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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Scott Richlen on March 15, 2023, 07:20:37 PM

Title: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 15, 2023, 07:20:37 PM
I'm trying to get my plane ready for papering and am almost there, but when I opened my Qt can of Certified Butyrate Dope it had gelled!  I've added Certified Thinner, but I think the gelling process is too far along.  So then I go to Aircraft Spruce and they've got no availability until May.  Acck!!

Now what do I do?  Where do I find more Certified or what goes over it?  Will Brodaks?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Tim Wescott on March 15, 2023, 07:35:40 PM
Try Wicks, and hope they're not also out.
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Robert Zambelli on March 15, 2023, 08:30:07 PM
 Call Brodak and find out
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: EricV on March 15, 2023, 09:26:46 PM
I'm trying to get my plane ready for papering and am almost there, but when I opened my Qt can of Certified Butyrate Dope it had gelled!  I've added Certified Thinner, but I think the gelling process is too far along.  So then I go to Aircraft Spruce and they've got no availability until May.  Acck!!

Now what do I do?  Where do I find more Certified or what goes over it?  Will Brodaks?

Thanks!

I always got my certified at aircraft spruce. Did you check there?

I just did a quick check...looks like they have it, also looks like dope got pricey since I last bought some.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/dopesthinnrsolvents1.php

Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 16, 2023, 06:24:47 AM
Quote
I just did a quick check...looks like they have it,

Not the non-tautening.  It is out of stock and won't ship until May 8.
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 16, 2023, 06:27:46 AM
Quote
Try Wicks

Already did.  They don't carry it.
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: doug coursey on March 16, 2023, 09:39:51 AM
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/a1690butyrate.php
RANDOLPH DOPE...BUT NO COMPATABLE WITH CERTIFIED,,ALSO BRODAK IS RANDOLPH
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Steve Helmick on March 16, 2023, 10:11:58 AM
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/a1690butyrate.php
RANDOLPH DOPE...BUT NO COMPATABLE WITH CERTIFIED,,ALSO BRODAK IS RANDOLPH

It would be very strange for Randolph and Certified to NOT be compatable, since Randolph owns Certified, wouldn't it? It has been written here that using a different thinner will cause problems, but it isn't the brand of dope that is doing it. Sticking with the same thinner is the key. Most everybody around here uses Kleen Strip (brand) Lacquer Thinner, commonly available at Home Depot.  D>K Steve https://www.homedepot.com/s/lacquer%20thinners?NCNI-5

PS: Around here many types of dope can be bought in most any 7-11 parking lot. You want to stay away after dark, when the gunfire starts. The local PD will be along well after the shooting stops, to "police" the brass.   
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: doug coursey on March 16, 2023, 10:59:53 AM
It would be very strange for Randolph and Certified to NOT be compatable, since Randolph owns Certified, wouldn't it? It has been written here that using a different thinner will cause problems, but it isn't the brand of dope that is doing it. Sticking with the same thinner is the key. Most everybody around here uses Kleen Strip (brand) Lacquer Thinner, commonly available at Home Depot.  D>K Steve https://www.homedepot.com/s/lacquer%20thinners?NCNI-5

PS: Around here many types of dope can be bought in most any 7-11 parking lot. You want to stay away after dark, when the gunfire starts. The local PD will be along well after the shooting stops, to "police" the brass.
OFF CERTIFIED WEB SITE
Do not mix Certified Coatings dopes and thinners with Randolph products as they are not always compatible. Use all Certified Coatings products or all Randolph products.
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Tom Luciano on March 16, 2023, 11:11:44 AM
I have brought solidified dope back to life with acetone. Your results may vary.
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 16, 2023, 12:58:15 PM
I filled the can with Keen Strip Lacquer thinner.  Stirred, shaked, stirred, shaked, stirred.  Let's see what happens....
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 16, 2023, 01:09:20 PM
By the way, I checked with Cromax (someone had said they took over the Dupont paint line) and they said: "The closest to 3608S is the 105 Lacquer Thinner."

Has anyone tried the 105 Lacquer Thinner from Cromax?  How did it work?
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Bill Morell on March 16, 2023, 01:11:13 PM
I've been using Klean Strip ever since Larry Fernandez recommended it. So far zero problems.......
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: 944_Jim on March 16, 2023, 03:53:59 PM
Mr Scott,
I use Deft clear sanding sealer (PN 010 if I remember right) as if it were nitrate. It topcoats with butyrate fine if airbrushed. I can check and post if you are on the front end of papering.
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 16, 2023, 05:04:10 PM
Thanks Jim.  I've got 2 or 3 coats of clear on the balsa (depending on the part) and only need a couple more and then I'll paper.  I'll probably use a zinc stearate mix for filler.  I'm thinking I'll use an auto finish on it to minimize chances that the finish will go bad.

I'm going from a Certified clear cut with Certified thinner to a Certified clear cut with Kleen Strip thinner, so I'm getting a little nervous as i've had finishes go bad when I didn't pay enough attention to what I was using.
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Dave_Trible on March 16, 2023, 05:22:57 PM
Scott in this early stage I doubt it will be a big problem.  I've had Certified clear OVER Sig colors.  The only issue was the clear didn't really adhere to the color-even BOTH being thinned with Klean Strip thinner.  If you had to patch something you'd find the clear will peel off like cellophane.  If you are yet to cover the ship then the covering should bury what's below and shouldn't matter.  I've gone over to Randolph mostly because it is lighter in weight from being less dense with filler than Certified.  It should go on over what you have-even if the dopes don't really etch and bond together.  I'm pretty sure you won't have any orange peel or rejection issues, especially with a covering (silkspan) barrier.  I get my Randolph through Aircraft Spruce.  They have two shipping points.  If one is out they will ship from the other.  I've not tried to order anything less than a gallon.

Dave
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 16, 2023, 07:37:13 PM
Thanks Dave!
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: dave siegler on March 17, 2023, 09:49:01 AM
Wag aero

https://www.wagaero.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=&q=dope (https://www.wagaero.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=&q=dope)
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: George Waters on March 17, 2023, 12:09:25 PM
Scott   I have used 105 thinner with no issues.  George
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 20, 2023, 03:51:11 PM
Quote
I've been using Klean Strip ever since Larry Fernandez recommended it. So far zero problems.......

Oh-oh!  There a bunch of different Kleen Strip Lacquer Thinners: J9365, J9357, J8112, J8735 in the gallon can.  Which do you use?

I had some J9365 and mixed it in with the Certainteed dope and it actually seems to have brought it back to life.  But what hapens when I acually use it?
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Dave_Trible on March 20, 2023, 04:33:37 PM
Scott the only one Home Depot sells....never knew they had more than that.

Dave
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 20, 2023, 05:25:58 PM
Quote
Scott the only one Home Depot sells....never knew they had more than that.

Unfortunately, those are all numbers from the thinners that Home Depot sells locally (within 20 miles of my home.)
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Bill Morell on March 21, 2023, 10:43:49 AM
Unfortunately, those are all numbers from the thinners that Home Depot sells locally (within 20 miles of my home.)

It's the one in the blue and brown can. It MUST say Max VOC on the back of the can.
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Dave_Trible on March 21, 2023, 12:49:08 PM
Scott this is the one I’ve used for at least 15 years.  It’s also the one I remember as the only stock item in the store.

Dave
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 21, 2023, 03:34:06 PM
Quote
It's the one in the blue and brown can. It MUST say Max VOC on the back of the can.

Mine says Max VOC: 25 g/l

What is the Max VOC on your can?

Thanks
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Scott Richlen on March 21, 2023, 03:36:52 PM
Quote
Scott this is the one I’ve used for at least 15 years.  It’s also the one I remember as the only stock item in the store.

Dave 

Your can says J9363 which is still different than the numbers I referenced earlier.  Makes it sort of hard to know what you're getting.

Whats the Max VOC on the back of your can?
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Dave_Trible on March 21, 2023, 04:00:23 PM
Scott I’ve studied the back of this can and there is no such info listed.  I don’t even know what that means.... I know it just works flawlessly with every brand of dope I’ve used it on for years. 

Dave
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Miotch on March 21, 2023, 04:01:33 PM
Just went and picked up the quart I used for thinning some old thickened clear SIG dope.  It is J9364.  I suspect the "4" may have something to do with the can size, but don't know.

The Klean Strip website is no help.  They only have category of Lacquer Thinner and Lacquer Thinner California.  They have one SDS sheet for the Lacquer Thinner and another one for Lacquer Thinner California.

For what it's worth, mine thinned the dope nicely.  But I haven't tried spraying it.  I can barely read the back of my quart can and I don't see Max VOC anywhere.

https://kleanstrip.com/category/solvents-and-thinners/

Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 21, 2023, 05:30:24 PM
  Some of this labeling is going t vary from state to state, as some states have more strict regulations than other. I remember when DuPont 3608S wa the nest that you could get, then after a while, some states would not allow it for sale. I think it was "3608W" om some states, and it just did noy work. I may be remembering this wrong, but I think I have the basics correct.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Help! I need more dope!
Post by: Brett Buck on March 22, 2023, 12:16:27 AM
Scott I’ve studied the back of this can and there is no such info listed.  I don’t even know what that means.... I know it just works flawlessly with every brand of dope I’ve used it on for years. 

  The problem is that everybody doesn't get the same thing, even though it in the same can with the same part number. I found some Kleen-Strip that worked with K&B SuperPoxy, it was a solution to the thinner issue. Went back to get some more, same can, same shelf, same store, same part number two weeks later. Put it in my primer - curdled up immediately.

   I think you are getting OK results because thinning dope is particularly undemanding, but it definitely is not the same thing from batch to batch.

      Brett