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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: AT1984 on June 16, 2011, 07:57:08 AM
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Does anyone have any experience with the Hangar 9 PT 19 RTF "Trainer" for a newby? Just trying to get some opinions. Wanting to start C/L as a new hobby.
Thanks!
Allen Tucker
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A friend of mine bought one last summer and has had very good luck with it. The engine ran very nice right out of the box and it flies very nice being able to do basic stunts. It has a small tank which ran about 4 minutes which is fine for new fliers. I think that the tank change was the only change he has made. rumors have it that the Evo 36 was a hit or miss for running but this one we ran one tank through it on the ground and then flew it. The propeller which was a three blade did not work well but we found an APC 10 X 5 that did work well.
Don
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The complete story.
http://hangarflying.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wire&action=display&thread=2880
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Maybe Dan McEntee will jump on this as his was the first one I seen fly. Almost bought one as it reminded me of the Cox PT-19. H^^
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I know that Gene Martine had one, it looked like it flew pretty well.
Derek
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Thanks for the replies.
I had read the thread on proboards about the crash...that was written before the problem was found with the pushrod. I would hope that's been fixed in the newer kit issues (?). I know there is a fix on the Hangar 9 site.
Since I have "ZERO" experience, I'll ask about props: What difference would the 3 blade have over a 2 blade? Faster? Am I learning ANYthing? ;D
Thanks again!
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These puppy's will stunt.
Check out Dan and Mike at Brodaks last year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g-9MvPct3Y
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I had read the thread on proboards about the crash...that was written before the problem was found with the pushrod. I would hope that's been fixed in the newer kit issues (?). I know there is a fix on the Hangar 9 site.
Keep in mind, too, that the crash was a cooperative effort between pilot and plane.
I'm not all _that_ experienced, but when you get into trouble inverted you pretty much want to grit your teeth and land inverted unless you're waaaay up there.
Since I have "ZERO" experience, I'll ask about props: What difference would the 3 blade have over a 2 blade? Faster?
All else being equal -- uh, wait -- all else never is equal.
If you put on a 10-5 3-blader in place of a 10-5 two blader, and all the blades are alike, then the 3-blader will load the motor more. If the motor doesn't bog down from it, it'll produce more thrust (note the "if"). If that 10-5 two-blader was the right prop, then the three-blader will probably make the whole assembly sick.
Two blade props give you more thrust for the power (generally), are a lot cheaper (generally), and need to be bigger diameter for the pitch to load the motor the same (generally). It's actually the bigger blade disk that gives you the higher thrust efficiency -- but at the same time, you're reducing your ground clearance.
In the absence of guidance from experts, I would get a handful of two-bladers that seem to be roughly equivalent to your three-blade prop, with varying diameters and pitch. Then I'd experiment to see which works best.
But if you're an absolute newbie, I'd recommend that you just fly the plane as designed at first, and do the refinements when you're a bit better.
Am I learning ANYthing? ;D
Yes, but you need to get out and fly!!
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The 3 blader supplied with the model is a training prop, a speed limiter. You are better off with a 2 blader.
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Paul,
I saw the video on the Hangar 9 site (maybe it's the same one? I'm at work, so no YouTube), and thought: Man, that thing is doing loops and (I Think) a figure 8...and flew inverted. I wouldn't try that on the first day, but it looks like it's quite capable. I'm just trying to figure out where to start. A Deweybird, Cox engine, and all the associated "start up" equipment would be the same cost as this plane...but the Deweybird is solid, and *might* be more forgiving in the inevitable newby crash. Decisions, decisions. I've had advice telling me to go both directions (sigh). I think it might be easier to replace a Deweybird, than the PT 19, but what do I know? ???
Tim: I know I need to get out and fly...and I'm an absolute "Newby". First, I need to get a plane so I CAN fly!!! ;D I can worry about props after I make a couple of splinter piles, right? Haha...
Thanks for the replies.
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The nice thing about lots of conflicting advice is that you can choose what you wanted to do anyway, and still be following advice!
A built-up plane with a 36 in it will be easier to fly. They fly better, they handle wind better, and because the lines are long they go around the circle slower and you don't get as dizzy. And -- big planes are what you graduate to when you're done playing around with little ones*.
A little all-solid Cox powered thing will be less expensive. You can built plane #2 from the kit plans and some balsa from your local hobby or craft store for a few bucks, you'll burn a tablespoon of fuel each flight instead of half a cup, and you can fly it in a smaller spot. If you have to replace the whole plane it'll be way less expensive than a PT-19, and learning stunt is flat out tempting the ground to rise up and smite your airplane, hard.
I wouldn't want to steer you away from either option, but I hope the above helps you figure out what's best for you.
* I'm gonna get flak for that comment, I know it.
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The little ones...Ha. My luck, plus no experience equals a splinter pile, anyway! I'll figure it out.
Here's a pure newb question: What does "1/2 A" stand for?
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Here's a pure newb question: What does "1/2 A" stand for?
Competition classes. From the 2011-2012 AMA Rule Book for outdoor free flight:
3. Classification. FF power models are divided
into land plane and seaplane categories. The
following events have been established
according to piston displacement of engine(s) in
each category:
101 Class 1/2A: .000-.0504 Cubic Inch
102 Class A: .0505-.2000 Cubic Inch
103 Class B: .201-.300 Cubic Inch
104 Class C: .301-.400 Cubic Inch
105 Class D: .401-.670 Cubic Inch
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So...the Evo .36CL that comes in the PT 19 would make that a "Class C"? And 1/2A is a Cox/Fox "small" engine?
I'm no math wiz, and those decimals through me off sometimes!
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I don't think that anyone (except for free flight and speed fliers) cares much about engine displacement classes. But "1/2-A" has kind of stuck as a name for "really small engine".
The Cox engine is an 049, or about 1/20 of a cubic inch. I don't think Fox makes a 1/2-A engine any more, but Norvel and AP Wasp make 1/2-A engines and almost 1/2-A (061, which is 1cc).
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From Tim: A built-up plane with a 36 in it will be easier to fly. They fly better, they handle wind better, and because the lines are long they go around the circle slower and you don't get as dizzy.
I don't know. My Ringmaster Deluxe profile flies pretty well in wind. ;D
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From Tim: A built-up plane with a 36 in it will be easier to fly. They fly better, they handle wind better, and because the lines are long they go around the circle slower and you don't get as dizzy.
I don't know. My Ringmaster Deluxe profile flies pretty well in wind. ;D
Than a 1/2-A powered all solid plane, smart a**. And the wing is pretty "built up".
Be careful, or I'm going to dress up like Mark Scarborough and tell you I've decided I want to fly that plane after all! Then we'll get in to the "ease of repair" part of the discussion.
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Sorry, my mistake. LL~
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I need to get a plane, and hook up with someone in the general area this summer...
Thanks, again for the replies/advice!
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Looked at AT1984's profile and noticed that he (Allen) is in Spanaway, WA. Pete Peterson is close to you, just N. of 512 a bit. Randy's in Wildwood (near Port Orchard), Tim in Oregon City (SE of Portland), and I'm in Renton (SE of Seattle).
So, my 1st question is, can you already fly CL at all? If not, I'd suggest getting a SIG Skyray 35 kit and an OS .25LA-S. If you have flown CL even a little, I'd still suggest the Skyray/.25. I have one in my garage that's not busy, but I don't want to sell the engine. Get a .25LA-S and we'll get you in the air real soon.
With a little dual instruction on the club (NW Skyraiders) trainer and a cautious approach with the Skyray, you'll be flying the Beginner pattern by the end of the flying season. The hobby shop in Parkland should be able to connect you with what you need, and Pete is generally available for consultation. All of us will respond to questions by email, PM or phone, I suspect. Welcome aboard! H^^ Steve
2nd question...did you happen to be among the fence hangers at Stuntathon last weekend at Thun Field? We were all there...were you? H^^ Steve
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I have no experience whatsoever in C/L...But I sure am interested! I need a new hobby, and don't want to mess with R/C.
I've been to Hobbytown (Parkland), but that was for model (car) supplies. Didn't check out any Aircraft stuff, back then.
I was at the StuntAThon...I met Randy Powell, Mark Scarborough, and Dan Rutherford. All were pretty busy flying, so I didn't get much of a chance to ask a whole lot of questions.
Thanks for all the replies, and help!
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Paul,
I saw the video on the Hangar 9 site (maybe it's the same one? I'm at work, so no YouTube), and thought: Man, that thing is doing loops and (I Think) a figure 8...and flew inverted. I wouldn't try that on the first day, but it looks like it's quite capable. I'm just trying to figure out where to start. A Deweybird, Cox engine, and all the associated "start up" equipment would be the same cost as this plane...but the Deweybird is solid, and *might* be more forgiving in the inevitable newby crash. Decisions, decisions. I've had advice telling me to go both directions (sigh). I think it might be easier to replace a Deweybird, than the PT 19, but what do I know? ???
Tim: I know I need to get out and fly...and I'm an absolute "Newby". First, I need to get a plane so I CAN fly!!! ;D I can worry about props after I make a couple of splinter piles, right? Haha...
Thanks for the replies.
Don't think you saw my youtube video on the Hangar 9 web site. It is Dan Banjock and Mike Palko at Brodaks last year flying double stunt.
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Allen,
I'm in the PAMPA directory. Call any time with questions or email me. We fly at Tacoma Narrows airport (It seem mostly there now). You are most welcome to join us.
Tim,
You can't dress up like Mark unless you stand on a box. ;D
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Paul,
Hadn't seen that video. Wow! Thanks!
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I'm in the PAMPA directory. Call any time with questions or email me. We fly at Tacoma Narrows airport (It seem mostly there now). You are most welcome to join us.
I just looked on Mapquest -- as hikes to decent flying fields go, Spanaway to Tacoma Narrows Airport isn't bad at all. Allan -- take Randy up on this.
You can't dress up like Mark unless you stand on a box. ;D
Dang, I knew there was a wrench in the gears somewhere.
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"I think it might be easier to replace a Deweybird, than the PT 19, but what do I know? "
Here's an inexpensive, smaller PT-19 built from the Select Hobbies kit. 36" span, currently using an OS .15. Flies just like a SIG Akromaster on 52' lines. Lots of fun.....John..
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Tim,
I've crossed the bridge lots of times, so it won't be hard to find. I've seen the sign for the airport a million times!
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http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=22056.0
Look at the past pic on the page. I hope I can build better than this... ;)
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http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=22056.0
Look at the past pic on the page. I hope I can build better than this... ;)
Hey I wish I was on that build team. That is a great looking JYW's plane. It is a plane built out of crates. It is a fun event at Brodaks.
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I've flown some pretty good airplanes and some pretty bad airplanes. I would have to say the PT-19 is one of the "pretty bad" airplanes.
On an expert level it may not be great, but that doesn't mean it is good enough for a beginner/intermediate flyer either. The dihedral doesn't help when flying in the wind and it makes aligning the wing in the fuselage more difficult for a beginner. The construction is also fairly weak so it doesn't hold up like a traditional profile during a crash and it also makes repairs harder.
Not to mention it comes out tail heavy if you use anything other than the EVO or want to switch from a tube muffler to a tongue muffler.
I would still tell someone to build a Skyray or Twister or buy a ARF Flight Streak etc....
Mike
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Thanks, Mike. Steve Helmick is hookin' me up with a Skyray...
Allen