Author Topic: Still Stuka (Read 4727 times)

john e. holliday · « **on:** January 23, 2007, 11:23:23 AM »

Have not been on here too much the last couple of days. What with crossing duty and the beautiful weather of ice and snow plus sub freezing temps did not feel like doing much. But, I always sstart at the last post that is marked new and go up. The post was referring to what you would build for a 35 size engine. they didn't specify a brand of engine and I know some are stronger than others. I have an OS 35FP that is running bigger props than my 40 FP and both have way more power than any of my fox's. But, the mention was made about Don Still's Stuka Stunt. There is a vast difference between the original his first flew and the kit version. First off is lay the plans on top of each other and it stands out immediately the biggest difference. I do have both sets of plans. In the original the engine, wing and stab are at a negative angle to the fuselage. Also the construction was changed considerably in the kit. The kit nose is longer. I wish I had built the kit flaps according to the original as mine kept warping on me. Of course it was monokoted, so I would iron out the warp and go fly a contest. It did garner me a first in Intermediate at the Lumkin Airfield in Cincinnatti, Ohio while I was attending an AT&T school. I don't think Tom and Jerry Chambers are on this site as they fly the Still Stuka in Old Time and Classic. Another question is, "Is the RSM Kit version the true original or not"? I know Eric says it is old time legal on the box. Later, DOC Holliday

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2007, 10:11:00 AM »

Doc
Need to be more specific when you say "kit" which one are you refering to the Ambroid kit from the sixties (I built one them back then) or the RSM kit currently in production (which I am now currently building for VSC-19). I to have plans for the Ambroid kit and the RSM kit and they are not the same especially in the front end. In particular the engine beam mounts are very different in size and contruction.

I know Eric sent the first kit to Don Still and he built it. The box cover has a picture of Mr. Still holding one of the originals and the one he builf from Eric's kit. Note I said one of the originals, because "the" original was powered by a Fox .29 (according to a note on the RSM plans) but he later built another one powered by a Fox .35. I only mention this because the .35 powered one has a nose that is an inch shorter to compensate for the additional weight. Both are Old Time and Classic legal, at least I think that's what the note said.
Andy

Bill Little · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2007, 12:17:25 PM »

I would like to compare the original Air Trails plans I have from 1952 to the RSM plans.

The Ambroid kit was a later version of one of Don's planes, and had a longer nose than the published 1952 ones.

His 1960 plane at the World Championships had a Fox 25 according to reports. The 25 that was built on the 19 case. The '52 version shows a Fox 29.

Bill <><

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2007, 01:09:08 PM »

Bear
Send me an email with you address and when I am finished I will loan you the RSM plans to do your comparison.
Andy

john e. holliday · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2007, 03:33:39 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Borgogna on January 24, 2007, 10:11:00 AM

Doc
Need to be more specific when you say "kit" which one are you refering to the Ambroid kit from the sixties (I built one them back then) or the RSM kit currently in production (which I am now currently building for VSC-19). I to have plans for the Ambroid kit and the RSM kit and they are not the same especially in the front end. In particular the engine beam mounts are very different in size and contruction.

I know Eric sent the first kit to Don Still and he built it. The box cover has a picture of Mr. Still holding one of the originals and the one he builf from Eric's kit. Note I said one of the originals, because "the" original was powered by a Fox .29 (according to a note on the RSM plans) but he later built another one powered by a Fox .35. I only mention this because the .35 powered one has a nose that is an inch shorter to compensate for the additional weight. Both are Old Time and Classic legal, at least I think that's what the note said.
Andy

Mine was the Ambroid kit. Would like to get one of the RSM kits, but, too manykits now. DOC Holliday

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #5 on:** January 24, 2007, 05:19:10 PM »

To add to the possible confusion, I'll mention that the Still Stuka Stunt is in the first "issue" of FullSizePlans Magazine. At least, I believe it's Don Still's.

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #6 on:** January 24, 2007, 05:37:05 PM »

I have the original plans I got from Don himself. I'll dig them up here directly....

Terry Bolin · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2007, 07:10:00 AM »

I never heard of a "Ambroid" Kit untill this site. Are/Were they the same company that made our glue we used back in the 70's? For entertainment value, what kits did they make?
Terry Bolin

john e. holliday · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2007, 08:39:22 AM »

The other kit that came to mind was for combat, it was called "Whipsaw". Also it is the same company that makes Ambroid Glue which I still use a lot. DOC Holliday

Bill Little · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2007, 12:27:48 PM »

Quote from: Terry Bolin on January 25, 2007, 07:10:00 AM

I never heard of a "Ambroid" Kit untill this site. Are/Were they the same company that made our glue we used back in the 70's? For entertainment value, what kits did they make?
Terry Bolin

AS Doc said, it is the same Ambroid. They bought out a smaller kit company, IIRC. The Whipsaw, and Stuka as well as Bill Werwage's '58 version of the Ares. Also, I cna't remember the other kits, but there were a few.

Bill <><

Trostle · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2007, 04:06:30 PM »

Without going back to the old magazines, besides the kits listed here, there was the Top Kick, a tow line glider to the old A-1 designation which is the size of the current F1H specification.

Keith Trostle

Kreth · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2007, 05:13:56 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Borgogna on January 24, 2007, 10:11:00 AM

Doc
Need to be more specific when you say "kit" which one are you refering to the Ambroid kit from the sixties (I built one them back then) or the RSM kit currently in production (which I am now currently building for VSC-19). I to have plans for the Ambroid kit and the RSM kit and they are not the same especially in the front end. In particular the engine beam mounts are very different in size and contruction.

I know Eric sent the first kit to Don Still and he built it. The box cover has a picture of Mr. Still holding one of the originals and the one he builf from Eric's kit. Note I said one of the originals, because "the" original was powered by a Fox .29 (according to a note on the RSM plans) but he later built another one powered by a Fox .35. I only mention this because the .35 powered one has a nose that is an inch shorter to compensate for the additional weight. Both are Old Time and Classic legal, at least I think that's what the note said.
Andy

I think the original was powered with a Fox .25. It would have been lighter than a Fox .35. The Fox .29 and the Fox .35 were virtually identical except for the piston and sleeve.

Steve Holt · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2007, 10:19:17 PM »

Quote from: Kreth on January 25, 2007, 05:13:56 PM

I think the original was powered with a Fox .25. It would have been lighter than a Fox .35. The Fox .29 and the Fox .35 were virtually identical except for the piston and sleeve.

I grew up in Southwest Louisiana, and Beaumont was pretty close so we went to several contests there. Still's original was indeed powered by a Fox 29, there were no Fox 25's back then. My memory is getting pretty old, but to the best of my recall, the engine was actually a 29R designed for the B Team Racers. The same old memory cells recall a Walker pressure tank and regulator for fuel supply. One really memorable thing about watching it fly is when Still would touch the landing gear on a wing-over. Amazing that this airplane and the original Nobler came out of South Texas the same year.
Steve

Bill Little · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2007, 10:36:20 PM »

Hi Steve,

Don't know which version of the 29 myself, but the '52 Air Trails plans do show a 29, IIRC. HAven't had them out in quite a while, but I remember ".29".

You're right, the first ".19 case" Fox 25 came out in 1954, and some webbing under the crankcase (or somewhere) was added in the last version in 1957. Those .25s are really nice little stunt engines. A .19 case fitted with the .29 sleeve and piston. Lighter than the Fox 35 but pretty strong. Plenty for a plane the size of Don's Stuka.

Windwalker · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2007, 10:46:51 PM »

I live in Beaumont, TX. I know Don Still. Hmmm... I smell an article for the new magazine..

Nick

Bill Little · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2007, 11:00:56 PM »

Quote from: Windwalker on January 25, 2007, 10:46:51 PM

I live in Beaumont, TX. I know Don Still. Hmmm... I smell an article for the new magazine..

Nick

Go for it! An interview with Don, and comparing the plans and kits that have been available to his actual planes and noting any differences. Also, find out what colors his '60 World Championship entry was/is.

Bill <><

Trostle · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2007, 11:20:36 PM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on January 25, 2007, 06:50:16 PM

Ambroid did the A-1 towline, the Jetstream. The Top Kick was by Jetco. I still have one each of those kits and flew them in the 60/70 era.

Ty,

You are right. There seems to be some fading brain cells.

Now, this part is right. I looked it up in my files. The Jetstream was designed by Warren Kurth (of 1/2A Speed fame) and the Top Kick was done by Reid Simpson (of Simpson twin fame).

The Jetstream was published in the Nov 60 issue of American Modeler. The Top Kick was in the Sep 62 issue of Model Airplane News.

I know this thread is about the Don Still Stuka, but this other stuff is interesting too.

So, I will get back on track to the Stuka. The plans published in the Apr 52 issue of Air Trails showed the engine was a "Fox 29". The article stated "Products found most suited to his ship are: Fox .29, Top-Flite prop 9.6..." As has already been explained, the Fox 25 had not yet been invented.

From the plans in Air Trails, the nose from wing LE to prop driver is slightly more than 6 1/2 inches. The Aeromodeller plans (Jan 61) which represented his Stuka that was flown to second place and led the US team to first place at the 1960 World Championships had a nose 8 3/16 inches. By what was published in that Aeromodeller article, this is the version that was going to put into the Ambroid kit. According to that article, "...the design originated in 1950 and has been changed only in detail and length of nose." Also, according to that article, the 1960 version used the Fox 25 instead of the Fox 29 used in the original.

Technically, I would think that the 1960 version (which probably is the Ambroid version) is not OTS legal because of its increased nose length. However, I think the Ambroid version has been allowed whenever it appears in an OTS contest. I am not sure what version the RSM kit represents which has also been allowed in any OTS contest I am familiar with. I will see Eric rule this weekend. (He is staying at my house for our Southwestern Regionals and I will ask him about it.)

Keith Trostle

Trostle · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2007, 11:47:03 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on January 25, 2007, 11:00:56 PM

(clip)

Also, find out what colors his '60 World Championship entry was/is.

Bill <><

The British magazine, Model Aircraft, had a B&W photo on the cover of its Nov 60 issue which covered the then recently completed World Championships. It shows Don Still holding his two Stuka models. I have seen a color photos of those models. One was black with the German markings painted to not look like German markings. The other model has basically light blue wings and horizontal tail, with white LE's and fuselage, and with a dark blue pinstripe separating the two colors and dark blue shading to the light blue behind the dark pinstripe. Markings were in red, white, and blue. It had horizontal bands (blue, white, red, white, blue) across the vertical tail. It is a very attractive paint scheme.

Keith Trostle

Warren Wagner · « **Reply #18 on:** January 26, 2007, 08:27:49 AM »

Quote from: Terry Bolin on January 25, 2007, 07:10:00 AM

I never heard of a "Ambroid" Kit untill this site. Are/Were they the same company that made our glue we used back in the 70's? For entertainment value, what kits did they make?
Terry Bolin

Terry,

Here is a photo of the kit box for the Ambroid Still's Stuka. I believe the price was $9.95, and that was back in about 1961,

As an aside, the kit box has a glossy finish, and it can be restore to pristine appearance with the use of furniture polish, such as "Pledge".....makes it look brand new.

Cheers.

Warren Wagner

Trostle · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2007, 06:50:31 PM »

Quote from: Trostle on January 25, 2007, 11:20:36 PM

From the plans in Air Trails, the nose from wing LE to prop driver is slightly more than 6 1/2 inches. The Aeromodeller plans (Jan 61) which represented his Stuka that was flown to second place and led the US team to first place at the 1960 World Championships had a nose 8 3/16 inches. By what was published in that Aeromodeller article, this is the version that was going to put into the Ambroid kit. According to that article, "...the design originated in 1950 and has been changed only in detail and length of nose." Also, according to that article, the 1960 version used the Fox 25 instead of the Fox 29 used in the original.

Technically, I would think that the 1960 version (which probably is the Ambroid version) is not OTS legal because of its increased nose length. However, I think the Ambroid version has been allowed whenever it appears in an OTS contest. I am not sure what version the RSM kit represents which has also been allowed in any OTS contest I am familiar with. I will see Eric Rule this weekend. (He is staying at my house for our Southwestern Regionals and I will ask him about it.)

Keith Trostle

Based on what I wrote above and what others have posted regrading Don Still's Stuka Stunt, the Ambroid kit and the RSM kit.

I was able to speak with Erick Rule this weekend. Eric runs RSM Distributors and has a wide offering of CL kits, including the Still Stuka.

The RSM kit for Don Still's Stuka is based on the 1950 design that placed at the Nats. The RSM kit is not the version of the Stuka that Don placed in the 1960 World Championships. That 1960 version had a longer nose and is the version that is in the Ambroid kit. Eric has plans signed off by Don Still that the RSM kit is the 1950 version. However, and hoping not to confuse the issue, the plans in the RSM kit show both the long nose and short nosed versions. It is only the short nosed version that is Old Time Stunt Legal.

I hope this is clear.

And thank you for your attention and support for Old Time Stunt.

Keith Trostle

Terry Bolin · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:30:48 PM »

Thanks so much for the picture and post. I never knew Ambriod made kits untill this fourm came along. They still make glue but I wonder when they stop making kits?
I started in feb. 1970 but I don't ever remember hearing about any ambroid kits, maybe they were already gone but also, back then it was just word of mouth no internet info.
Thanks, Terry B.

Bill Little · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2007, 08:40:36 PM »

Quote from: Terry Bolin on January 29, 2007, 08:30:48 PM

Thanks so much for the picture and post. I never knew Ambriod made kits untill this fourm came along. They still make glue but I wonder when they stop making kits?
I started in feb. 1970 but I don't ever remember hearing about any ambroid kits, maybe they were already gone but also, back then it was just word of mouth no internet info.
Thanks, Terry B.

Hi Terry,

AFAIK, Ambroid was fairly short lived in the kit business. I bought my Ambroid Ares around 1964-'65. I *think* they were gone by the end of the '60s, but not positive. Billy tells a GREAT story about the Ambroid Ares kit and it explains some of the early confusion when the '59 Ares plans came out.

Bill <><

Paul Smith · « **Reply #22 on:** January 31, 2007, 09:24:00 PM »

In 1964, Ambroid was advertizing 10 control line offeirngs, plus the RC Charger and the A-1 Jetstream.

At some point they also carried some relabled kits from a rather substandard source, maybe Consolidated or Enterprize.