Author Topic: Heating suggestions (Read 12737 times)

Randy Powell · « **on:** January 12, 2010, 07:32:16 PM »

So, for the last 10 years, I've heated my shop with a relatively small (10,600 BTU) kerosene heater. It's pretty much worn out and really wasn't much good at heating if the temp went below 45 or so. It would eventually heat the shop because there is 10" of insulation in the roof and 4 inches in the walls, but it really has never done the job.

So, I'm planning to replace that with a new heating system. But I don't know what yet. I've thought about just going to a much larger kerosene heater (the one I've been looking at is 23,000 BTUs) or possible one of the even bigger models. But the problem there is it creates a situation where it warm and possibly hot in one area of the shop while the rest of it is somewhat less heated.

I've also looked at a couple of electric based furnaces, but the ones I have looked at recommend a 30amp circuit. I suppose I could put a bigger breaker in (biggest out there is a 20 amp and one circuit that is 30 amp/220 volt), but the furnaces I've looked at are 110v/30amp. The wiring is certainly heavy enough. Not sure how that would work out and electricity is pretty steep here, so I'd probably be better off with a fueled furnace, but I'm willing to listen to arguments. I've also looked at propane, but there are some drawbacks there like setting up a gas line and such. No natural gas in the area, so that's out.

Anyway, I'd love to hear some suggestions. I really need to figure out the best method to heat the shop.

sleepy gomez · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2010, 07:46:06 PM »

If you use kerosene you will find the price prohibitive in many areas of the country. Try $16 per gallon locally. I go to the local airport and get Jet-A for $3.28 per gallon. It seems to be as good as K1.

Dwayne · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2010, 08:54:00 PM »

Could'nt you use something like this?
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/3/HouseHome/1/HeatingAirConditioning/PortableBaseboardHeaters/PRDOVR~0435830P/Honeywell%2BLow%2BProfile%2BSilent%2BComfort%2BHeater.jsp#BVQAWidgetID

Scott Hartford · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2010, 09:25:09 PM »

Or this: https://www.getsnuggie.com/flare/next

Mike Scholtes · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2010, 09:32:59 PM »

What about a pellet wood stove? They are common in Alaska and are ignited automatically by a thermostat. They burn very clean. I used a conventional wood stove when living in Truckee at 7000 feet in the Sierra Nevada mountains, the glass door type that really throws the heat. It was the primary heat source for the whole house, and would make the upstairs rooms unbearably hot if not throttled down. Oh, this was in winter with 20 feet of snow on the ground.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2010, 09:45:39 PM »

Randy,
If you tell me how many cubic feet yoru shop is, I can have the boss do some calcs tomorrow at work and we can figure out how many BTUs you need to actuall heat it efficiently, then you can make a better decision about the best method. My feeling is that any form of wood stove, pellet stove or such isnt the optimum where you paint and sand balsa wood in there. fine dust can be very explosive. I would rather see an electric heat source, or at least a sheilded flame type of setup.

Scott B. Riese · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2010, 10:24:16 PM »

Don't the Amish sell something? .....

Randy Powell · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2010, 11:06:08 PM »

First, kerosene is about 22.00 for 5 gallons here, so that's not too much of a problem. I would resist wood based heat from previous experience (actually had a bad experience with this a long time ago). The paint fumes and sawdust are problematic. The shop is about 900 square feet but has a very high ceiling. It's a high pitched roof and is about 16 feet at the ridge beam.

I like the electric heat idea, but it just a wiring issue. I probably should go by a heating place and talk to them. Baseboard type heaters might be OK, but I'd need several of them to do the job. And no, heating just me it's really an option so the "Snuggie" option is out. Sheesh!

Brett Buck · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2010, 12:28:24 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 12, 2010, 11:06:08 PM

The shop is about 900 square feet but has a very high ceiling. It's a high pitched roof and is about 16 feet at the ridge beam.

I bet you only need a fan. I bet it's plenty warm up at the 12 foot level.

Brett

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2010, 01:03:54 AM »

First thing you might want to do is put in a ceiling fan to circulate the warm air. With a high ceiling it will help a bunch. Didn't say if you had an air conditioner or even needed one but we heat and cool a 20 X 16 office with a through-the-wall heat pump. It runs year around 24-7 and only adds 40-50.00 to our electric bill.

I heat my shop with a propane shop heater hung from the ceiling. Not sure about the cost as our house is on the same 500 gal tank. I keep it set on 55 at night then turn it up when I'm working. I supplement it with a kerosene heater mostly to try to conserve a little on propane.

It wouldn't be real hard to set a 250 gallon propane tank fairly close to your shop and run copper tubing. Many choices for a heater with propain. I wouldn't worry about flame heat, I paint, sand and do all kinds of stuff in my shop with both heaters running.

Not sure how long you could get on one of the large 100# portable propain bottles but might be an option. They hold a little over 20 gallons and with the right heater might last long enough to not be a PTA.

Terry Bolin · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2010, 05:20:18 AM »

Just a thought but how about a "Mr heater" for propane. I used those in my out door shop and was happy.
I didn't like the kero heaters....Stay warm.

Ward Van Duzer · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2010, 08:17:25 AM »

Yes. Multiple (?) non-portable electric baseboards. I did my whole basement rec-room with them. Hooked up to a (or multiple) thermostats you can control on/off, up/down at will with the twist of a dial. I really don't remember, but I think I ran them on 20 amp circuits. A bit more of an effort, but when it's done, it's done! And will probably add to the value of your home.

Ward

phil c · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2010, 10:58:36 AM »

Randy, take Mark's offer, or get a BTU estimate from a furnace contractor to size the heater you need.

Install a ceiling fan, or a couple of the vent systems that pull hot air from the ceiling down to floor level to even out the heat that you do have.

Compare the costs, electric, propane, or heating oil. Most places electric is by far the most expensive, followed by propane and heating oil. Natural gas is usually the least expensive if you can afford the furnace installation.

Pellet stoves, kero heaters, etc. can work, but generally are a maintainence headache. Depends mostly on how much time you want to spend fiddling with wicks, cleaning ash, tweaking the temperature, etc. Any kind of uncontrolled heater is a real safety hazard versus a standard home-heating type furnace. I'd only use one when you can be sure it won't be running unattended for more than a few minutes.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #13 on:** January 13, 2010, 11:59:25 AM »

Thanks Guys,

I was thinking about this one, but it really requires a 30amp circuit:

http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-G73-Electric-Garage-Thermostat/dp/B000TK2SWO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1263408743&sr=8-1

I'm also looking at this one (thanks, Joe) but it would entail getting a propane tank mounted outside and a source of propane. I live out in a, uh, let's just say it's a rural area (we only got trash service about a year ago). Delivery of propane could be a problem and I don't see myself trying to take a 100 gallon propane tank down to have it filled then wrestling it back out. I'll have to check on propane delivery availability:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200332739_200332739

I've used a kerosene heater out there for a long time and other than it not really being big enough, it's worked OK but as noted above, it is something of a pain in maintenance and creates a certain amount of contamination of the environment (soot, ash and such). Electric is probably the easiest, but can be expensive.

I will probably talk to a furnace company about options.

Warren Wagner · « **Reply #14 on:** January 13, 2010, 12:51:05 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 12, 2010, 07:32:16 PM

I've also looked at a couple of electric based furnaces, but the ones I have looked at recommend a 30amp circuit. I suppose I could put a bigger breaker in (biggest out there is a 20 amp and one circuit that is 30 amp/220 volt), but the furnaces I've looked at are 110v/30amp. The wiring is certainly heavy enough. Not sure how that would work out and electricity is pretty steep here, so I'd probably be better off with a fueled furnace, but I'm willing to listen to arguments. I've also looked at propane, but there are some drawbacks there like setting up a gas line and such. No natural gas in the area, so that's out.

Anyway, I'd love to hear some suggestions. I really need to figure out the best method to heat the shop.

Hi Randy,

I just built a new home and workshop up north, for the summer time, and a heat pump was used for both heating and AC. As the heat pump's efficiency goes down in cold temperatures (just when you need it the most), the heating guy suggested an electric baseboard heater to act a backup and support during low temps. It's an 8' unit, but I don't know voltage or wattage.

The temperature in my shop is not maintained constantly at room temperature, so it frequently has to be brough up from as low as 50 degrees. The heat pump ( which was properly sized by the AC contractor) works hard to recover from those low temperatures, but my electric baseboard heater puts out next to nothing as far as heat is concerned. But I must say that it is very quiet ! :-)

I look at electric baseboard heating as being a "soft heat", which is appropriate for rooms where the temperature is maintained at or near normal room temperature most of the time.

If you frequently bring your shop up from the 50's or so, I don't think you will be happy with baseboard heaters, unless you have a whole gang of them. You need high capacity and a fan to move the air throughout the shop. Relying on convection is a slow process. A ceiling fan will help both during the heating periods, and also, those periods that are not hot enough to turn the AC on.

disclaimer: I am not a HVAC technician, nor have I even played one on TV, but I do know what a comfortable shop is. <grin>

Cheers, and warmth.

Warren Wagner

mike hartung · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2010, 01:13:44 PM »

Blond 38-26-32, about 5'8" with a wiggle in her walk and a giggle in her talk. I'm old but not dead. Yea you'll still need the cieling fan. LOL

Randy Powell · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2010, 01:30:43 PM »

Warren,

Well, my original plan was to put a regular forced air furnace in the place. It's actually set up for that. Just never go around to it. What I am probably going to do is go to the local heating/cooling place and see what they can do. I have some other plans (including adding a carport to the side of the garage that will have a paint booth over the top) and it would probably be a good idea to have a heating/cooling guy take a look. I may go ahead and spring for a larger kerosene job in the mean time, but I'm still considering it. Cooling isn't really a problem. No AC needed.

Mike,

Mine is around 5'10" and a long standing heating unit. Not interested in trading her in.

Bill Heher · « **Reply #17 on:** January 13, 2010, 09:49:15 PM »

Your wife is a heating unit- you are lucky. Mine is more like a heat pump- putting her cold feet on me to suck the warmth out of my eerrrrrr mid lower extremities!

For an experiment you can hang a regular box fan up near the ceiling and run it on low speed to see how much it helps - you may be surprised how much heat is hanging around up there.

Bill Sawyer · « **Reply #18 on:** January 13, 2010, 10:13:18 PM »

I have two kero heaters in my shop. Because the 11,000 btu unit would not keep it warm enough I bought one of those round 23,000 units. With both running I can maintain decent temps normally but with the recent cold spell I have not been able to properly heat the shop. I have insulation in the walls and ceiling and sheetrock but the cold is too much for the heaters.

To comment on the round type 23,000 unit: I don't think it puts out much more heat than the 11,000 unit because the smaller one has a blower to circulate air. It does however use a lot more fuel for the amount of heat produced - the smaller one runs almost a day on a tank full but the large one runs the tank out in 3 to 4 hours and the tank holds a lot more. I would trade even to anyone that has a square type of 11,000 with blower for my 23,000 round one. And to answer everyone's question - I bought it new and it ran that way when I got it.

Wayne Collier · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:03:38 AM »

I don't know how much you want to spend or if your shop would have an appropriate place for one, but Lowes/Home Depot/Sears sell heating/cooling units that look like window unit air conditioners but will also put out heat. Many are energy star rated. Some may require more amps than you are currently wired for.

Chuck Feldman · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2010, 05:13:15 AM »

I am to assume you do have a chimney and are exhausting the fumes. I believe all you need to do is get a modern heater that comes with a fan to force the heat where you need it most. As for fuel that is a matter of economy. With the exception of natural gas all forms of heat are about the same. I would not go to wood but a fireplace would be nice. The other thing I would check into is coal. Yes coal, you can store it outside in a pile and coal fires are very hot. Coal also burns slowly and needs little attention once you learn how to use it. Electric in my opinion would be a bad choice. I think you need to circulate the air so the heat can be even. Another thing would be to put in a ceiling and use the upper part for storage. Who knows that done a smaller heater would work for you. Good Luck

David M Johnson · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2010, 07:30:46 AM »

Randy,
I used to live in your neck o the woods. I worked residential construction. One of the neatest ideas I saw was a drywall contractor who had purchased a home furnace at a scratch and dent sale put it on rollers and used a larger sized propane tank to power it. by placing fans throughout the house he could warm the rooms at will to cure the drywall or paint. I would think at would work for your situation. Portable, you could turn it off while painting.

Chuck Feldman · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2010, 02:34:50 PM »

Hey Bill,

Have you ever seen a fire place that operated on gas or electric?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #23 on:** January 14, 2010, 03:06:20 PM »

Well, I was just going to replace my old kerosene job with one of the round ones for now then investigate a more ongoing system with a local heating and cooling place. But Bill Sawyer's comment is making rethink that. Hmmmm......

Paul Smith · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2010, 03:09:01 PM »

I hate electric baseboard heaters. It takes 'em forever to get the place up to temp when you come into a cold house. Plus, no circulation and no filtration.

I'd go with a genuine natural gas forced air furnace. Move the air and trap your sawdust in a throwaway filter, instead of convecting it up on the rafters like a passive baseboard system.

You can walk into a cold chop, jack up the thermostat and feel warm air in three minutes.

catdaddy · « **Reply #25 on:** January 14, 2010, 03:51:00 PM »

Randy,
You never said whether you had a ceiling fan. I'd definetly install one with that high of a ceiling and double your BTU's to about 50,000.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2010, 04:40:30 PM »

Yea, there's a ceiling fan of sorts. It's small, but there isn't room for a bigger one due to the setup on the roof supports.

I talked to a heating/cooling guy and he suggests a propane system. It looks like there is delivery propane available. so I may go what way with a regular propane driven furnace. I like the idea of a readily disposable filter that can be changed regularly. But it's likely a project for the summer. I have a couple of kerosene jobs coming right now and I'll use them for the time being.

Phil Coopy · « **Reply #27 on:** January 14, 2010, 05:31:17 PM »

My shop is 600sqft with a 10ft ceiling. I bought one of those DAYTON electric ceiling mount heaters off of Ebay, wired it in (30amp ckt) and it works great. I did however have 12" of insulation blown in the attic space.

Phil

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #28 on:** January 14, 2010, 06:03:14 PM »

My brother Neil is a good welder among other things. He fabricated a forced hot air stove in our basement in Mass from a Pop Machanics article in the late 70's around the first fuel crunch. It was awesome!

Basically it was a 1/4" boiler plate octagon (or pentagon? Cant remember, been too long) with a door on the narrow end with a squirrel cage on the base of the stove pipe with ductwork that we ran parralel to our chimney stack with an outlet register on each floor of our little 2 story cape home. It was big enough to hold a 36" long log, and it would burn all night on one log and keep the whole house toasty warm with clean forced hot air, while the smoke went out the stack. I wish I still had the article. I

Eric

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #29 on:** January 15, 2010, 12:40:42 AM »

Recent experience-I have a Toyotomia KeroSun Omni 105 19,000 BTU heater, that I thought was all worn out also. Just replaced the wick, and it is good as new. My shop isnt insulated, but heats it up pretty well. I imagine it would be really toasty if the place was insulated! I used it a few days ago when it was sub-freezing,took a while to be bearable, but definitely did the job well enough to make some progress. Now if Kerosene wasn't so dadgum expensive!(IIRC, around 7-8$ a gallon at our local ACE hdwr center...)

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #30 on:** January 15, 2010, 02:18:05 AM »

Randy,
I don't know if you remember or not, but I'm an HVAC contractor. Feel free to give me a call about any thing you might have questions about. There have been a few good suggestions posted here (and a few stupid ones). Heating a shop is a lot different than heating a house. You're looking for different requirements in a shop enviroment.
I might even have an idea for you that hasn't been suggested here yet.

www.clintonsac.com/

BillLee · « **Reply #31 on:** January 15, 2010, 04:03:36 AM »

Whatever you decide, make sure that the combustion products are vented OUTside and not into the room.

And I would seriously consider a closed circulation burner system where the air for combustion is taken from outside and the exhaust gasses vented back outside. We have too much in our shops that can be ignited with an open flame. Not to mention that the combustion gasses (CO2 and H2O if running correctly, but CO is often an unwelcome and likely components as well) can create a bad environment. (CO will kill you as will too high CO2, and H2O will rust everything in sight.)

Regards,

Bill Lee

PS: Workshop #1: basement with back at ground level and two large windows. Never gets below 62-63 degrees in winter and 80 in summer. 1-1/2 ton AC with built-in electric heat. Will warm up or cool down the 400 sq.ft. shop in 5 minutes.

Workshop #2: The end of an unheated 60'x50' steel building. Hot in the summer, cold in the winter. And ALWAYS 100 yards from the house!

Try not to do any building up there anymore, but that's where the Model A and the RV are stored.

Pinecone · « **Reply #32 on:** January 15, 2010, 12:42:37 PM »

The neatest setup is the IR heaters. The long pipes that radiate IR to heat up everything in the space. Normally powered by gas.

You can get them through Grainger and other sources.

dave shirley jr · « **Reply #33 on:** January 15, 2010, 02:13:40 PM »

Clint,
since you are probably the most knowledgable guy on here regarding HVAC
what about giving us all a recomendation for a standard two car garage type of setup.
i have been using one of those big kerosene heaters for severall years and it works fine but everything including me smells like kerosene after being out ther for a few hours
Dave jr.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #34 on:** January 15, 2010, 03:32:19 PM »

Most of what I know about heating with a kerosene heater I've discovered the hard way. After 5 years of supplementing the propane furnace in my shop with kerosene and listening to a good friend has taught me a few things.

First, find a local gas station that has kerosene at the pump. The ones that do will have a sign and are more prevalent in rural areas. We pay between $3.00 and $4.00 a gallon at a gas station but you need to have your own containers. This beats the heck out of $30.00 for 5 gallons at the farm/home/hardware stores.

Baring that, look in the phone book for oil distributors and make a few phone calls. Before we found the gas station we were buying it from an oil company in 5 gallon containers for about $20.00. Haven't figured out how to find a gas station with kerosene without driving by and seeing a sign. Thinking about calling a few oil distributors to see if I can find who delivers to the stations and see if they will tell me who they deliver to, might be worth a shot.

I've never done it but jet fuel is kerosene. If you have a smaller airport that will sell you jet fuel you will have to take a funnel and containers. The jet fuel pump nozzles are usually too large to fit in the spout of your container. I heard this to keep people from putting JP5 in a piston airplane. Around here jet fuel is the same price as gas station kerosene so never thought it was worth the hassle.

If you can smell the heater something isn't right, it's either turned down too low or up too high. Bet anyone here can walk into my shop and not be able to tell me if I have the kero heater fired up or not. Only time I get a whiff at all is when I light it and when I shut it off.

When I first started, every time my heater would get hard to light I would buy a new wick. Usually replaced the wick a couple times a year. Then a good friend told me when it does that just let it burn completely out of kerosene. This must burn some deposits off the wick as the wick I'm now using is two years old and still working fine. I didn't receive an instruction book with my heater as it was used when I got it but my friend said this is what his book says to do.

The burn down does make a little smoke during it's last minutes so if you are sensitive to the smell just sit it outside when it starts looking like it's close to empty.

Thought this might help some of you heating with kerosene,

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #35 on:** January 15, 2010, 04:39:51 PM »

Quote from: dave shirley jr on January 15, 2010, 02:13:40 PM

Clint,
since you are probably the most knowledgable guy on here regarding HVAC
what about giving us all a recommendation for a standard two car garage type of setup.

Dave jr.

Dave, I wish there was a good answer that would work for everybody. Too many variables to satisfy. However, if it was my two car garage, a gas wall furnace is hard to beat. Simple to install and vent outside (especially in a garage where the water heater is likely to be), low cost, heats very quickly, and takes up almost no space. But it does have an open flame which means no painting with it on. There is going to be upsides and downsides to every option.
Most garages are not wired with enough amps to handle any serious electric heater. Most of the off the shelf portable heaters are about 1500 watts max. That's not a lot of heat for a two car garage, even if you used two of them. But plug in more than that and you're going to start popping circut breakers or fuses. So, while there are electric systems that will work, some circut upgrades will usually be in order.
Systems that have some type of airflow fan such as through the wall or split system heat pumps would heat and cool the best, but do require constant vigilance on keeping the system clean. The fine balsa dust we create will wreak havac on these things. But if you can deal with that, the plus side is no flame, so perfectly safe when painting.
There is also the question of how fast you need the place to heat up. Can you leave the heat on all the time? Or, do you just turn it on when you go out there? Most electric systems are going to be slower than gas systems (I said "most", but not all). Of course, all this relates again to cost.
What I cannot recommend is unvented gas systems in a closed enviroment. That includes Nat gat, LP (propane), and kerosene type heaters like the "Mr. Heater". Those are for outdoor heating in a well vented area, so don't risk it.
I cannot possibly address all the options in one post, so if there are systems you want to know about ask me.

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #36 on:** January 15, 2010, 04:50:19 PM »

Quote from: Pinecone on January 15, 2010, 12:42:37 PM

The neatest setup is the IR heaters. The long pipes that radiate IR to heat up everything in the space. Normally powered by gas.

You can get them through Grainger and other sources.

Just noticed this post.

Yes Infared heaters work great, very hot, and hung in the right place they heat pretty evenly. Down side is they still have an unvented open flame (more or less) and require quite a bit of pipe work for the gas supply.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #37 on:** January 15, 2010, 11:02:59 PM »

>>...and require quite a bit of pipe work for the gas supply. <<

Well, this is why I'm shy of using a propane heater. My shop is on the second floor. I'd have to put a tank outside and would need quite a bit of pipe to run it upstairs and into the shop. I suspect that in the end I will look at an electric furnace, but I'm not thrilled about what that will do to my electric. While propane and kerosene are pretty cheap up here (relatively), electricity is pretty expensive per kilowatt hour. But it is probably the best way to go.

Clint Ormosen · « **Reply #38 on:** January 16, 2010, 12:05:08 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 15, 2010, 11:02:59 PM

While propane and kerosene are pretty cheap up here (relatively), electricity is pretty expensive per kilowatt hour. But it is probably the best way to go.

Yup, electricity is expensive. But electric heat is 100% efficient.

BillLee · « **Reply #39 on:** January 16, 2010, 03:05:27 PM »

Quote from: Clint Ormosen on January 16, 2010, 12:05:08 PM

Yup, electricity is expensive. But electric heat is 100% efficient.

And what is the % efficiency in generating the electricity?

There's a reason the most expensive way to heat is with electricity.

Regards,

Bill Lee

Wayne Collier · « **Reply #40 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:30:24 PM »

Quote from: BillLee on January 16, 2010, 03:05:27 PM

And what is the % efficiency in generating the electricity?

I'm guessing its much more efficient than a Mr. Heater on top of a propane bottle. Especially if you consider the energy used in producing and "bottling" the propane. I'm guessing it is also more efficient than a kerosene heater if you consider the energy used in kerosene production and distribution. I wouldn't be surprised if electricity even proved more efficient than a traditional fireplace.

There is a reason that some (smaller) steel mills have gone to electric furnaces.

Herb Calvin · « **Reply #41 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:35:56 PM »

Wal-mart near us gets $22.00 a gal. About 3 miles away I buy it for $2.99 a gal plus tax

Randy Powell · « **Reply #42 on:** January 16, 2010, 10:41:57 PM »

>>There's a reason the most expensive way to heat is with electricity. <<

Well, up here is largely hydro-electric. They charge as much as they do because they can. Much like gasoline. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't cost them $2.89 a gallon to produce (current rate at the pump around here right now) even if you consider a reasonable profit. Gasoline is one of those commodities that the cost of production and distribution has zero to do with the cost to consumer. Electricity is much the same. It's all about supply, demand and how you can limit the resource to make it scarce.

Sigh...

I'll go with an electric furnace this summer, I imagine. But for now, it will be kerosene.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #43 on:** January 16, 2010, 11:59:00 PM »

so Randy, did all that discussion help you decide?
we did miss talking about electric cars,, and fuel cells,, and water storage solar heat exchangers

Pinecone · « **Reply #44 on:** January 17, 2010, 02:21:01 PM »

A couple of things.

If you use ANY form of combustion heating, put a carbon monoxide alarm in the space. They are cheap. Although CO is not a huge problem when you are awake as the blinding headache will normally clue you. But a CO alarm is best.

A lot depends on how well insulated your space is. Also, do you want to keep it warm, or just warm it up to work.

My garage/shop is a freestanding 1000 sqaure foot building. I had it stick built, as it was about the same price as a metal pole building. So it has R30 in the ceiling and R15 in the walls.

As I have mentioned before, I had a heat pump installed. That way I have cooling in the summer also. In the winter, I hold the garage/shop at 50 when I am not working. When I am working, I bump it up to 60 - 65. I use a round kerosene heater to help bring up the heat faster. For the weekend, I normally leave the heat up from Fri evening through Sun evening. But I run the kerosene heater for a short period to bring the temp up, then shut it off.

Ceiling fans really help the heating, as hot air rises, so you end up with the ceiling at 80 and the floor at 60. eiling fans mixes so you get even warmth. I have fans from Harbor Freight on a light dimmer, so I can vary the speed.

And as I have mentioned before, NO heating with flame or catalyitc when painting.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #45 on:** January 18, 2010, 06:55:45 AM »

I started out with electric heat in my shop. Had a portable unit I would fire up as when the temps were below freezing the heater couldn't do the job. It was rated for 1200 Sq ft. There is insulation in the floor, the walls and the ceiling as such. There is an insulating foam board with a fireproof layer of material on it. It helps hold the insulation in place I put between the rafters.

Since putting the gas heater in the shop I do not need a back up. I keep it at about 60 degrees. It has a thermostat control that works great. The burner is enclosed and I am on natural gas. I have painted planes with dope in there with no problem so far. When it comes to spraying I go out side when it is warm enough and very little wind. The heater is rated for 2000 sq ft and came from Sutherlands. At the time I bought it, Home Depot and Lowes didn't have any in stock locally. Told it was nsot the season for them yet. In fact the shop is 90% Sutherland material.

Be glad when weather warms up so I can get back out there.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #46 on:** January 21, 2010, 11:39:33 PM »

OK, I caved. I bought a Berko wall mount electric heating unit. Has a thermal cutout and designed for industrial use. 240 volt, 20 amp. 5500 watt, 18000 BTU with fan and thermostat. Clint, if it's a bad choice, please tell be before it ships. It seemed that it was the best I could do with only a 20amp circuit to work with. Says it will heat up to a 700 square foot area. It's a hard wired unit, but it just so happens that is an unusual burst of forethought, I wired in a 20amp, 240 volt line for just such an eventuality when I built the shop. I also picked up the wall mount setup so I wouldn't have to punch a hole in the wall to mount it. That's twice the BTU output of my previous heating system and with the built in fan (along with the ceiling fan I put in last weekend at the suggestion of folks on this thread), I hope that does the job. I can always use the kerosene heater to augment this new unit. I hope to be able to keep the shop at 50 degrees or so. That way it won't take much to crank it up to a liveable 65 when I'm out there. It seem to have good consumer feedback.

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #47 on:** January 22, 2010, 12:26:45 AM »

Great news! Now you can get back on that Deluxe RM!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #48 on:** January 22, 2010, 10:35:10 AM »

Richard,

Yes Sir <Randy Salutes>

I decided to go back and actually fix some stuff on the new PA plane, so the RMD is still a stack of wood. But I hope to really start it this weekend. We'll see.

Howard Rush · « **Reply #49 on:** January 22, 2010, 01:00:12 PM »

Quote from: BillLee on January 15, 2010, 04:03:36 AM

Whatever you decide, make sure that the combustion products are vented OUTside and not into the room.

Are you saying that 60 million Englishmen (and women) are wrong?

Author Topic: Heating suggestions (Read 12737 times)

Dwayne

Eric Viglione