Help identify #71 yellow stunt ship with black deck - new leadouts

[CosmicWind]

Hi Folks,
I need to carve into this beauty to replace the lead outs.
Can you help identify the model so I can locate and purchase plans? I removed the cowling.
Some think it may be a Vector 40, or a precursor.
How would you suggest i get to the bell crank with the least damage?
Thanks,
Tom

[Randy Cuberly]

Hi Folks,
I need to carve into this beauty to replace the lead outs.
Can you help identify the model so I can locate and purchase plans? I removed the cowling.
Some think it may be a Vector 40, or a precursor.
How would you suggest i get to the bell crank with the least damage?
Thanks,
Tom

Use a nice new #11 Xacto blade and slice the top off the fuselage about 2 inches in front of and 2 inches behind the canopy.  slice carefully at about a 45 degree angle to the sides avoiding the glue joint with the sides of the fuselage.
Done carefully it will fit right back into the fuselage when you've done whatever needs to be done inside.  You will probably have to slice into the center planking of the wing also, so be sure to use some fiberglass cloth to reinforce the planking after you replace it!

Show some pictures of what's wrong when you get in there!

I'd say that's a Vector 40 of some vintage,  Perhaps even a slightly modified ARF!

Randy Cuberly!

[Phil Krankowski]

A sideways idea...

If the landing gear is screwed or bolted, removing may provide enough visibility to determine if the bellcrank is more accessable from above or below.   They look like flat aluminum gear. 

Otoh it might have closed off holes or the holes do not show anything directly due to being deep.

[Steve Helmick]

For "just" leadouts, I would suggest going in from the bottom, because the surgery/repair would be less ugly, and structurally, it would make no difference. Same stuff in the way, right? 

OTOH, if I had suspicions that I needed to work on the pushrods and flap horn stuff (I do, on the Mutant Magnum), I'd go in from the top, like Randy suggested.    Steve 

[Dave Hull]

From the one angle it looks like a Vector 40. I have gone inside the ARF Vector 40 for repairs. You are not going to see the bellcrank area thru the landing gear bolt holes. The wing is planked there. I have the plans for the Brodak Vector 40 kit. The bellcrank pivot is 3-1/32" behind the leading edge at the fuselage side and inboard from the center by 7/16". The pushrod is outboard, not inboard. The kit plans show a 4" bellcrank, so it is quite close to the leading edge.

If the leadout damage that you are fixing is not inside (ie. the damage is at one of the eyelets) then I'd go in thru the bottom. Take the fuselage bottom planking out all the way forward to the plywood landing gear mount. You need to go forward that far to get to the front hole on the bellcrank. The bellcrank leadout hole will only be about 1/2" back, so be prepared to do a bit of knitting in a bucket. For the rear leadout, you should probably make the cut back at least 5 inches from the gear mounting plate. I would go 6 or even 7" to make leadout installation easier. The reason is that there should be a partial bulkhead in there somewhere. Again the kit plans show one at 4" back that you are going to have to cut out anyway. The ARF that I worked over (looking at photos I took) had one about there, and the one behind it was a bit farther forward than shown on the plans. I just pulled out the entire separate "wing access filler piece" and rebuilt the structure in situ to actually fit. This was no big deal and because the parts now fit, it looked better than before the repairs. Obviously I was working with a plastic covering which was easy to redo on the new areas. If yours is painted and you are going to do this without doing touchup, I think Randy's comments on making slanted cuts along the sides and back are in order. But go all the way to the gear mount with your first cuts.

On the one I did, the bottom planking was cross-grained, and thinner than what the plans showed. Not a problem, but expect the unexpected.

If you go in thru the bottom, I would put some CyA on the blind nuts for the landing gear. On the ARF I worked on, three of these had pushed out and were rattling around loose inside. The holes in the plywood and gear were tight, and pushing on the screws to get them to engage caused the nuts to be pushed out. To prevent this, I opened up the holes in the gear a bit. Problem solved.

If there is a known flap linkage problem or you think you might have to replace the bellcrank, the top cutout is, unfortunately the better bet. I don't know if the ARF has a bellcrank platform or not. That is the issue. The kit plans show a "floating" bellcrank and if I believed that was how the model was built, I'd definitely go in thru the bottom knowing that the platform would not be in the way. You probably could get an answer on that from Randy Smith, the designer.

Good luck. This shouldn't be bad once you have committed to making the first cut. I hope your plane is like the plans and later ARFs else some of this info may mislead you.

Dave "McSlow" Hull

PS--I have done enough of these rebuilds now that I want one of those "borescope" attachments for my iPhone. They are pretty cheap, and if the tip is small enough to snake down thru a wing so you might get a peek inside you could diagnose and plan repairs better without so much of a "let's cut into it and see what we got" mentality. If anyone has tested these out, please give us a report!

PPS--And friends don't let friends solder on stranded wire leadouts...at least on the parts you plan on leaving in the airplane! Motorman is right--it is much easier to use the old leadout as a fish-wire if it is still in there!

[Ken Culbertson]

Just finished doing this to an ARF Nobler. using Randy's method.  Complete success.  You will probably have to put in some bracing where the center planking was removed.  Striping tape like the RC guys use covers the scars.  I went the full Monty and replaced all of it except for the horns so I took off about 12".  If it is floating you might get away with a couple of holes in the sheeting.

Good luck but it is worth it.

[Joe Yau]

Oops wrong post..

[M Spencer]

As FUSELAGES are easy , or at least the square part is , and without one the whole ?? control systems accesssable , maybe. Almost .

Laying out another Fuse / Sides / Bearers / Doublers , if the engine bay parts suss  or wrong fit ,

lets you get at things unhindered . Trashing the original sides at least , whack the top & bottom off with say a bread knife ,
block sand , coarse paper , the top & bottom blacks flat to fit , pre dopeing & covering the sides , can be quicker than getting
all fiddly & microscopic .

took the aft fuse off , to high point , on one . Threw a bit of extra length in aft while I was at it , and restyled .
Anyway , with rear fuse removed , from wingspar back , theres not much in your way , if the horns are soft too.

Glueing / Splicing them to wing , then sternpost & bulkheads , you can put a straight edge down it , or set level from the bench ,
to get the tailplane dead level or slight + incidence easy enough .

A few blocks ea side , on a level surface , even gets the wings flat , while measuring hinge to hinge Ea side to see its all square . .

While you turn it into a Mustang . . . . .

Heres a ppitcher of a .028 Nelson Stainless L O Wire ( end ) soldered with Duzall phoshoric acid flux & plumbers solder .This Very Friday .
Contaminants removed with flux when heated & wiped with acetone / toothbrush . etc etc . Ifin youucan gettum there .

[CosmicWind]

Hello All,
Thank you for the tips. I'll make sure to use a very sharp blade, do some pre-cut pondering, and examine the Vector plans, arriving today from Brodak.
I'll post a few photos of the work and what she looks like afterwards.
Fly on, friends!
Tom
P.S. check out the new Piston Popper website at www.pistonpoppers.com . It includes a link to Shug's many videos (woo buddy!). "Noses" may be one of my favorite pages on the site.

[john e. holliday]

Thanks Tom for the link,   Just spent dome time looking at all the good photos.

[Brett Buck]

Use a nice new #11 Xacto blade and slice the top off the fuselage about 2 inches in front of and 2 inches behind the canopy.  slice carefully at about a 45 degree angle to the sides avoiding the glue joint with the sides of the fuselage.
Done carefully it will fit right back into the fuselage when you've done whatever needs to be done inside.  You will probably have to slice into the center planking of the wing also, so be sure to use some fiberglass cloth to reinforce the planking after you replace it!

  And JUST the planking. Leave the spar in place, cut away the sheeting ahead of it and behind it, but don't cut the spar itself. That will make it slightly more difficult but your wing has a chance of staying together afterwards.

     Brett

[CosmicWind]

Thanks everyone. Great forum of information. I really appreciate the tips and approaches.
Because of the way it failed, I believed the up lead out wire just pulled loose. Partly because that fuselage is painted way above my skill level and I don't want to damage it, I'll try to replace both lead outs from the bottom as suggested by some.

[Ken Culbertson]

Thanks everyone. Great forum of information. I really appreciate the tips and approaches.
Because of the way it failed, I believed the up lead out wire just pulled loose. Partly because that fuselage is painted way above my skill level and I don't want to damage it, I'll try to replace both lead outs from the bottom as suggested by some.

Keep in mind that if it is a conventional plywood bellcrank mount you will probably not be able to get to the aft  connection through the bottom, maybe even both.  If it is floating, you are fine.  You might want to lift some of the bottom planking near the bellcrank first.  If it is floating there should be some evidence of the shaft poking through the wing but not always.

Good Luck

[CosmicWind]

Very good tip. Thank you. I will take it slow.

[Richard Field]

Hi Tom,

My understanding was the original ARC/ARF Vector 40 had a plywood box framing the Bell-Crank limiting ready access to both lead-outs.

I have a Vector 40 ARF that released a lead-out from the Bell-Crank during a pull-test. Fortunately it happened the week after flying in a local contest 
Apart from that the plane is fine & was a great flier that's sadly hung on the wall since, so it would be good to see how the lead-outs can be changed.

Cheers,
Richard

Very good tip. Thank you. I will take it slow.

[Richard Field]

Hi Tom,

My Vector 40 ARF was in poorer condition than memory served so I cut right into to it to replace the lead-Outs. Funny how it looked OK on the wall from 10 feet below....

These pics will show you where to cut to access the bell-Crank & Rod-End from both ends with minimal impact on the structure. Each one tells the story.
Note that there is a Self Locking Nut between the Bell-Crank and upper plywood mount that'll prevent easy Bolt removal - this was the hardest item to deal with & won't be going back in with the new floating setup.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Richard Field