Handle Photo for Brett & Bill

[RandySmith]

Hi Brett

This is the handle Bill was referring too. I have used this one for 2 years or so now. I use both this fully ajustable hard point and the cable MNT handle with excellent results, I have sold  many dozens of these, and for my taste  the  MNT  handle is the best one I have ever used. That was the reason I have always stocked these handles to begin with.
The cable ones come in 4 sizes, so the alum. doesn't  bug your hands...the  hard  point  only comes in 2 sizes

Regards
Randy

[don Burke]

After looking at all the pics about handles, these show what I think is wrong with some of the others.  The adjusting bolts go through holes, not a slot.  To me, the slot is an adjustment waiting for a chance to slip!  Excellent design IMO.

[Aaron Little]

I love the handles, Randy got me using them and they really are nice totally adjustable etc me and dad use the cable versions

Randy isn't there a "bar" version out now?

aaron

[Bill Little]

Thanks, Randy.

BTW, Brett, I use the 100, I think that is the largest (at least I use the largest) without my hands getting too cramped, so I think you wouldn't have that trouble at all with that size.

[RandySmith]

I love the handles, Randy got me using them and they really are nice totally adjustable etc me and dad use the cable versions

Randy isn't there a "bar" version out now?

aaron

HI Aaron

Yes your  correct there is also a front bar version of the MNT handle. However I believe these 2 are the best ones of the bunch. I use the cable and hard point on the same plane with good results, both are fully adjustable

Randy

[Brett Buck]

Thanks, Randy.

BTW, Brett, I use the 100, I think that is the largest (at least I use the largest) without my hands getting too cramped, so I think you wouldn't have that trouble at all with that size.

     I'm sure there is one that is big enough to clear my fingers. Certainly, I'm not in your league when it comes to size but I'm no  little guy (and I'm growing in some axes a lot faster than others...)! 

      My issue was that I think it's very important to have the handle as tight a fit as possible. When I got one that fit my hand correctly (probably an 75 or 80mm) the gap between the face plates let my skin get forced up into the inner edges. It could have been fixed by gluing some balsa in between the sides to fill it up and extend the forward projections, but it wasn't mine so mods weren't possible. It's just a matter of preference, I think, but the "tight on the fingers" thing is one of the thousands of tricks Ted clued me into. You can make a lot of minor corrections by small changes in the tenseness of the finger muscles.

      Brett

[Bill Little]

I agree with the fact about the handle being fairly tight on the fingers.  Slight pressure with the index or pinky does help I have found out.  So I use about as small a handle as I can.  But I am still holding the handle in the first joint of my fingers out on the end when i went to the KAZ..  It fits about like the large Ted handle.  I couldn't even get all my fingers in a Hot Rock for a long time now.  Have to hang my pinky out the bottom! LOL!!!!  (still trying to figure out just what good are fat fingers and hands are at this stage of life! )

[RandySmith]

My issue was that I think it's very important to have the handle as tight a fit as possible. When I got one that fit my hand correctly (probably an 75 or 80mm) the gap between the face plates let my skin get forced up into the inner edges. It could have been fixed by gluing some balsa in between the sides to fill it up and extend the forward projections, but it wasn't mine so mods weren't possible. It's just a matter of preference, I think, but the "tight on the fingers" thing is one of the thousands of tricks Ted clued me into. You can make a lot of minor corrections by small changes in the tenseness of the finger muscles.

      Brett


HI Brett

You are exactly correct, having the handle be a tight fit is absolutely critical , if you want to fly a consistently good pattern.  With a handle that your hand can slide around in the plane will not be steady, and corner exits will suffer, as well as round track.
Plus we all know how much a 1\16 inch adjustment on one leg of the handle will make a huge difference in the "feel" of the handle in relationship to the plane.
 If you have a handle that is not a tight fit on your hand, you can, and most likely will ,pick it up differently many times, this results in a handle that feels like the adjustment has been changed ,just by your hand being closer to the top or bottom. I won't even go into the problems that high winds will have on a handle that is too large.

Regards
Randy

[Ted Fancher]

After looking at all the pics about handles, these show what I think is wrong with some of the others.  The adjusting bolts go through holes, not a slot.  To me, the slot is an adjustment waiting for a chance to slip!  Excellent design IMO.

Don,

While I agree that from a safety/security standpoint the holes are superior to a slot it is, in my opinion, a very mixed blessing.  I'm a firm believer in making the "tools" we employ as close to perfect for their function as possible, thus leaving less room for "human" error in the application of control inputs.  My concern with the holes is that the minimum adjustment available between holes appears to be about 1/8" which is --  again, in my opinion -- way too gross.

The "Ted" handle which I sold for a couple years had a feature that minimized your concerns, although it, too, was imperfect.  The "slot" in which the line clips moved in and out of the handle looked like a caterpillar with four or five holes connected by a smaller slot.  Combined with the plywood slot in which they rode, the allowed the wood to be compressed slightly into the holes when the two locking screws were tightened thus essentially eliminating slip if tightened adequately. The imperfection, of course, was the word "adequately".  If not tightened enough the chance for slippage remained.  If overtightened the ply could be permanently distorted into the caterpillar holes making it difficult too adjust the neutral when you wanted to do so.

Perhaps the ideal would be a "vernier" in and out adjustment utilizing a bolt threaded into the line clip from the back of the handle that would allow infinitely fine adjustment while remaining a fixed immovable fixture when in use. Somebody want to incorporate that?

Ted Fancher

[Bill Ervin]

This handle design combined with a handful of differing length line clips might be a solution.  If those holes are in fact 1/8" on center then having three clips that differ by 1/32" will give you some adjustability, if you need more resolution make seven clips in 1/64" increments.

Or, how about using fewer, but elongated, holes on the metal brackets?  This, combined with the assortment of clips, should give adequate control when trying to find neutral while still allowing for a measure of safety and (maybe more importantly) providing peace of mind.

Bill Ervin

[Brett Buck]

The "Ted" handle which I sold for a couple years had a feature that minimized your concerns, although it, too, was imperfect.  The "slot" in which the line clips moved in and out of the handle looked like a caterpillar with four or five holes connected by a smaller slot.  Combined with the plywood slot in which they rode, the allowed the wood to be compressed slightly into the holes when the two locking screws were tightened thus essentially eliminating slip if tightened adequately. The imperfection, of course, was the word "adequately".  If not tightened enough the chance for slippage remained.  If overtightened the ply could be permanently distorted into the caterpillar holes making it difficult too adjust the neutral when you wanted to do so.

    Key word "adequately" indeed!  I don't know if this story belongs in a handle thread or in "ARFs", but I can't resist. Several anonymous pilots showed up to the "Great ARF - Off" with a model they had assembled, with great difficulty,  just for the occasion. We'll call them "Unknown Pilot #1" and "Unknown Pilot #2". It was "Unknown Pilot #1"'s airplane, so he did the pull tests for both of them. During one of these, shortly before an official flight by "Unknown Pilot #2" they heard a fairly substantial "twang". Everything was inspected carefully and no problems were found.

    "Unknown Pilot #2", who had maybe 6-7 flights on the airplane at the time, did his flight with no real issues and without noticing anything unusual. In fact, it turned out to be the International ARF-Off championship winning flight. "Unknown Pilot #1" , a far more subtle and sensitive guy, also flew his flight and noticed it seemed just a little squirrelly. Nothing very obvious, just not quite right. Eventually, the cause was found - their Ted handle adjustment had slipped and that was what had caused the "twang". It hadn't slipped a little bit, it was on the order of 3/16-1/4"! The amazing thing is that the airplane flew so poorly in other respects that the handle adjustment being off by a HUGE amount couldn't even be detected by ARF-Champ winning pilots.

    Brett