Author Topic: KOI Update Stunt Contest January 15, 16 & 17 (Read 9200 times)

Gene Martine · « **on:** December 12, 2015, 02:22:36 PM »

The 2016 King Orange International will be from January 15th-17th. Attached is the flyer and the waiver for the contest. For additional information, please see the post in the events section:

http://stunthanger.com/smf/event's/king-orange-january-15-16-17-2016/

The hotel information is attached on the flyer. The Holiday Inn appears to be the cheapest of the hotels in the area.

KOI Update

Hope everyone had a happy & safe holiday. It's 12 days before the KOI 2016 (Jan. 15-17). We'll be flying on the asphalt area at the west end of the field.
For those of you that mailed your waiver to Lynn Weedman please, resend them to me
at gmflying@bellsouth.net.
The BBQ caterer will be back this year. He has rounded out the menu (see below), and again. like last year, we are taking orders in advance.
Thanks,
Gene Martine (CD)

Catered Food for the KOI
Food will be available for those who pre-order by Wednesday Jan 13.
E-mail your order to: gmflying@bellsouth.net

Saturday Menu Sunday Menu
-(2) Pulled pork sandwiches       - Chicken (2) pieces
-Chips                - One side (potato salad)
-Soda                - Soda
                - Roll
$9 Per person             $8 Per person

Will Davis · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2015, 05:35:38 PM »

To anyone that has not attended the koi recently, there are a lot of nice new hotels, resturants , etc right across the interstate from the flying field exit.

Looking forward to the KOI , great site, unlimited flying circles for practice , good contest to start the year off

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2015, 06:08:11 PM »

Got a room at the Holiday Inn at the advertised rate. Looking forward to a great contest!

Gene Martine · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2015, 08:24:01 PM »

See you in January.
Gene

Gene Martine · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2016, 04:13:11 PM »

KOI Update
Hope everyone had a happy & safe holiday. It's 12 days before the KOI 2016 (Jan. 15-17). We'll be flying on the asphalt area at the west end of the field.
For those of you that mailed your waiver to Lynn Weedman please, resend them to me
at gmflying@bellsouth.net.
The BBQ caterer will be back this year. He has rounded out the menu (see below), and again. like last year, we are taking orders in advance.
Thanks,
Gene Martine (CD)

Catered Food for the KOI
Food will be available for those who pre-order by Wednesday Jan 13.
E-mail your order to: gmflying@bellsouth.net

Saturday Menu     Sunday Menu
-(2) Pulled pork sandwiches      - Chicken (2) pieces
-Chips                 - One side (potato salad)
-Soda                 - Soda
                 - Roll
$9 Per person              $8 Per person

Will Davis · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2016, 07:31:02 PM »

The food last year was best meal I had all weekend, really good fresh cooked and well prepared,.

looking forward to going to sunny Florida ,

John Craig · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2016, 06:37:33 PM »

KOI 2016

Please remember, Gene Martine needs your Waivers & requests for Lunch as soon as possible!

John Craig · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2016, 04:09:29 AM »

Long range weather forecast, at the moment, looks good for the KOL.

Will Davis · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2016, 07:16:27 PM »

Weather looks great , gets better the closer we get, plan to be there on Friday around noon ,

Will Davis · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2016, 08:10:28 PM »

Weather was clear but windy on Friday. Great air late in the day , lots of hanger flying going on then dinner at a local eatery . Field is set up at end of runway 200 feed wide , very smooth asphalt .plenty of practice time .

Tomorrow is ots. N30. And profile. Looks like great weather

Will Davis · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2016, 03:49:28 PM »

Today's scoreboards, great , no sun overcast day, when sun came out, it was to your back, great , very light wind today, light rain late pm as things were wrapping up,

Time to go eat , then work on tomorrow's efforts,

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2016, 06:47:31 AM »

Rain blowing horizontal in a howling wind this morning. Gonna be rough.

Dave_Trible · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2016, 08:25:09 AM »

Quote from: Steve Fitton on January 17, 2016, 06:47:31 AM

Rain blowing horizontal in a howling wind this morning. Gonna be rough.

Typical Top 20 day at the Nats. But good luck and have fun...while we look out at the snow.

Dave

Mike Ferguson · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2016, 12:34:35 PM »

I'm just excited that the Gene Schaffer-designed "Judge" got to make an appearance at KOI, after an absence from the skies for 40+ years ... !

(Photo by Pete Ferguson)

jose modesto · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2016, 12:39:19 PM »

Thank you for posting that photo. I'm 13 again.
Jose Modesto

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2016, 03:03:07 PM »

I was feeling sick and bailed around noon, but they decided to fly when the sun came out and got in 2 rounds of Expert and a fly off after all. I was texted this great pic a little while ago, and Steves grin tells the story.
Congrats Buddy!

Doug Moon · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2016, 07:50:46 PM »

Quote from: Eric Viglione on January 17, 2016, 03:03:07 PM

I was feeling sick and bailed around noon, but they decided to fly when the sun came out and got in 2 rounds of Expert and a fly off after all. I was texted this great pic a little while ago, and Steves grin tells the story.
Congrats Buddy!

+10000!!

Way to go!!

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #17 on:** January 18, 2016, 08:12:41 AM »

Thanks to Gene and all the First Coast Control Line club guys who put on another great KOI. Saturday was a great day to fly stunt, Sunday not so much(!) Everyone who flew Sunday did great work with wind flying and not a plane was scratched! We had a chance to think about the stuff in PW's wind flying article as well as apply some stuff we saw Billy, Brett and Fitz doing in the wind at the Nats this year!

My "grin" in that picture was tempered a bit by the dawning realization that I still faced a 740 mile drive through the dark and (snow) to get home!

Matt Colan · « **Reply #18 on:** January 18, 2016, 12:58:46 PM »

Here's a few pictures I took with my phone from this year's KOI. The wind was brutal on Sunday, but it was impressive watching everyone fly their airplanes through the wind without incident. Flying in that kind of wind can definitely be a confidence booster knowing that you can make it through. It was a great contest! I hope I can make it next year.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #19 on:** January 18, 2016, 01:33:41 PM »

I love the rain "shadows" where the planes were sitting LOL
thanks for sharing, sounds like you battled the conditions and survived

Paul Walker · « **Reply #20 on:** January 18, 2016, 02:17:40 PM »

Didn't see a scoreboard. How did you do Matt?

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2016, 02:21:33 PM »

Im not Matt, but I saw iton his facebook page,, Steve Fitton first
Matt second
Josais Delgado third and Eric Taylor fourth,,
hope I didnt steal your thunder Matt

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #22 on:** January 18, 2016, 02:41:46 PM »

Matt came in second in Expert based on his first round flight scores. The wind was moderate in the first round, but quickly picked up until it frequently exceeded the wind on Top 20 day 2015. I was impressed by the gust in my flyoff flight (during the triangles) where I saw the rubber mat used to mark the circle center suddenly whisked away by the wind. Matt had some big winds in the flyoff that exceeded the control forces he had available during the outside square (I think) and triangles? After it happened twice he abandoned the flight so the plane didn't get killed. I am confident he will find what adjustment is needed to make the plane ready for the next windy contest. At the time we thought he had felt something give in the plane itself, either way it seems sensible not to push too hard when its not the Nats.

I think we would have had much more wind flying participation but for the fact the morning weather was hurricane conditions, and most people packed up and got started on their trip home.

We had one advanced pilot try the wind, Gerry Glier who put up a very creditable flight on a PA-61 powered SV-11.

Gene Martine · « **Reply #23 on:** January 18, 2016, 03:25:19 PM »

To all:
I hope everyone had a great time. We would of had a hard time if we didn't have some very good outside help. Special thanks by name will follow as soon as I get all the paper work together.
Gene

Matt Colan · « **Reply #24 on:** January 18, 2016, 04:53:08 PM »

Quote from: Paul Walker on January 18, 2016, 02:17:40 PM

Didn't see a scoreboard. How did you do Matt?

As Steve and Mark mentioned, I came in 2nd in expert. Steve got me by three points for the win in expert. During the flyoff on my flight, the wind started out moderate, but increased to the point where I felt like I needed to step into the airplane to keep myself standing upright during my squares and triangles. I also felt like I was running out of elevator during those maneuvers. After my triangles and feeling the equivalent of a pull test on my past two maneuvers in addition to feeling like running out of elevator, I decided it wasn't worth risking my only airplane ready to fly in Florida (for now) and just flew out the rest of the flight. Had it been top 20 day at the NATS, I would have kept going.

Now that I have had a day to think about that last flight, I think my feeling of running out of elevator was a combination of things. In the first flight, I flew fairly big and soft to keep my energy going and not lose any line tension. That method worked perfectly and I never lost line tension throughout the entire flight. On my flyoff flight, I went with the same approach, and that may have been a contributing factor to the lack of elevator, rather than actually hitting the corners I normally would. Also the insane line tension I experienced certainly wasn't helping anything. Definitely something for me to think about in the future when I fly in winds like that again.

Jared Hays · « **Reply #25 on:** January 18, 2016, 05:11:07 PM »

Where is the KOI contest?

Matt Colan · « **Reply #26 on:** January 18, 2016, 05:19:51 PM »

Quote from: Jared Hays on January 18, 2016, 05:11:07 PM

Where is the KOI contest?

Jacksonville

john e. holliday · « **Reply #27 on:** January 18, 2016, 06:16:52 PM »

I guess you guys were lucky as the internet showed high wind and tornado damage in central Florida. Thanks for the pictures.

EddyR · « **Reply #28 on:** January 19, 2016, 06:24:59 AM »

Starting in 1973 I made the KOI 20 years in a row. Some times I would be in a Tshirt and get a sun burn and one time I had to use a broom to clear snow for a take off spot. One year it was 28 degrees and wind for the flyoff. Bill Rich won that year as I and the other judge sat in my truck looking through the front window.
Ed

afml · « **Reply #29 on:** January 19, 2016, 07:46:38 AM »

GREAT contest! Great food!!!! SUPER Friends! WELL DONE Gene & company!
"Tight Lines!"

Wes

Art Jessup · « **Reply #30 on:** January 19, 2016, 02:55:11 PM »

Congrats to both Steve and Gerry, great flying guys!!
aj

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #31 on:** January 19, 2016, 03:09:03 PM »

Based on the above pictures I'm assuming there is a Jacksonville in Alaska...right?

Ted

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #32 on:** January 19, 2016, 03:40:12 PM »

Quote from: Matt Colan on January 18, 2016, 04:53:08 PM

As Steve and Mark mentioned, I came in 2nd in expert. Steve got me by three points for the win in expert. During the flyoff on my flight, the wind started out moderate, but increased to the point where I felt like I needed to step into the airplane to keep myself standing upright during my squares and triangles. I also felt like I was running out of elevator during those maneuvers. After my triangles and feeling the equivalent of a pull test on my past two maneuvers in addition to feeling like running out of elevator, I decided it wasn't worth risking my only airplane ready to fly in Florida (for now) and just flew out the rest of the flight. Had it been top 20 day at the NATS, I would have kept going.

Now that I have had a day to think about that last flight, I think my feeling of running out of elevator was a combination of things. In the first flight, I flew fairly big and soft to keep my energy going and not lose any line tension. That method worked perfectly and I never lost line tension throughout the entire flight. On my flyoff flight, I went with the same approach, and that may have been a contributing factor to the lack of elevator, rather than actually hitting the corners I normally would. Also the insane line tension I experienced certainly wasn't helping anything. Definitely something for me to think about in the future when I fly in winds like that again.

Hi Matt,

Look closely at your CG location. The symptoms you describe are typical of a CG further forward than necessary on a ship with modern proportions...in particular, appropriately large tail volume and modestly proportioned and movement flaps. If you were running out of elevator on this ship (this is the take apart Thundergazer, isn't it?) it is almost certainly the case especially if the ship was accelerating in consecutive maneuvers and trying to open up the sizes to a point you couldn't overcome it...which is what it sounds like.

A combination of moving the CG aft while reducing line spacing should permit retaining the good air response rate while noticeably improving response in high winds.

I don't recall if this ship continues your use of the big P.A.s or if you went over the hill to the ohms and amps crowd. If "o and a", some very knowledgeable people have noted the need for a more forward "empty" CG because of the consistent CG throughout the flight. I think this could be over done and I would be inclined to aim for a CG consistent with the IC CG toward the end of the flight...say about the vertical eights or so. By definition, if the airplane is stable in the glide and can be whipped if necessary for landing it is NOT tail heavy. The adjustable handle will give you all the control over response rate you need in the "cockpit" and the aerodynamic effects that are causing the control overloads will, again, be mitigated when flying the airplane in the same state of trim in high winds.

Check the CG location at the mid-span chord (lazy man's MAC). Based on the IC/O and A discussion earlier somewhere between 21 and 25% (empty if IC) aft of the LE should be a good place to be for the T-gazer. If you're much forward of that move it back somewhere in the middle of that and give it a try.

Congratulations! Sounds like a tough battle in which you nearly prevailed. Maybe you can buy Steve a congratulatory Martini (shortly before his next official!)

Ted

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #33 on:** January 19, 2016, 05:29:31 PM »

Quote from: Ted Fancher on January 19, 2016, 03:40:12 PM

Congratulations! Sounds like a tough battle in which you nearly prevailed. Maybe you can buy Steve a congratulatory Martini (shortly before his next official!)

Ted

That would work on me but don't try that with Derek next time he is at King Orange!

Matt Colan · « **Reply #34 on:** January 19, 2016, 08:56:07 PM »

Quote from: Ted Fancher on January 19, 2016, 03:40:12 PM

Hi Matt,

Look closely at your CG location. The symptoms you describe are typical of a CG further forward than necessary on a ship with modern proportions...in particular, appropriately large tail volume and modestly proportioned and movement flaps. If you were running out of elevator on this ship (this is the take apart Thundergazer, isn't it?) it is almost certainly the case especially if the ship was accelerating in consecutive maneuvers and trying to open up the sizes to a point you couldn't overcome it...which is what it sounds like.

A combination of moving the CG aft while reducing line spacing should permit retaining the good air response rate while noticeably improving response in high winds.

I don't recall if this ship continues your use of the big P.A.s or if you went over the hill to the ohms and amps crowd. If "o and a", some very knowledgeable people have noted the need for a more forward "empty" CG because of the consistent CG throughout the flight. I think this could be over done and I would be inclined to aim for a CG consistent with the IC CG toward the end of the flight...say about the vertical eights or so. By definition, if the airplane is stable in the glide and can be whipped if necessary for landing it is NOT tail heavy. The adjustable handle will give you all the control over response rate you need in the "cockpit" and the aerodynamic effects that are causing the control overloads will, again, be mitigated when flying the airplane in the same state of trim in high winds.

Check the CG location at the mid-span chord (lazy man's MAC). Based on the IC/O and A discussion earlier somewhere between 21 and 25% (empty if IC) aft of the LE should be a good place to be for the T-gazer. If you're much forward of that move it back somewhere in the middle of that and give it a try.

Congratulations! Sounds like a tough battle in which you nearly prevailed. Maybe you can buy Steve a congratulatory Martini (shortly before his next official!)

Ted

Hi Ted,

I am still running the PA 61 in the Thundergazer. I don't ever plan on switching to electric, these engines just run too well!

I just checked the CG on the Thundergazer. It's pretty far aft and where it should be for an airplane with this size and proportions. A rough estimate with my fingers has the CG at about 30% aft of the LE at the lazy mans MAC. Now that I measured the CG, I think that running out of elevator feeling was more of a psychological thing for me than anything else.

Now that I know I can fly in wind like this, and the plane will keep chugging along, it's definitely a confidence booster for when I have to fly in that kind of wind on top 20 day in the future.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #35 on:** January 19, 2016, 09:23:15 PM »

MaTT Kind of the same thing I learned in Muncie about my green moster,, well before my battery escapade, ,my practice flights were in more wind than I ever flew in, and gradually got my confidence up,,

Matt Colan · « **Reply #36 on:** January 19, 2016, 09:56:49 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on January 19, 2016, 09:23:15 PM

MaTT Kind of the same thing I learned in Muncie about my green moster,, well before my battery escapade, ,my practice flights were in more wind than I ever flew in, and gradually got my confidence up,,

I don't have a problem flying in 10-12mph wind. When it gets to the 15-20mph and above threshold, I usually start to feel uncomfortable about flying in that and I second guess flying in stuff like that. I think this is the heaviest wind I had ever flown in in a contest and the airplane handled it just fine.

Ted Fancher · « **Reply #37 on:** January 20, 2016, 02:47:55 PM »

Quote from: Matt Colan on January 19, 2016, 08:56:07 PM

Hi Ted,

I am still running the PA 61 in the Thundergazer. I don't ever plan on switching to electric, these engines just run too well!

I just checked the CG on the Thundergazer. It's pretty far aft and where it should be for an airplane with this size and proportions. A rough estimate with my fingers has the CG at about 30% aft of the LE at the lazy mans MAC. Now that I measured the CG, I think that running out of elevator feeling was more of a psychological thing for me than anything else.

Now that I know I can fly in wind like this, and the plane will keep chugging along, it's definitely a confidence booster for when I have to fly in that kind of wind on top 20 day in the future.

OK, cool. Just to double check, though. Is that 30% aft including the flap chord or just the wing?

Ted

p.s. Know what you mean about these modern engines. They're awfully reliable. Plus, they sound like model airplanes!

Matt Colan · « **Reply #38 on:** January 20, 2016, 08:48:19 PM »

Quote from: Ted Fancher on January 20, 2016, 02:47:55 PM

OK, cool. Just to double check, though. Is that 30% aft including the flap chord or just the wing?

Ted

p.s. Know what you mean about these modern engines. They're awfully reliable. Plus, they sound like model airplanes!

30% aft of the wing chord.

I've seen more electronic failures in the same airplane when I've had zero problems with my pipe setup since I put the PA in the Thundergazer.