. Guess it was OK since they did throw my PA 40UL in the trash. Didn't look like they even disturbed it. The clothes were still folded and it looked like the boxes and such weren't even opened. I hope this means the inventory and letter sitting on top did the trick. Seems so.

This is me taking a shower to wash off the two gallons of sweat.

[john e. holliday]

Glad the picture didn't come thru.  Hope to see you.  DOC Holliday

[Chris McMillin]

I went to Dan McEntee's and he loaned me an OS FP40. I left it in my carry-on roller-bag and went through security about five times. Never had one guy say one thing.
A few years back, I carried two PA 61's back from St. Louis and the young x-ray scanner person wanted to see what they were. I told him they were model airplane engines and he wanted to see them anyway. He took them out and looked them over, and then asked again, "...what are they?". His supervisor repeated that, "...the man told you, they are model airplane engines." Our scanner person didn't have any knowledge of such a thing, and questioned in this manner, "How do I know that's what they are?" His supervisor finally told him that if he didn't know before, he knows now that objects like that are model airplane engines, and to let me go.
It all depends on the individual, there are no "standards" as such, each airport has it's own rules.  With the Fed running the TSA, and the PR stunt aspect of security at airports, we will always be suspect.
Glad you made it, Randy.
Chris...